[Gorefest]

Erosion begs to differ.

[Esa1996]

worry, on 03 January 2016 - 10:04 PM, said:

Mount Rushmore took 14 years, and Winds of Winter is gonna be way better than Mount Rushmore. Seems to me like GRRM is ahead of the game.

For now...

[worry]

Good point. Maybe he should rush more on this darn book.

[amphibian]

Here's a left field idea:

Hire "James Corey" (Franck and Abraham) to co-write the books. They can bash out the big sweeps and Martin can focus on the little details.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Gorefest, on 03 January 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

Erosion begs to differ.

not in my lifetime

[Abyss]

amphibian, on 03 January 2016 - 10:45 PM, said:

Here's a left field idea:

Hire "James Corey" (Franck and Abraham) to co-write the books. They can bash out the big sweeps and Martin can focus on the little details.

As "GRRM's assistant" Franck is probably already doing the heavy lifting.



...pun intended.

[amphibian]

I think Mount Rushmore should be demolished.

I also think GRRM made a commitment to keeping the future books different from the show in some substantial manner.

[Maark Abbott]

Gorefest, on 03 January 2016 - 01:02 AM, said:

Jesus wept. I believe I picked up GoT in 1999 or 2000. 16 years. I dread to think how long we will have to wait for part 7 once part 6 finally comes out.

Meanwhile, at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints...

*Scene cuts to Brandon Sanderson laughing evilly from behind a stack of finished manuscripts. Lightning flashes in the background.*

[Aptorian]

amphibian, on 04 January 2016 - 05:14 AM, said:

I think Mount Rushmore should be demolished.

Why?

[Felisin Fatter]

I kinda like it, makes me feel slightly better about my own procrastination that he gets away with it on such a grand scale (Though clearly it still depresses him, so not that positive...)

[Aptorian]

I think people mistake GRRMs lack of progress on SOIAF for procrastination or laziness. The guy doesn't just sit at home watching NFL. From what I have gathered about him over the years, he is travelling a lot, attending various events and he seems to often be working on other projects, either in an editorial or writing capacity. SOIAF isn't the only thing he's worked on for 20 years.

[Ceda Cicero]

I get it, George, there are a lot of assholes out there who are pressuring you and generating clickbait with your name in it. But responses like this just feed the trolls and ultimately end up making him look whiney.

By this point, anyone paying any kind of attention knows that the guy likely has massive ADD, probably struggles with some measure of depression around this whole thing, and just has absolutely zero grip on how to maintain anything like a schedule or pace in light of all the distractions. I'm not joking even a little when I say that he doesn't need "minions" or stricter publishers, he needs a therapist. Or if he already has one, a better therapist.

GRRM lives with his fans and the media in a constantly fluctuating Drama Triangle: https://en.wikipedia...drama_triangle. Posts like this on his Notablog just perpetuate it.

[Aptorian]

So first you dismiss his attempt at directly addressing the issue. His attempt at being honest and straight forward with the fanbase you interpret as whinning.

Then you give your own Web MD diagnosis of the guy and determine that GRRM has ADD, depression, is unable to manage his own life and that he needs a therapist? A person you've never had a conversation with.

Maybe you could throw some personal insults about his sexuality and weight in there while you're checking all those "How to be mean on the internet" check boxes.

[Gust Hubb]

Not surprised, gave up on the series years ago (think after the 3rd or 4th book, can't remember), haven't really watched much of the tv series, and remember the Robert Jordan debacle (see a lot of similarities here).

I am, tho, willing to ride out the Expanse train, seeing the youth and speed of James Corey. The fact GRRM is older and less healthy looking makes me worried about death beating him to the punchline.

[Maark Abbott]

Incidentally my comment about Sanderson does make me wonder if he'll finish this off as well. Probably not as there's a little too much naughty business in GRRM's stuff.

It is disheartening that he's still not finished. I imagine if he came out and just said what the issue was holding him back (like Lynch did with GB2 or 3) people would be more understanding.

[Gorefest]

But that's exactly what he just did, isn't it? I think he's given out as much as he needs to give, without throwing his entire private life and mental state on public message boards. The world is a lot different from 30-40 years ago when GRRM started writing. Back ni the day, you knew about a book coming out when it appeared on the shelf and at the very most a desperate fan would write a letter to the author asking about a progress report. But in this day and it age it seems that even an incredibly frank disclosure as GRRM has just given is not good enough anymore?

[blackzoid]

I don't think the books will ever be done and the show will give us the ending of the series, not the novels. It wont cover every character from the novels but nothings perfect. I think GRRM should announce this and enjoy his later years rather than destroy himself trying to finish 2 books that are stressing him out.
If I was his age and with his wealth, I'd certainly call it quits. The option is there with HBO to tell the ending of the story, so take it.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 04 January 2016 - 02:08 PM

[QuickTidal]

I think if the falling quality in AFFC and ADWD hadn't been an issue (let's face it, only the last 300 or so pages of ADWD were of any real value to moving the story forward in both those books...and even then it didn't push things as far as it should have) then there might be less fan squabbling about it.

For me, AFFC was abysmal and ADWD only better near the end. But the show has gone and shown me that we could skip a whole slew of the Tyrion story (for example) in the books, and send him pretty much right to Dany without losing anything in the process. I think that's a big sticking point for me. Of the stuff from GOT S5 that pushed beyond what GRRM had written in the books...none of it feels like it needed to take as long as it did.

The other issue seems to be (and I could be wrong) GRRM's belief in his own work and his perfectionism (or lack of faith?). He's been known to toss out whole sections of multiple chapters and storylines that he wrote and revise them because he felt they didn't work. I know revising isn't fun, but chucking whole sections out seems entirely counterproductive (especially when he's ostensibly been able to tell Benioff and Weis the story's climax and ending in short form...so it obviously exists in his head as an outline) to getting the thing written down. I recall the story of why AFFC was split into AFFC and ADWD was because it had become too big for one volume...but that the "good news" was that more than half of ADWD was written when AFFC was handed in. But we know that between AFFC and ADWD was something like 6 years (2005-2011)...so I'm fairly sure that what he HAD said was already written for ADWD was largely chucked and rewritten from scratch (there is no other real explanation, half a book doesn't take 6 years). I'm sure that somewhere in there is the truth about what exactly causes him to write thousands of words and then change entire storylines. I don't think we as readers have any right to demand to know anything about why...but I fully think that's a big part of what's going on here. He's totally writing...but his revisions are like an OCD itch that he can't scratch enough (I suffer from this when writing, so I know it too) and things gets adjusted, and adjusted, and adjusted.

[Ceda Cicero]

Apt, on 04 January 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

So first you dismiss his attempt at directly addressing the issue. His attempt at being honest and straight forward with the fanbase you interpret as whinning.

Then you give your own Web MD diagnosis of the guy and determine that GRRM has ADD, depression, is unable to manage his own life and that he needs a therapist? A person you've never had a conversation with.

Maybe you could throw some personal insults about his sexuality and weight in there while you're checking all those "How to be mean on the internet" check boxes.

Whoa Mr. Defensive, hold the phone. Are you the same Apt that on the previous page of this thread discussed how "appalling" you find GRRM's work ethic? Why are you suddenly such an apologist? First off, I'm not dismissing his attempt at directly addressing the issue—I just don't think it'll do any good at all and is the equivalent of feeding the trolls.

If anything, my perspective and argument here is actually more merciful and empathetic than yours. I'm saying the guy seems to be hurting and struggling. This cycle has been going on for years with GRRM. This blog post was the first of its kind about TWoW, but one of hundreds of its kind he's made over the years. So no, I'm not an expert and no, I've never had a conversation with the guy, but I do think something slightly more complicated is going on than your reductive (and in my opinion far more "mean") assertion that his work ethic is intrinsically flawed.

Also, for what it's worth, I think pretty much anyone could benefit from a little therapy and to my mind suggesting that someone could use a therapist isn't loaded with the kind of judgment that you seem to think it is. Seriously, I guess at a second glance I could see you'd think I was being mean by throwing around terms like ADD and depression, but I wasn't doing it vindictively. GRRM himself said in his blog post he's slumped into depressive states over this. It's not being mean to extrapolate and infer.

This post has been edited by Ceda Cicero: 04 January 2016 - 02:54 PM

[Spoilsport Stonny]

This whole thing is about money plain and simple. The longer he takes, the more money he makes for himself, the publishers and HBO. It's brilliant, really, because HBO can just make miniseries seasons of ASOIF backstory until the whole written series is done (there are countless stories to be told that have been hinted at), and GRRM can milk conventions, speaking engagements, interviews, licensing, etc. etc. until all is said and done and he's eaten his last ham sandwich. I have no doubt that revenue is the driving factor underlying the massive amount of time between book releases, and is the impetus for the series being lengthened.

Even if he dies, he has close enough relationships with people who could finish the series for him, and we all know there is precedent for this being successful. GRRM probably sees the success as a legacy he deserves, having watched his contemporaries succeed while he slogged away unnoticed writing anti-war science fiction and serial televised fantasy romance.

In the meantime we have a whole cottage industry of theorists, forums, bar trivia nights, LARPing, cosplay, tattoos, people naming kids and dogs after characters, the show being the centerpiece for HBO's decision to buck the cable oligopolies and strike out on their digital ownselves...ASOIF and to a greater extent, Game of Thrones, is no longer the property of the psychotic fantasy readers like ourselves. Its its very own phenomenon and will likely be stretched to its limits, going so far as to take a Brian Herbert-esque track once the series does finish - and follow the exploits of the ASOIF universe after whatever ends up happening happens.

Still, I'm looking quite forward to it and will probably pre-order it once the release is clearer. I like my release dates like I like my hind quarters: firm.