[Vengeance]

I was serious the entire time. I was serious with pointing out gl and eloths voting pattern and I serious about you being on every train and about why tiam was still alive. I will post my ideas but I won't pander for votes or force people to see what I see. That I could even manage to post quotes of the lynches to support my findings is an accomplishment as I do not make cases any more. If I am the only one seeing patterns that look obvious to me can only put them out there. Once my d day train reaches a certain stage there obviously isn't anything I can say that I haven't already said. So fuck it.

[Vengeance]

It is suspicious to be on every single train. Yes I know town needs lynches but even scum won't try to be on every one unless they are a symp.

[ansible]

Okral Lom, on 29 April 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

Goddamn it Venge, I was right on the edge of thinking you were inno, and then you went and blew up. I couldn't believe any town player would do something so self-destructive. As Denul said, if you'd put that effort into making a better case or just doing something rational and sensible, we might have stood a chance. I was willing to listen if you'd been serious...*sigh*

Well played scum, anyhow. I had a finger on Eloth all game but I just couldn't bring myself to push through with it enough...

ST

Yeah, you played really well and I would have been forced to kill you if you got any closer. Once you and I had our first spat and you backed off, I let it ride. Basically my strategy in thinking that the scum/town number balance was way off was to increase WIFOM on thread as much as possible, which I actually think worked. That's why I killed MO, Lock, and Amp. Kesso was more of a gut feeling but he was also getting dangerous right around the Korabas reveal, and yeah, like Shin said, I was actually around but there was no way I was going for Korabas after that reveal.

Actually, after I read the reveal I made some really harsh comments to Shin in my PM, which I now deeply apologize for. Forgive me, Path-Shaper. I was furious that the rules had been broken, forcing in my mind either a) modkill, no Warlord VCs, or b ) the reveal stands and a Warlord gets lynched - again, no VCs. So I abandoned the Warlord VCs immediately after Korabas's reveal because there was too much I didn't know about what had changed or how things were originally. I thought for sure we had no chance of winning due to only having parity conditions, but in my thoughtlessness I did not actually ever consider that GL and I had a symp (which explains so much of my earlier confusion).

Just one post in my PM about why I went for Amp over Denul that night -

Eloth, on 23 April 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

Man, who to kill, who to kill...everyone seems to have a bit of dirt on them at this point (except maybe GL?). I think the other Warlord is Denul or Amp... is it too obvious to kill Amp after going after him with a full reread? I wanted Denul gone because he talks too much and I feel that eventually he will catch on to my little game...

But Denul is also a solid target for a lot of people, making him lynchable/scummy in a lot of people's eyes. However, his CF is going to remove all of that WIFOM and redirect attention to Tiam/Shadow/Rikkter, whoever doesn't get lynched today.

So is it more dangerous to remove Denul's confusing presence or to kill the guy I just made a case on?

I'm almost feeling that Amp needs to go, despite his supposed absence coming up. He's not really under suspicion so it's a safe kill; Denul seems to be the more dangerous choice, dead or alive...

I'll stick with my list for now but may update soon.

Also, I love Mafia, and I was enjoying this game immensely even thinking that I was going to lose, so thanks Shin.

[Gust Hubb]

Poor Shin = that night

[Shinrei]

ansible, on 29 April 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 29 April 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

Everyone, please remember to clean out your PM inboxes. I had a bit of a mess to tidy up before starting this game.

Congrats, scum. Your only mistake, ansible, was you didn't seem to believe you had a symp.

Wow...I guess I don't know why, but I never once considered that I had a symp after reading the game setup. TIAM - I LOVE YOU. I'M SO GLAD I DIDN'T KILL YOU LIKE I KILL ALL OF MY OTHER SYMPS.

I seriously thought this game was beyond our ability to win and the above is probably a lot of the reason.

Maybe the fact that you truly believed you had no symp was why you didn't kill them.

[Shinrei]

Gust Hubb, on 29 April 2014 - 02:56 AM, said:

Poor Shin = that night

This isn't the first game that I didn't craft the wording of my rules exactly right. I hope I've learned my lesson, and will make things more explicit next time.

Actually, I had my modkill post all set up on the "quick reply" box, when I noticed Gusty had been on and decided to ask him what he thought. It wasn't a perfect solution (sorry ansible), but it turned out all right as I don't think it really messed up town's play, and obviously didn't mess up the scums chance of winning.

[Shinrei]

I posted the entire convo with Gusty and subsequently with ansible and Korabas on the Spoiler thread, if you want to read the panic.

[Vengeance]

That was a tough spot I figured that by not nod killing him you were basically allowing town to either lynch him and remove the vc which a modkill would have done or he was full of shit and so needed to be lynched. Either way he needed to be lynched by town. I didn't understand the reason for the reveal and still think that scum should have killed him as soon as he revealed. But you played it cool and won. It was well done ansible..

[ansible]

Shinrei, on 29 April 2014 - 03:06 AM, said:

ansible, on 29 April 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 29 April 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

Everyone, please remember to clean out your PM inboxes. I had a bit of a mess to tidy up before starting this game.

Congrats, scum. Your only mistake, ansible, was you didn't seem to believe you had a symp.

Wow...I guess I don't know why, but I never once considered that I had a symp after reading the game setup. TIAM - I LOVE YOU. I'M SO GLAD I DIDN'T KILL YOU LIKE I KILL ALL OF MY OTHER SYMPS.

I seriously thought this game was beyond our ability to win and the above is probably a lot of the reason.

Maybe the fact that you truly believed you had no symp was why you didn't kill them.

LLLLLLLLLLLOL

You are absolutely right.

[Tattersail_]

Tiamatha, on 28 April 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

O don't want to log in tomorrow.morning and see 10 pages of this shite

please stop shadow

You actually wanted him to continue, you knew it'd make him get lynched

[Tattersail_]

Bek Okhan, on 28 April 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

While I'm amused by the concept of respectful spam, I agree with the sentiment. This is too far.

All those quotes? Am I missing something?

[Messremb]

Tattersail_, on 29 April 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 28 April 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

While I'm amused by the concept of respectful spam, I agree with the sentiment. This is too far.

All those quotes? Am I missing something?

All the scantily clad ladies

[Tattersail_]

Messremb, on 29 April 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 29 April 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 28 April 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

While I'm amused by the concept of respectful spam, I agree with the sentiment. This is too far.

All those quotes? Am I missing something?

All the scantily clad ladies

I missed those! Oh man!

Nothing I cannot see elsewhere I suppose. I enjoyed the quotes.

One day town will get their asses together and instead of picking the easy lynch (in this case Shadow) and go for the harder lynch. There was no case. It is hard for scum to make true cases because they know they are scum and the person they are making a case on is innocent. I truly find it hard as scum to not look scummy and my defense is weak. Yet I am strong in attack I reckon.

[Okral Lom]

Vengeance, on 29 April 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

I was serious the entire time. I was serious with pointing out gl and eloths voting pattern and I serious about you being on every train and about why tiam was still alive. I will post my ideas but I won't pander for votes or force people to see what I see. That I could even manage to post quotes of the lynches to support my findings is an accomplishment as I do not make cases any more. If I am the only one seeing patterns that look obvious to me can only put them out there. Once my d day train reaches a certain stage there obviously isn't anything I can say that I haven't already said. So fuck it.

Well why don't you make cases any more? I don't see that as something to be viewed as an accomplishment - it's the bare minimum you should be doing. And not pandering for votes or forcing people to see your way? You were town, it was D-Day, and you had the critical piece of information that we needed (eg. that you were RI). It is your responsibility in that situation to do exactly that!

Vengeance, on 29 April 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

It is suspicious to be on every single train. Yes I know town needs lynches but even scum won't try to be on every one unless they are a symp.

Well sure, but after 6 days of play there's enough material around that you can come up with something better than just that. There was a point where you said you ignored everything except CFs and votes, which to me is just *mind blown* if you're town. I can accept if you were low on time that it might be difficult to be thorough, but you obviously weren't low on time because you spent the entirety of Monday spamming the thread!

ST

[Vengeance]

Okral Lom, on 29 April 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 April 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

I was serious the entire time. I was serious with pointing out gl and eloths voting pattern and I serious about you being on every train and about why tiam was still alive. I will post my ideas but I won't pander for votes or force people to see what I see. That I could even manage to post quotes of the lynches to support my findings is an accomplishment as I do not make cases any more. If I am the only one seeing patterns that look obvious to me can only put them out there. Once my d day train reaches a certain stage there obviously isn't anything I can say that I haven't already said. So fuck it.

Well why don't you make cases any more? I don't see that as something to be viewed as an accomplishment - it's the bare minimum you should be doing. And not pandering for votes or forcing people to see your way? You were town, it was D-Day, and you had the critical piece of information that we needed (eg. that you were RI). It is your responsibility in that situation to do exactly that!

Vengeance, on 29 April 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

It is suspicious to be on every single train. Yes I know town needs lynches but even scum won't try to be on every one unless they are a symp.

Well sure, but after 6 days of play there's enough material around that you can come up with something better than just that. There was a point where you said you ignored everything except CFs and votes, which to me is just *mind blown* if you're town. I can accept if you were low on time that it might be difficult to be thorough, but you obviously weren't low on time because you spent the entirety of Monday spamming the thread!

ST

I don't make cases because unless the cases are based off of lynch trains then they are usually shit and end up with town lynches and not scum lynches. Cases made off of lynch trains on the other hand are based on actual activity and not on perceptions. True any case is based on perceptions but ones based off of comments rather then trains is more likely to catch town then scum. You can say that I can come up with something better then that but it was exactly on target for picking out the scum. I could have pressed it a bit more but then you were on every train and seemed sympish. I do ignore most everything except for CF's and votes. Why in a game where everyone lies does that blow your mind. If you assume that nobody is telling the truth then why bother to pay a lot of attention to any of it other then the things that they can't lie about. You look at it your way and I look at it my way. I suppose I could have gone through and seen if there were any instances of Eloth and GL and Tiam voting for each other, and I will next time. I stick by the cases that I build. You play your way and I'll play mine.

[Starling]

Vengeance, on 29 April 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 29 April 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 April 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

I was serious the entire time. I was serious with pointing out gl and eloths voting pattern and I serious about you being on every train and about why tiam was still alive. I will post my ideas but I won't pander for votes or force people to see what I see. That I could even manage to post quotes of the lynches to support my findings is an accomplishment as I do not make cases any more. If I am the only one seeing patterns that look obvious to me can only put them out there. Once my d day train reaches a certain stage there obviously isn't anything I can say that I haven't already said. So fuck it.

Well why don't you make cases any more? I don't see that as something to be viewed as an accomplishment - it's the bare minimum you should be doing. And not pandering for votes or forcing people to see your way? You were town, it was D-Day, and you had the critical piece of information that we needed (eg. that you were RI). It is your responsibility in that situation to do exactly that!

Vengeance, on 29 April 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

It is suspicious to be on every single train. Yes I know town needs lynches but even scum won't try to be on every one unless they are a symp.

Well sure, but after 6 days of play there's enough material around that you can come up with something better than just that. There was a point where you said you ignored everything except CFs and votes, which to me is just *mind blown* if you're town. I can accept if you were low on time that it might be difficult to be thorough, but you obviously weren't low on time because you spent the entirety of Monday spamming the thread!

ST

I don't make cases because unless the cases are based off of lynch trains then they are usually shit and end up with town lynches and not scum lynches. Cases made off of lynch trains on the other hand are based on actual activity and not on perceptions. True any case is based on perceptions but ones based off of comments rather then trains is more likely to catch town then scum. You can say that I can come up with something better then that but it was exactly on target for picking out the scum. I could have pressed it a bit more but then you were on every train and seemed sympish. I do ignore most everything except for CF's and votes. Why in a game where everyone lies does that blow your mind. If you assume that nobody is telling the truth then why bother to pay a lot of attention to any of it other then the things that they can't lie about. You look at it your way and I look at it my way. I suppose I could have gone through and seen if there were any instances of Eloth and GL and Tiam voting for each other, and I will next time. I stick by the cases that I build. You play your way and I'll play mine.

That's rubbish. Your analysis of the lynch trains led you to Okral Lom. Who was innocent.

How can you tell whether someone has been on every train because they are scum or someone who is on every train because they are around a lot and want to get lynches? How can you tell the difference between someone who is absent from a couple of lynches because they are busy with RL, and scum consciously avoiding lynches? Objective information about the lynches is great, but it needs to be backed up with subjective information from the posts and interactions.

[Vengeance]

Starling, on 30 April 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 April 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 29 April 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 29 April 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

I was serious the entire time. I was serious with pointing out gl and eloths voting pattern and I serious about you being on every train and about why tiam was still alive. I will post my ideas but I won't pander for votes or force people to see what I see. That I could even manage to post quotes of the lynches to support my findings is an accomplishment as I do not make cases any more. If I am the only one seeing patterns that look obvious to me can only put them out there. Once my d day train reaches a certain stage there obviously isn't anything I can say that I haven't already said. So fuck it.

Well why don't you make cases any more? I don't see that as something to be viewed as an accomplishment - it's the bare minimum you should be doing. And not pandering for votes or forcing people to see your way? You were town, it was D-Day, and you had the critical piece of information that we needed (eg. that you were RI). It is your responsibility in that situation to do exactly that!

Vengeance, on 29 April 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

It is suspicious to be on every single train. Yes I know town needs lynches but even scum won't try to be on every one unless they are a symp.

Well sure, but after 6 days of play there's enough material around that you can come up with something better than just that. There was a point where you said you ignored everything except CFs and votes, which to me is just *mind blown* if you're town. I can accept if you were low on time that it might be difficult to be thorough, but you obviously weren't low on time because you spent the entirety of Monday spamming the thread!

ST

I don't make cases because unless the cases are based off of lynch trains then they are usually shit and end up with town lynches and not scum lynches. Cases made off of lynch trains on the other hand are based on actual activity and not on perceptions. True any case is based on perceptions but ones based off of comments rather then trains is more likely to catch town then scum. You can say that I can come up with something better then that but it was exactly on target for picking out the scum. I could have pressed it a bit more but then you were on every train and seemed sympish. I do ignore most everything except for CF's and votes. Why in a game where everyone lies does that blow your mind. If you assume that nobody is telling the truth then why bother to pay a lot of attention to any of it other then the things that they can't lie about. You look at it your way and I look at it my way. I suppose I could have gone through and seen if there were any instances of Eloth and GL and Tiam voting for each other, and I will next time. I stick by the cases that I build. You play your way and I'll play mine.

That's rubbish. Your analysis of the lynch trains led you to Okral Lom. Who was innocent.

How can you tell whether someone has been on every train because they are scum or someone who is on every train because they are around a lot and want to get lynches? How can you tell the difference between someone who is absent from a couple of lynches because they are busy with RL, and scum consciously avoiding lynches? Objective information about the lynches is great, but it needs to be backed up with subjective information from the posts and interactions.

So how did that subjective analysis work for you all game hmmm? Yeah not that well. It would seem. Lets look at the game before that. Not that well either. How about the game before that. Not that well either again. Yeah so it seems that my track record is just as good as yours.

Oh and it took me to Okral as a symp and Tiam as the killer. Tiam who was scum so.... Plus originally it took me to Eloth, GL and Tiam as scum. So yes it might need to be tweeked a bit but I think that it has some the possibility to be a higher percentage algo then subjective analysis.

This post has been edited by Vengeance: 01 May 2014 - 05:43 PM