[Gwynn ap Nudd]

Meanwhile, judge rules it is unconstitutional to prevent 18-20 year olds from buying hand guns.

https://www.msn.com/...uns/ar-AA1b4n7z

The Supreme Court decision in Bruen is going to keep on generating cases like this. But, I suppose that's what Thomas wanted.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

 Gwynn ap Nudd, on 12 May 2023 - 02:42 AM, said:

Meanwhile, judge rules it is unconstitutional to prevent 18-20 year olds from buying hand guns.

https://www.msn.com/...uns/ar-AA1b4n7z

The Supreme Court decision in Bruen is going to keep on generating cases like this. But, I suppose that's what Thomas wanted.

In Philadelphia:

Quote

Arguments were the most commonly identified shooting motive (50% of shootings). [...] for the arrested shooters, [...] and the peak age was in late adolescence and young adulthood (18-30 years old).


Shooting-Review-complete.pdf (phlcouncil.com)

... and there have been shootings this year at multiple subway stations I used to use before the pandemic. Several cases of people running away from shooters and darting down into the subway where their pursuers followed and fired into the crowd....

[HoosierDaddy]

 Tsundoku, on 11 May 2023 - 06:25 AM, said:

One of the differences I have noticed between the USA and other western nations that have at least a modicum of firearm possession and use: most of the rest of use don't fetishise firearms to the extent that what appears to be the vast majority (although is probably "just" a loud significant minority) of Americans do.
Seriously, you'd think their entire identity and penis length is based around it. And the size of their ute, I suppose.

I can't speak to why. It doesn't make sense to me. I know the statistics, I tell people the statistics. They feel they are the exception to the statistics. Also, to be frank I think most of them (at least guys) get off on the illusion of the power it gives them.

Some people collect. Okay, sure. I guess I can understand that. Dangerous hobby you got there. Hope no kids are around. But, if you do it right, okay, whatever.
Some people hoard. Okay, you're Nicodimas and you are going to win the [insert your whatever type] Apocalypse cause of your mad Nostradamus' skills. I get it. You're an idiot, but mostly harmless.
Some people (mostly women) keep them for protection, but don't advertise that fact generally. Okay, I get that.

It's the ones who show up with their gun everywhere that I just can't wrap my head around. Why the fuck do you need a pistol in the grocery store? Why in the world are you packing at a kids baseball game? Probably wants to play hero and like I said above, despite being more likely to hurt themselves or an innocent bystander with that gun, they are the badass Rambo/John Wick exception to the rule.

Til their kid pulls out the gun and accidentally shoots their sister because the 5 minute trip into the store for Coors Light was all the time needed for the improbable but possible to happen.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

 Azath Vitr (D, on 12 May 2023 - 05:25 PM, said:

 Gwynn ap Nudd, on 12 May 2023 - 02:42 AM, said:

Meanwhile, judge rules it is unconstitutional to prevent 18-20 year olds from buying hand guns.

https://www.msn.com/...uns/ar-AA1b4n7z

The Supreme Court decision in Bruen is going to keep on generating cases like this. But, I suppose that's what Thomas wanted.

In Philadelphia:

Quote

Arguments were the most commonly identified shooting motive (50% of shootings). [...] for the arrested shooters, [...] and the peak age was in late adolescence and young adulthood (18-30 years old).

Shooting-Review-complete.pdf (phlcouncil.com)

... and there have been shootings this year at multiple subway stations I used to use before the pandemic. Several cases of people running away from shooters and darting down into the subway where their pursuers followed and fired into the crowd....

To be clear: the 'arguments' category does not include arguments over drug dealing: 'Drug trafficking/transactions was the second most common motivation (18%).'

Quote

"Much of the time, it’s young men using gun violence as a means to resolve disagreements." He said it could come down to something as simple as a dispute over a girl. [...]

"Shootings often occur between individuals or even small groups that have conflicts with each other, but these conflicts aren’t just borne out of disagreements people have at an interpersonal level, they’re really shaped by a context of poverty and disadvantage… Most gun violence researchers know that gun violence is really a symptom of larger inequality."

PolitiFact | What causes most gun violence in Philly

Also, while most of the people arrested for shootings were age 18-30, the vast majority of shooters aren't arrested, so it's possible that they're undercounting older shooters if they're less likely to get caught.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

 HoosierDaddy, on 12 May 2023 - 07:02 PM, said:

 Tsundoku, on 11 May 2023 - 06:25 AM, said:

One of the differences I have noticed between the USA and other western nations that have at least a modicum of firearm possession and use: most of the rest of use don't fetishise firearms to the extent that what appears to be the vast majority (although is probably "just" a loud significant minority) of Americans do.
Seriously, you'd think their entire identity and penis length is based around it. And the size of their ute, I suppose.

It's the ones who show up with their gun everywhere that I just can't wrap my head around. Why the fuck do you need a pistol in the grocery store? Why in the world are you packing at a kids baseball game? Probably wants to play hero and like I said above, despite being more likely to hurt themselves or an innocent bystander with that gun, they are the badass Rambo/John Wick exception to the rule.

Til their kid pulls out the gun and accidentally shoots their sister because the 5 minute trip into the store for Coors Light was all the time needed for the improbable but possible to happen.

It would be interesting if people were forced to go through realistic augmented reality simulations of different scenarios before getting a gun (even though requiring them to actually 'pass' would be 'unconstitutional' in most cases...).

Does having a gun on you make you more likely to survive a mass shooting? By making yourself a target you might actually decrease your chances of surviving (unless cornered...).

[Gorefest]

Not sure about the survival bit, but I am pretty sure that having a gun on you drastically increases the likelihood of ending up in a mass shooting. I think statistics back me up that places where the general public tend to not carry guns in daily life have far fewer mass shootings occurring. Heck, in the UK even the police don't carry guns and the absence of mass shootings here is staggering.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 13 May 2023 - 08:51 AM

[Gorefest]

Holy shit, I regret googling it now:

https://www.gunviole...s/mass-shooting

I thought "let's check how many of these they have each year in the US". I should have asked how many each day. Christ. This is not normal, people.

[Tsundoku]

 Gorefest, on 13 May 2023 - 09:07 AM, said:

This is not normal, people.

It is in America. And millions of people will fight to keep it that way.
There is something very, very sick in the cultural DNA of America that distorts the brain just as much as fundamentalist indoctrination.

[Primateus]

 Tsundoku, on 13 May 2023 - 09:15 AM, said:

 Gorefest, on 13 May 2023 - 09:07 AM, said:

This is not normal, people.

It is in America. And millions of people will fight to keep it that way.
There is something very, very sick in the cultural DNA of America that distorts the brain just as much as fundamentalist indoctrination.

Small price to pay, y'know, for getting that rush when you fire your AR-15 and fondle it afterwards.

[Tsundoku]

 Primateus, on 13 May 2023 - 09:23 AM, said:

 Tsundoku, on 13 May 2023 - 09:15 AM, said:

 Gorefest, on 13 May 2023 - 09:07 AM, said:

This is not normal, people.

It is in America. And millions of people will fight to keep it that way.
There is something very, very sick in the cultural DNA of America that distorts the brain just as much as fundamentalist indoctrination.

Small price to pay, y'know, for getting that rush when you fire your AR-15 and fondle it afterwards.

Funny, I thought the fondling preceded the firing.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

If we were all wearing level IV body armor and carrying assault rifles all the time when outside the home, would there be fewer mass shootings? Or would the death count per mass shooting be lower? Assuming a mass shooting situation in which everyone has an assault rifle and body armor and the shooter is not hiding, will the victims quickly shoot the shooter without shooting more of each other than the shooter would have?

But one problem with this is that the overall number of shootings (and probably mass shootings too) would almost certainly rise. And standard level IV body armor (metal plates generally) leaves plenty of openings. Perhaps people could walk around wearing something like full plate with a level IV helmet with eye slits too small for bullets to pass through, but it would be hard to move around in, and hot (granted, in colder areas people could save some heating costs that way); perhaps robotics could be used to make it into more of a climate-controlled exoskeleton, but that would be even more expensive, and bad for the environment.

Augmented reality simulations might make these questions easier to plausibly answer, though trying to incorporate the psychological differences between a simulation and an actual life-threatening situation might be difficult.

Of course the more realistic scenario (though still not very realistc, I hope) would be everyone having an assault rifle, but no one wearing effective body armor except for the shooter (who might also essentially be hiding).

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Quote

One in five [Americans] (21%) say they have personally been threatened with a gun, a similar share (19%) say a family member was killed by a gun (including death by suicide), and nearly as many (17%) have personally witnessed someone being shot. Smaller shares have personally shot a gun in self-defense (4%) or been injured in a shooting (4%).

In total, about half (54%) of all U.S. adults say they or a family member have ever had one of these experiences.

[...] About a third (35%) have avoided large crowds, such as music festivals, or crowded bars and clubs to protect themselves or their families from the possibility of gun violence. [...] at least one in seven, have avoided using public transit (23%), [...] avoided attending religious services, cultural events or celebrations (15%) [...]

[...] Among parents with guns in their home, about one-third say a gun is stored loaded (32%) or stored in an unlocked location (32%). More than half of parents (61%) say any gun in their homes is stored in the same location as ammunition.

Americans’ Experiences With Gun-Related Violence, Injuries, And Deaths

I'd be counted among the 19% who've had a family member killed by a gun: my grandfather, who I was very close to, committed suicide, but he was still mentally and physically capable enough to successfuly implement other methods, so it most likely didn't ultimately make all that much difference.

[Cause]

 Azath Vitr (D, on 13 May 2023 - 12:38 PM, said:

Quote

One in five [Americans] (21%) say they have personally been threatened with a gun, a similar share (19%) say a family member was killed by a gun (including death by suicide), and nearly as many (17%) have personally witnessed someone being shot. Smaller shares have personally shot a gun in self-defense (4%) or been injured in a shooting (4%).

In total, about half (54%) of all U.S. adults say they or a family member have ever had one of these experiences.

[...] About a third (35%) have avoided large crowds, such as music festivals, or crowded bars and clubs to protect themselves or their families from the possibility of gun violence. [...] at least one in seven, have avoided using public transit (23%), [...] avoided attending religious services, cultural events or celebrations (15%) [...]

[...] Among parents with guns in their home, about one-third say a gun is stored loaded (32%) or stored in an unlocked location (32%). More than half of parents (61%) say any gun in their homes is stored in the same location as ammunition.

Americans’ Experiences With Gun-Related Violence, Injuries, And Deaths

I'd be counted among the 19% who've had a family member killed by a gun: my grandfather, who I was very close to, committed suicide, but he was still mentally and physically capable enough to successfuly implement other methods, so it most likely didn't ultimately make all that much difference.

Ill have to google the statistics to double check but I think it does. Im no expert so I may use wrong terms but I believe the problem comes from suicidal ideation. Depressed people begin to contemplate suicide as being better than the pain they are currently experiencing or as a solution to their problems. The thought enters their consciouncess. Where suicidal ideation I think becomes a more serious problem is when you have pictured in your mind how you will do it. Owning a gun and contemplating suicide by using it is a simpler idea than many alternatives. Though of course you are not wrong that people can choose other means. The suicidal ideation will be worse as well if the gun is a tool you use often. A police officer tuoches their gun everyday, or a person who carried it as EDC for self defence. This compared to say for example most of us dont stand on the ledge of a bridge of every day.

Suicide takes many forms, for some its a mental illness. An actual chemical imbalance in the brain which cant be treated by just words or support even if their life circumstances are fine. For others its brought about by moments of very dark circumstances, these people can be helped, especially if their life circumstances changes for the better. The easy access to a gun in their household however can make that window shorter than otherwise.

Also Suicide by gun is also I believe one of the most effective means of suicide. People sometimes survive other methods and get the help they need as a result or people use methods that are a cry for help and not really meant to be actual suicides.

This post has been edited by Cause: 13 May 2023 - 06:39 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

 Cause, on 13 May 2023 - 06:36 PM, said:

 Azath Vitr (D, on 13 May 2023 - 12:38 PM, said:

Quote

One in five [Americans] (21%) say they have personally been threatened with a gun, a similar share (19%) say a family member was killed by a gun (including death by suicide), and nearly as many (17%) have personally witnessed someone being shot. Smaller shares have personally shot a gun in self-defense (4%) or been injured in a shooting (4%).

In total, about half (54%) of all U.S. adults say they or a family member have ever had one of these experiences.

[...] About a third (35%) have avoided large crowds, such as music festivals, or crowded bars and clubs to protect themselves or their families from the possibility of gun violence. [...] at least one in seven, have avoided using public transit (23%), [...] avoided attending religious services, cultural events or celebrations (15%) [...]

[...] Among parents with guns in their home, about one-third say a gun is stored loaded (32%) or stored in an unlocked location (32%). More than half of parents (61%) say any gun in their homes is stored in the same location as ammunition.

Americans’ Experiences With Gun-Related Violence, Injuries, And Deaths

I'd be counted among the 19% who've had a family member killed by a gun: my grandfather, who I was very close to, committed suicide, but he was still mentally and physically capable enough to successfuly implement other methods, so it most likely didn't ultimately make all that much difference.

Ill have to google the statistics to double check but I think it does. Im no expert so I may use wrong terms but I believe the problem comes from suicidal ideation. Depressed people begin to contemplate suicide as being better than the pain they are currently experiencing or as a solution to their problems. The thought enters their consciouncess. Where suicidal ideation I think becomes a more serious problem is when you have pictured in your mind how you will do it. Owning a gun and contemplating suicide by using it is a simpler idea than many alternatives. Though of course you are not wrong that people can choose other means. The suicidal ideation will be worse as well if the gun is a tool you use often. A police officer tuoches their gun everyday, or a person who carried it as EDC for self defence. This compared to say for example most of us dont stand on the ledge of a bridge of every day.

Suicide takes many forms, for some its a mental illness. An actual chemical imbalance in the brain which cant be treated by just words or support even if their life circumstances are fine. For others its brought about by moments of very dark circumstances, these people can be helped, especially if their life circumstances changes for the better. The easy access to a gun in their household however can make that window shorter than otherwise.

Also Suicide by gun is also I believe one of the most effective means of suicide. People sometimes survive other methods and get the help they need as a result or people use methods that are a cry for help and not really meant to be actual suicides.

In general you're right, the availability of guns makes suicide substantially more likely; but I was referring to his particular case. He had someone buy him the gun a few weeks before he killed himself, so while he claimed it was for self-protection, it was almost certainly for suicide. If medically assisted euthanasia were legal, but required counselling first, he might have been talked out of it; or if not he could have at least had a more pleasant death. (Though making suicide *too* pleasurable might encourage people too much?...) And he was distinguished enough as an engineer (including for the US army during WWII) to be offered a professorship at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, and he still had a workshop in his basement, so probably he would have figured out a way. OTOH he'd gotten to the point where he could no longer follow the plots of audiobooks---though that's more of a short-term memory issue---so IDK for sure. Maybe the added difficulty would have given him more time to reconsider.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Quote

Philadelphia police sources have released photos a man they say is wanted for the killing of a 14-year-old boy who was shot on a SEPTA [ subway] train platform [...] the shooting happened Saturday afternoon, a little after 2 p.m.


This is the third shooting at the 52nd Street SEPTA [subway] station in just the last month and a half.

[...]

"Particularly, more and more people going right for their guns when they don't like something they hear, or they feel disrespected," SEPTA GM and CEO [why does a government service have a CEO? WTF? ...] explained.

"What's happening on SEPTA [Philadelphia public transit] is a microcosm of what's happening in the city, in a larger sense. It's just migrating onto SEPTA"

Pictured: Suspect wanted in fatal SEPTA shooting of 14-year-old boy fled with 4 others, sources say (fox29.com)

Quote

People who experienced trauma and are under stress have a harder time regulating emotions when they feel threatened or that one of their boundary's has been violated, said Sandra Bloom, a psychiatrist and professor at Drexel University's School of Public Health.

"We go from zero to 10," Bloom said. "That's when, if you have a gun, and your finger is on the gun, you're more likely to use it."

While both of Saturday's homicides are still under investigation, Bloom said that she wouldn't be surprised if the original cause of the argument behind many violent incidents is minor.

There are techniques to help people identify their triggers and regulate their emotions, for example Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that helps people "slow down" their thinking when they are upset.

"Most people are not taught how to manage emotions," Bloom said. "They're just taught what you should or shouldn't do. That doesn't help you."

Arguments that turned violent are behind two weekend homicides (inquirer.com)

R/Philadelphia reddit:

Quote

I don't understand why people put these videos all over social media and why these companies aren't better at taking them down.

My cousin got shot two years ago and it caused so much more pain to his siblings that every kid they went to school with was passing around the video on Instagram. And it sucked to see assholes on that sub running their mouths about his killing too.


DasBeatles
It's one of my biggest fears. Dying in the street and people standing around filming me for tiktok

14-year-old boy shot and killed on West Philadelphia SEPTA train platform: officials : philadelphia (reddit.com)

Bing's AI search is still too stupid to count the number of SEPTA [Philadelphia area public transit] shootings this year, but there have been many....

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 14 May 2023 - 04:13 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Here's an example of an argument that led to a shooting:

Quote

“If you turn off the hose again you bastards, I’ll fucking kill you,” Lee angrily shouted, according to court documents. Later that day, Lee found the faucet had been turned off again and[...] returned with a shotgun and shot Gasio in the chest. He then followed Gasio and others into an apartment where he shot Laszlo.

... but not a teenager in Philadelphia, a 73 year old in Australia. Maybe he was listening to drill music?...




Perhaps his eye sight was too far gone to see the disclaimer?...

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Quote

states that have permit-to-purchase laws, [...] essentially a much more thorough background check [...] have significantly lower rates of the occurrence of mass shootings. [...] states that have bans on large capacity magazines [...] have significantly fewer [...] deaths and injuries, when there is a mass shooting.

[...] but mass shooters, or would-be mass shooters, are unlikely to take you up on the offer [of mental health treatment]. They tend to see themselves as the victim of injustice, whether it be at work or at home, or just in society with their group. They want fair treatment—they don’t want the psychological kind, because they don’t see that as a problem in them, it’s a problem in society or other people.

Mass shootings statistics: An expert helps us make sense of the recent increase. (slate.com)

Assuming the 'treatment' is voluntary....

[Maark Abbott]

 Gorefest, on 13 May 2023 - 08:50 AM, said:

Not sure about the survival bit, but I am pretty sure that having a gun on you drastically increases the likelihood of ending up in a mass shooting. I think statistics back me up that places where the general public tend to not carry guns in daily life have far fewer mass shootings occurring. Heck, in the UK even the police don't carry guns and the absence of mass shootings here is staggering.

Well, not usually. I was in Sheffield centre once on a day when Wednesday were at home and United were away, but because there were both teams' fans in the city, the police had MP5s on full show. And quite a lot of them, too. You also see BTP with the G36s down at the station occasionally, though not so much post-Covid.

That said your point stands in the main; gun ownership here is very regulated, hard to obtain and you have to jump through a LOT of hoops to own any piece. Since Dunblane the only mass shooting I can think of is Raoul Moat back in the early 00s. Contrast that to America where it feels like a mass shooting happens every other day...

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

 Maark Abbott, on 16 May 2023 - 07:20 AM, said:

Contrast that to America where it feels like a mass shooting happens every other day...

185/136 ≈ 1.36

List of mass shootings in the United States in 2023

That's the average for the year so far. I think more tend to happen on the weekends.

Days without reported mass shootings in the last two months (in the US):

May: 9th, 8th, 4th (obviously the influence of Star Wars), April: 27th-24th, 19th

Stupid Bing AI won't count the overall number of days this year without a (US) mass shooting, but from glancing over the list, the last two months seem typical.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 16 May 2023 - 12:08 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

 Maark Abbott, on 16 May 2023 - 07:20 AM, said:

Since Dunblane the only mass shooting I can think of is Raoul Moat back in the early 00s.

The UK has had one per year for the last three years (including this one):

Quote

14 January 2023 London, England Euston shooting: Six people were wounded in a shooting near St Aloysius R.C. Church.[1]

24 December 2022 Wallasey, England Wallasey pub shooting: A gunman fired at a busy pub entrance in Wallasey Village, killing one and injuring four.[2]

12 August 2021 Plymouth, England Plymouth shooting: A man killed his mother before leaving the house and randomly shooting people in the street. Five
people were killed and two others were wounded. The shooter committed suicide nearby.[3]

List of mass shootings in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

But only four in the 2010's.

That's going by the 'at least four people shot' definition.