[Okral Lom]

Looking back, perhaps my wording was a bit strong in the original case (it's not a claim of signalling, merely a mention that it could be). Nevertheless, I think the logic of my case stands.

[Bek Okhan]

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 14 April 2014 - 11:10 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Korabas, on 14 April 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Checking in. I apparently missed the spam part of day 1. Not too bothered really.

There might be something to the Serc situation. After one of you picks at Serc's wording with regards to the Kenshiro's role, and possibly looking for symps, serc posts:

Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

I love RA2 so much. the Soviet briefing chick was hawt.

Now this might be the most blatant signalling to Denul. I find it rather more likely, as one of you mentioned, that the obvious question posed by serc is probably an attempt to draw out some kind of reaction and stir the pot a bit. Serc's worth watching, but not really worth a vote at this point. Too early day 1, too thin of a case.

Also, that game was great.

First you pick out a Serc post that expresses his appreciation for RA2, and you claim that by doing so he is signalling. OK, fair enough that does at least seem plausible.

But then, you proceed to do exactly what Serc just did (talk about how much you liked RA2), having just made the point that doing that implies signalling. It feels as though you were subtly trying to imply that you are a symp: look at me, I just did this behaviour that I claim means I'm signalling!

I think maybe you were trying to catch someone's attention. It could be anyone - possibly Denul (since he made the original RA2 reference), possibly just someone else in the crowd. Since I'm not sure who, I think I'll just get the ball rolling with a vote on you.

Vote Korabas

This post bothers me. Because Korabas clearly said he thinks it is unlikely that Serc's post is signalling, and more likely that Serc is looking for some kind of reaction. It looks like Okral has deliberately misread what Korabas has said, and then to base a vote off that looks seriously suspect.

The point I was trying to make (and perhaps did not articulate so well) was that Korabas points out that Serc's post could be signalling, and then does the same thing himself. I mean, there's no real reason to bring it up otherwise, is there? You underline the second sentence, but I was referring to the first.

Yeah, but the first sentence is modified by the second. Reading only the first sentence removes it from the context of the rest of the post.

I'm confused by the part when you say there is no reason to "bring it up". Bring what up? The signalling? There is no reason to bring up the signalling, in a post about whether the signalling is actually signalling or not? Because that makes no sense.

[Okral Lom]

Bek Okhan, on 14 April 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

The point I was trying to make (and perhaps did not articulate so well) was that Korabas points out that Serc's post could be signalling, and then does the same thing himself. I mean, there's no real reason to bring it up otherwise, is there? You underline the second sentence, but I was referring to the first.

Yeah, but the first sentence is modified by the second. Reading only the first sentence removes it from the context of the rest of the post.

I'm confused by the part when you say there is no reason to "bring it up". Bring what up? The signalling? There is no reason to bring up the signalling, in a post about whether the signalling is actually signalling or not? Because that makes no sense.

What bothered me about it was how disconnected the two parts of the post are. In part 1, he mentions some potential signalling and says it "might be blatant". But then in part 2, he concludes just talks about Serc's role speculation question as the reason why he's not worth voting for as if the signalling aspect was irrelevant. And if the signalling part were irrelevant, why bring it up? The post felt like it was constructed and then jammed together, and then with the RA2 reference at the end it just seemed off to me.

[Bek Okhan]

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 14 April 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

The point I was trying to make (and perhaps did not articulate so well) was that Korabas points out that Serc's post could be signalling, and then does the same thing himself. I mean, there's no real reason to bring it up otherwise, is there? You underline the second sentence, but I was referring to the first.

Yeah, but the first sentence is modified by the second. Reading only the first sentence removes it from the context of the rest of the post.

I'm confused by the part when you say there is no reason to "bring it up". Bring what up? The signalling? There is no reason to bring up the signalling, in a post about whether the signalling is actually signalling or not? Because that makes no sense.

What bothered me about it was how disconnected the two parts of the post are. In part 1, he mentions some potential signalling and says it "might be blatant". But then in part 2, he concludes just talks about Serc's role speculation question as the reason why he's not worth voting for as if the signalling aspect was irrelevant. And if the signalling part were irrelevant, why bring it up? The post felt like it was constructed and then jammed together, and then with the RA2 reference at the end it just seemed off to me.

Interesting. I read it as Korabas using the post to back up his belief that Serc is fishing for information. As potential signalling has already been brought up in this game, it doesn't seem unusual to me to bring it up in this post. The signalling part is then not really irrelevant, if other people are going to use it as proof that Serc is scummy. Korabas is then just pre-empting that argument.

I may be reading it wrong though. I hadn't really considered your interpretation.

[Okral Lom]

Bek Okhan, on 14 April 2014 - 11:49 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 14 April 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

What bothered me about it was how disconnected the two parts of the post are. In part 1, he mentions some potential signalling and says it "might be blatant". But then in part 2, he concludes just talks about Serc's role speculation question as the reason why he's not worth voting for as if the signalling aspect was irrelevant. And if the signalling part were irrelevant, why bring it up? The post felt like it was constructed and then jammed together, and then with the RA2 reference at the end it just seemed off to me.

Interesting. I read it as Korabas using the post to back up his belief that Serc is fishing for information. As potential signalling has already been brought up in this game, it doesn't seem unusual to me to bring it up in this post. The signalling part is then not really irrelevant, if other people are going to use it as proof that Serc is scummy. Korabas is then just pre-empting that argument.

I may be reading it wrong though. I hadn't really considered your interpretation.

Fair enough. It's good to hash these things out. Anything else that stands out to you so far? I feel like we need to get this game moving, and the more cases the merrier!

[Bek Okhan]

Ruse's total inability to contribute anything to the game, even once the srius biznis started looks a bit wonky to me. But he isn't alone in not contributing anything to the game. It's really just the timing that stood out to me.

[Monok Ochem]

Kessobahn, on 14 April 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

2π³÷(√−1×42)^th

Rate that check-in you bored bastards.

Ook, ook, oooook. Eek! Ook.

_____

Spoiler

I think what the monkey meant...

_____

EEEEK!

_____

Spoiler

Really? Ok, Ok. The orangutan, meant was that posting in imaginary values hardly makes a "check in" despite the square root doohicky looking like a check. Did I interpret you correctly my good Librarian?

_____

Ook.

Edit: Ook, ook.

---

Spoiler

He means he's "spoilered" the pictures to not be a bother. Hogfather on a stick man, it's not like anyone cares...
---

EEEK!

This post has been edited by Monok Ochem: 15 April 2014 - 01:37 AM

[Monok Ochem]

Oook, ook, ook.

Ook.

OOOK, eeek. Ook

Oook.

----

Spoiler

I've got this one Master Ridcully, sir. What the Librarian is trying to say is that the response to the vote on Master Korabas was a little sudden and aggressive. The Librarian is not so sure that at this stage of Day 1 "antics" such a case should garner such heat.

Spoiler

Now Librarian, I also thought that Master Tiamatha also seemed particularly aggressive as well...

Eek!

Spoiler

Well that is true too. There does seem to be an awful lot of odd behavior, but I do think that such serious individuals are going a little above and beyond at this point, as if compensating for...

OOOHHH AAHHH OOHHHH!!!

Ook.

Spoiler

No no! Not like that. Good heavens, this game is already far too, too, um, charged for my liking. What I'm saying is that Master Tiamatha seems to be jumping the musket, so to speak.

Eek.

Spoiler

Well, I just wanted to put in my two cents.

[Bek Okhan]

That is going to get old very quickly.

[Okral Lom]

Bek Okhan, on 15 April 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

That is going to get old very quickly.

Maybe, but it's much better than people who check in and then don't post anything (I'm looking at you Kessobahn, Ampelas and Ruse). For all that I voted for Korabas, at least he was good enough to post something more substantial than "Checking in".

[Bek Okhan]

Okral Lom, on 15 April 2014 - 02:34 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 15 April 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

That is going to get old very quickly.

Maybe, but it's much better than people who check in and then don't post anything (I'm looking at you Kessobahn, Ampelas and Ruse). For all that I voted for Korabas, at least he was good enough to post something more substantial than "Checking in".

Quite frankly, I'd prefer the 'checking in and leaving again' player than the one that spouts nonsense.

[Eloth]

So, the most interesting thing to me so far is how the Serc thing has turned into a Korabas thing. Neither are really strong on their own but the transition is interesting. Serc is called out for potential signalling, people comment on it some, and then Korabas says this:

Korabas, on 14 April 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Checking in. I apparently missed the spam part of day 1. Not too bothered really.

There might be something to the Serc situation. After one of you picks at Serc's wording with regards to the Kenshiro's role, and possibly looking for symps, serc posts:

Serc, on 14 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Her name is Yuri and she looks like this:

Spoiler

I love RA2 so much. the Soviet briefing chick was hawt.

Now this might be the most blatant signalling to Denul. I find it rather more likely, as one of you mentioned, that the obvious question posed by serc is probably an attempt to draw out some kind of reaction and stir the pot a bit. Serc's worth watching, but not really worth a vote at this point. Too early day 1, too thin of a case.

Also, that game was great.

Now, there is something definitely off about this post. It reads weird. And I think that is why Bek and Okral went back and forth on it for so long - it supports what both of them are saying by contradicting itself. I highlighted the "pro-signalling" comments in blue and the "anti-signalling" comments in red. Korabas says on the one hand, "I see blatant signalling from Serc to Denul [insert quote]", and then backs off and says "But really it's more likely that Serc is just messing around so he isn't worth voting".

I am curious though - Okral, I agree that the Korabas post looks like sympage, but why did you link Serc to Korabas via RA2 and then say you have no idea who Korabas might be symping? I mean, the simplest answer was that he was attempting to contribute to the discussion (although unfortunately he gave two completely different opinions in the space of three or four sentences) - but in reality, attention was drawn away from Serc, which is exactly what symps are supposed to do. Serc was long gone just two hours after he arrived and said "good morning" and hasn't returned in the ten hours since.

So Korabas definitely looks scummy with his one and only post that contradicts itself a lot, but the vote on Korabas shifted the heat from Serc almost instantly. There is a post or two from Okral that could make me think he was deflecting, but it's just a minor ping on the scumdar at the moment.

Anyway, what I am curious about is why Okral was so sure that Korabas wasn't symping Serc if that was the reasoning behind his vote.

[Eloth]

Bek Okhan, on 15 April 2014 - 02:48 AM, said:

Okral Lom, on 15 April 2014 - 02:34 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 15 April 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

That is going to get old very quickly.

Maybe, but it's much better than people who check in and then don't post anything (I'm looking at you Kessobahn, Ampelas and Ruse). For all that I voted for Korabas, at least he was good enough to post something more substantial than "Checking in".

Quite frankly, I'd prefer the 'checking in and leaving again' player than the one that spouts nonsense.

Totally agree.

[Monok Ochem]

Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 15 April 2014 - 02:48 AM, said:

Okral Lom, on 15 April 2014 - 02:34 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 15 April 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

That is going to get old very quickly.

Maybe, but it's much better than people who check in and then don't post anything (I'm looking at you Kessobahn, Ampelas and Ruse). For all that I voted for Korabas, at least he was good enough to post something more substantial than "Checking in".

Quite frankly, I'd prefer the 'checking in and leaving again' player than the one that spouts nonsense.

Totally agree.

Oook.

[Eloth]

Ok, so maybe that's a little harsh. But I still don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I'm gonna eat, be around later.

[Monok Ochem]

Ook, Ooook, ook. Eek!

Spoiler

: Alright, alright already you bloody monkey!

EEEEK!

Spoiler

: Bloody hell! Ok. So here's the thing gentlemen. The Librarian is the leading the show here, but since text does not carry inflections all that well, we've been dragged in. So you'll just have to suffer through this peanut gallery. Sorry.

Spoiler

: Now, what he wanted to express is that from the history of past games, signalling cases are kind of in a hang up, so to speak. They can't be discounted because of a couple of games back, but given that bloke Tatt's show last game, we all have to be wary. Now, seems to me, and the Librarian, that there is two sides to this coin, so to speak. We got a group really looking mean and hard into that Serc fellow, but harder in to his so called "symp" Korabas, or maybe that was Denul being the ringleader, I'm already getting turned around.

Spoiler

: But here's the thing gentlemen: that Korabas fellow puts a little too much weightiness on the Serc "situation" to be trying to interrupt the show. The lack of conviction in that wishy-washy post itself is the problem, and I'll bet bananas to peanuts that the people playing up that post are more trouble than the guy posting the post himself.

Spoiler

: Well said sir!

Spoiler

: Thank you Stibbons. So the question I have is why are we arsing about spending so much bloody time or Korabas when if he's the so-called symp, we ought to be focusing on Serc! I think this is all smoke and mirrors, and really, we ought to be testing by stringing up that Serc fellow, or maybe one of the supposedly upright citizens trying so valiantly to make a case on them!

Oook...

Spoiler

: Sorry Librarian, just felt a bit strongly about it. Damn, got sucked into this song and dance....

[Korabas]

Wow there is some deep reading into that comment. The whole idea was that I thought the symp case was weak, but the only thing worth mentioning from early day 1 shenanigans. In fact, the symp case was based on sharing an interest in RA2, which I myself enjoy. I mean, if I thought that the case against serc was a strong one, then why would I even bother to add that I too enjoyed RA2?

And yeah, I did pop in and leave. Unfortunately that's how I'll be playing the game throughout the week. I'll try to add something worth discussing every time I'm here, but early today all I had to talk about was that symp case.

[Monok Ochem]

Ook. EEK!

Spoiler

: Er, uh, ok. So I guess while the Librarian and Master Ridcully have a brief... wince... talk, I have been elected to carry on in the Librarian's stead. By the way, I want to say that the properties of that multiquote button thing are absolutely fascinati...

Spoiler

: Sorry, so here's the the short of it. Master Denul, not Master Serc, is at the heart of this. Here is what the Librarian has ascertained:

Spoiler

: First of all, Master Denul announced himself in the standard, provocative manner. Interestingly enough, as the Librarian pointed out, this manner quickly degenerates into base tomfoolery, making light of the last game's fake signalling, and a humorous switchero with a male picture where there ought to have been a more, er, beautiful lady. The quote (third below in the amazing MultiQuote device) that bothered him and myself the most was a comment about absence, not reading the OP, and speculation on a "symp" girlfriend. Quite the post for someone seemingly unengaged. Then Master Serc seems to "signal" closely followed by Master Korabas, and then it all just falls apart from there. But it comes back to Master Denul, don't you see? Master Denul's seemingly simple and easy going posts seems flippant, maybe even elusive, especially in context.

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

Checking in.

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

Inane Babble is reading the latest mafia game - it must be some kind of repeating signal!

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

I don't have a lot of time to post today so you probably won't hear from me again for the next few hours at least, but I promise I will give the OP a read at some point

For whomever was speculating about Kenshiro being alone upthread, IIRC he has a girlfriend who is kidnapped by one of the villains but still loves him, so that could be a potential symp role.

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Her name is Yuri and she looks like this:

Spoiler

Ook.

Spoiler

: Right, for your and Pathshapers benefit, I will put this into English:

Vote Denul.

[Monok Ochem]

Ooook.

Spoiler

: Righto. Ponder forgot to mention that despite Serc's supposed "sympage" we see Denul remaining cautiously aloof from this situation. Why bring up something that comes around while going around, heh?

[Korabas]

I decided to look into Denul based on Monok's post. Denul does avoid the Serc symp case, but he does not defend Serc's mistake (his claim that there is only one scum).

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 11 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Victory Conditions

Town: Eliminate Kenshiro

Scum: Achieve majority OR Kenshiro kills the 3 warlords. If a warlord is lynched, it does not count toward this VC, which becomes null.

This makes me think that there are other scum roles beyond Kenshiro.

Denul, on 14 April 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

...also the second part of that scum VC definitely makes it seem like Kenshiro is the only killer - no other scum kills/vigs nor is he partnered with anyone (though he could still have a lover but not be partnered) - since it only talks about Kenshiro killing the warlords or them being lynched. I could see a town vig being present without murkying up that scum VC too much, but any other scum kills/vigs beyond Kenshiro would get into too much cross-interpretation of the OP if they killed a warlord to be included in this game.

These comments, if anything, make Serc's mistake more evident. If there is some sympage going on here, either:

1) It is non-applicable
2) Denul missed it
3) Denul is distancing himself from Serc without directly addressing the issue.