[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

aergern;110561 said:

Potsherd:

"A broken pottery fragment, esp. one of archaeological value."

http://dictionary.reference.com/

Alternate definition: a member of Malazan Forums

[Shryval]

I don't buy the Trygalle Trade Guild, and their original appearance in DH felt like, if not Deus Ex Machina, certainly a stretched plot device. Though I must concede their appearance in BH leads possibly Erikson's best one-liner yet (I'd put the detail in a spolier but I don't know how you do them).

Also the propensity to throw in characters whose "true" identity is left as a deliberate mystery to add to the plot threads - not always a bad thing if he pulls it off like I think he will, it's just after reading Jordan long ago I have become wary of the yet-another-mysterious-stranger device.

[Aptorian]

KarsaBefOrlong;115318 said:

I don't buy the Trygalle Trade Guild, and their original appearance in DH felt like, if not Deus Ex Machina, certainly a stretched plot device. Though I must concede their appearance in BH leads possibly Erikson's best one-liner yet (I'd put the detail in a spolier but I don't know how you do them).

You simply put the text between these brackets [ spoiler] [/spoiler] without the spaces I made before "spoiler"

Spoiler

Did you mean the dead guy that falls of the wagon when they come out of hood's warren?

[Dolorous Menhir]

I'm a little surprised someone would single out the Trygalle as the worst example of a Deus Ex Machina. There is not a shortage of competition there.

[Delat]

In a world where the Gods take an active role in meddling with the inhabitants the concept of Deus Ex Machina is inherent as they stetch chance(Oponn) divine the future... well everyone seems to be able to do that Fiddler included...
Anyway I find the unlikely escapes a guilty pleasure rather than an annoyance, it always made me feel that QB was always on top of everything with an ace up his sleeve.

So I suppose that in many ways the simple fact that SE is ruthless with killing characters rahter than most epic fantasy where the characters manage to never die no matter the odds shows that he doesn't stretch it beyond reason and thus balances it with death. I mean I turn pages to ssee if they can actually make their way of it or are they buying the farm this time.

[Onrack the breakable]

LooseCannon;17868 said:

The only thing that bothers me about his works are that all the soldiers seem to be cookie cutter grizzled veterans in that they have no respect for authority and also don't seem to fear anything. I'm not saying I want to read a ten page account of how a character is scared of an upcoming battle or something but a little more variety between Malazan soldiers and other soldier's personalities would be welcome.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I am the Brucolac, and your sword won't save you. You think you can face me?

I would like to expand on this criticism in the hopes of making it more constructive. To me the worst aspect of this was that alot of charachters started sharing the "grizzled old know it all old fartbag" dialog. It started out with just Fiddler (the original old sack of fart gas) calling all females around "lass" then by House of Chains nearly every male (EXCEPT retard turned genius Karsa Orlong, and maybe Anomander Rake) and alot of females are calling every female in sight "lass". Maybe its being American but to call the women "lass" and not call the men "laddies" seems very patronizing. I'm a man and it insulted me. If I was one of those women being called "lass" by a fartsack like Fiddler, I would hit or slap him so hard his eyes would fly out.

Also, I love/hate Karsa Orlong. It just seems so utterly improbable that an utter idiot (and an utter savage) would suddenly turn into a philosophic genius (who still loves to chop peoples heads off). On the other hand reading about Karsa was alot more interesting than reading about Fiddlers grizzled been-there/done-that cloddish wisdom. Still, even if through magic Karsa's two buddies intellect were added to his- thats not really saying much, and even then it seems like his actual brain couldn't contain it all. Like Noms early comments, "I applaud your swift comprehension giant." (Sarcasm) Although Karsa does have one of my favorite better-than-Conan type lines, something like, "Now witness, while I take this ship."

It seems the dialogs for the various characters just get jumbled up and the idiots are suddenly doing calculus and philosophizing while the geniouses suddenly become grunting fools. Maybe thats due to gods meddling, magic, or not being human, but it seems improbable that so many are idiot/savants.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Reave the Just;127341 said:

Maybe I'm just a miserable git (quite possibly), but I think the Pratchett style humour is becoming too widespread in the dialogue. I don't mind a bit some wit and humour, my personal preference is for a darker tone to the proceedings. I'm afraid I have given up on Bonehunters, which was difficult as I've reads all the others. Perhaps it's me that's changed rather than the books, but it all seems to be a big joke now with most characters seemingly cut from a liberal "dinner party" cloth. Even karsa seems to have developed a soft touch.

That's a reasonable criticism, but I personally like that he mixed it up with some humor. It would get too depressing if everything was always dark. I'm surprised that this bothered you enough to make you quit reading, especially since BH has less humor than MT did.

[bwgan]

Personally I think the humour is important, makes the characters more rounded. Karsa soft?? Just growing up I think.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

karsa thinks more than he used to, and isn't such a meathead anymore. He'll still tear your arms off if you give him reason to though.

[polishgenius]

Karsa was never stupid, he was just brainwashed into not thinking about things in his little village, and once he got out that sort of became impossible.
Also bear in mind that his segment at the beginning of HoC takes place at least a couple of years before the main series, by my reckoning at least.

[Atrate61]

"...blood and bile..."
I just finished re-reading Midnight Tides. Honestly, I don't remember how many times I saw that phrase. It just got to be a bit much.

Cheers,

Atrate61

[tiam]

lol i have also just finished a reread and yes i completely agree. THe humour in MT is what seels it for me. I agree the BH was good but not good on the scale of MOI or even MT. ITs a an odd problem to pin down but i feel seen as its a middle book and everyones leaving 7c i feel as though this was a stage setter for the (surprise surprise) biggest ever convergence

[Keruli]

One thing that really annoys me with the Malazan books is the lack of chapter names and TOC. Makes it impossible to go back and find something in the books.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I don't like named chapters in books. It seems they either give away to much about the events of that chapter, or end up sounding contrived and cheesy. Personal opinion though. It is hard to look something up in these books though. The mythical upcoming encyclopedia should also have an index with page numbers where different characters appear in the series. Although, that would end up being quite long itself. They'd need an index index.

[Keruli]

The way SE is mixing POVs in the chapters, chapter names wouldn't work very well perhaps. It's the price we pay for SE's storytelling style and him wanting to have his own homemade structuring of his books, I guess. But I wish he'd have solved the problem of finding things somehow.

[lopper]

wow----- i really didnt think these books had such a following. by chance i picked up a novel at chapters. the 2nd in the series i believe. now ive read them all except the 1 before bone hunters. i couldnt get into it but im thinkin of reading it anywy. i just got blood flows and the healthy dead in hard cover today and started reading them at work. fluke i found this place but ill continue to read up here, your guys discussions fills in some blank areas that i have read but did not quite grasp. ----- how can i put quotes in here?<---i have figured that out. *sighs*

[Reborn]

My biggest complaint on the serie is how Erikson constantly revives dead characters. In my opinion, dead should stay dead (I love Deadhouse Gates, it is probably the best book in the serie with Midnight Tides -- and perhaps The Bonehunters but I haven't really made up my mind about that book yet-- as its only candidate, but it would have been even better in my eyes had Duiker stayed dead). The lone exception is Rhulad in Midnight Tides, as his constant resurrection is essential for the whole story, and I like that.

It often seems like the characters have rehearsed what they are about to say for hours before actually uttering the words. That some characters have this gift of speaking is reasonable, but that there are so many of them in Erikson's world is unlikely.

I love that he mixes the grim parts of his books with humor, but sometimes, especially in Midnight Tides and The Bonehunters, there is a bit too much humor, which somewhat ruins the atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, I like the humor, it makes for a more varied read, but occasionally there can be a bit too much of it for my taste.

[Abyss]

Re QB and the soldiers trekking thru the desert, i'm pretty sure that had something to do with the fire at YGhatan burning through the warrens there.

Illuyankas;101675 said:

You forget, Abyss had something with the Mules...

And i STILL say Greyfrog's brain-eating massacre in TB was all inspired by ME!

- Abyss, doesn't actually think that, but does get a good laugh out of it.