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The Russia Politics and War in Ukraine Thread

#1301 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 27 January 2023 - 01:23 AM

View PostNicodimas, on 26 January 2023 - 06:21 AM, said:

View PostMacros, on 26 January 2023 - 05:57 AM, said:

Wait Glorious Russia has only lost (does math) about 25k troops?

Mobilisation of reserves was just for shits and gigs


The scale of this might be more than you realize. I think. These numbers might be way higher.

The tank losses alone might be.. 3k Russia 7k for ukraine.

https://www.brooking...ons-for-russia/


Does one lose cruise missiles? That’s like counting spent ammunition as a casualty.

This is humiliating for Russia. Though I imagine every military even the United States has had to take pause and reasses what this war means. Clearly Russia was a paper tiger but also clearly facing a modern well equipped military should give anyone pause. The USA for example has opposed a combat peer since WW2? Or Korea maybe?
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#1302 User is online   Tsundoku 

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Posted 27 January 2023 - 05:49 AM

The biggest difference I can see in this one is the use of drones and real time intel/footage available to ... just about anyone.
The coordination of which has been a nasty surprise to enemies and allies both.

Imagine that close quarter insurrection warfare a la Afghanistan ... except this time the bad guys have tiny drones and a few laptops here and there collecting info, coordinating defence and attack.
And those drones etc meet the opposition drones ... it gets very messy very fast. Buy a few of those EMP rifle drone-jammers and it gets even more confused.

It's more an information war now than ever, and now anyone can get pretty decent data real-time and learn how to use it.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 27 January 2023 - 05:55 AM

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#1303 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 27 January 2023 - 02:56 PM

View PostCause, on 27 January 2023 - 01:23 AM, said:

This is humiliating for Russia. Though I imagine every military even the United States has had to take pause and reasses what this war means. Clearly Russia was a paper tiger but also clearly facing a modern well equipped military should give anyone pause. The USA for example has opposed a combat peer since WW2? Or Korea maybe?


Yes, this has made everybody else pause, probably no-one more than China with regards to Taiwan. It may have also helped trigger North Korea's insistence on getting more WMD. At some point in the past they may have been thinking they could overwhelm the South through sheer numbers despite their mostly-antiquated tanks and artillery, but now they've probably accepted that would be impossible against a dug-in South with superior technology.
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#1304 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 29 January 2023 - 09:00 PM

https://www.theameri...-its-different/

Another solid and well articulated article.
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#1305 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 29 January 2023 - 10:03 PM

My fact checker just exploded
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#1306 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 29 January 2023 - 11:07 PM

View PostMacros, on 29 January 2023 - 10:03 PM, said:

My fact checker just exploded


The article is correct in the point that there is unease in Kyiv, Washington DC and other capitals if Russia can be ejected from the remaining territory it has taken in a reasonable timeframe, and that window of opportunity closes probably before the midpoint of this year, beyond which it becomes extremely hard without being able to supply Ukraine with hardware on a scale currently beyond that of western powers to produce (the ~200 MBTs that Ukraine should gain in the next couple of months is enough for a limited counter-offensive, but not a wider, take-back-the-whole-country effort). There are also concerns that a localised Russian counter-offensive could prove successful if launched at a judiciously weak point of the Ukrainian line. There is however, no major belief that Russia is now capable of inflicting a permanent defeat on Ukraine.

In almost every other respect the article is either parroting nonsense from Russian-sympathetic sources or using bizarrely outdated material. It notes Ukraine was losing up to 200 troops a day, which is correct during the heaviest fighting for the twin cities back in the summer of last year for a period of around a month. However, that was for a very narrow period of time; casualties prior to that window and since have been dramatically less. Casualty losses for Russia, however, have increased significantly, reaching just under 1,000 a day during the assault on Svatove just a few weeks ago. The estimate of 150,000 Ukrainian military losses, which is simply not credible, assumes that 200 a day loss expanded across a period of two years, which given the way has so far raged for eleven months is not compatible with reality. It ignores that estimates of Ukrainian losses of up to 150,000 (at the very high end) are for combined Ukrainian military and civilian casualties, with civilians making up the overwhelming majority.

Russia's artillery, missile and drone stocks have collapsed precipitously in recent months since their height during the twin cities assault. Satellite FIRMS analysis of the battle front has shown that Russian fires have dropped from 60,000 a day during the summer to ~10,000 more recently and a lot less on non-Donbas fronts. On some occasions, Ukrainian artillery fire has outnumbered that of Russian. The reason for the Russian reduction is well-known: Russia is suffering from acute shortages of PGMs, cruise missiles and drones. It is sending newly-assembled PGMs and CMs to the front and to the Black Sea Fleet ASAP but this is amounting to a couple of dozen a month. To launch barrages of 50+ cruise missiles, it is dipping into its emergency stocks currently held in reserve for warfare with NATO in Europe. This is not sustainable. Dumb-fire shells are in more plentiful supply, but estimates have that Russia has fired up to 50% of its total reserve of shells and is only now just getting into full production. More problematic are artillery barrels, which they are burning through faster than can easily be replaced. Russia has resorted to using tanks in indirect fire mode as short-range artillery, which is deeply stupid because all that achieves is burning through their barrels (which cannot sustain the same fire rate). The logic is presumably they have more recoverable T-class barrels in reserve than artillery barrels.

Russia is also increasingly dependent on allies for resupply, but North Korea has proven reluctant to divert stocks to Russia (for which Putin literally removed Kim Jong-un from his Christmas goodwill list) because its own production capabilities are limited. Iran did send significant supplies of drones to Russia, but in recent weeks it seems to have reduced output, possibly as part of politicking over the nuclear deal (Israel hitting one of its military supply centres today will not help, although it was not a major strike).

On a more prosaic level, sanctions on Russia are proving effective: PGM and cruise missile production has dropped since they are reliant on western parts, around 30% of Russian rail freight is currently inoperable due to relying on Japanese components and both military and civilian aircraft have been told to use their breaks less for landing because replacement components are now very hard to come by.

The signs of internal dissent within Russia are also rising: Wagner is now a private army belonging to a warlord who has expended his once-tiny mercenary force to a an army of 40,000 and is keen to use prisoners to die instead of his soldiers, whom he is shepherding for future use, almost certainly more on Russian soil than on Ukrainian. He is also keen on an alliance with the leader of Chechnya, who has also gone to immense lengths to preserve his own troops' lives so they can be kept intact as his private army. There is an informal alliance between these two figures which is causing consternation in the Kremlin between other factions. Simultaneously, violent crime in Russia has exploded since the removal of Putin's own police forces to fight in Ukraine, with explosives and heavy automatic weapons now being used on the streets of major Russian cities since they have somehow gone missing from the front. There is greater political and criminal instability within Russia than at any time since 1990. However, it is correct in that a wholesale collapse is not imminent. Nor is it unthinkable.

The suggestion that NATO is not prepared for a war with Russia is also ludicrous. NATO possesses overwhelming superiority of aircraft, cruise missiles and naval vessels. If conflict were to erupt, NATO would prevail within a matter of weeks. It is true that Germany's military preparedness is poor, but as part of the wider alliance this is less of a concern: Britain, France, Poland, Spain, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, the Netherlands and the Baltic States also possess quite powerful military forces (batting highly above their weight in some cases) that form the backbone of NATO's European forces. Germany is also more than willing to contribute numbers and boots on the ground to such a conflict even if their heavier equipment is currently lacking. Germany, France, Poland and Britain by themselves are capable of defeating Russia if it came to a conventional conflict (and France and Britain also possess nuclear deterrents even if the United States chose to sit out such a conflict).

This is why Russia has gone to extreme lengths to avoid a war with NATO. It would lose such a war, either conventionally or by attempting a nuclear exchange which, regardless of the impact on NATO countries, would end with Russia's destruction. That is why Russia is not risking such a conflict, even moreso because in the current situation they have placed Russian troops in a third country where they could be destroyed without triggering Russia's own nuclear red lines. In fact, and some Russian sources have already advocated for this, the only reason for Russia to trigger such a war would be to "lose with credibility," namely that Russia losing a war with Ukraine would be humiliating and ridiculous, but losing a war against NATO, who acted "dishonourably" to weaken Russia in Ukraine first, could be seen as acceptable.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 29 January 2023 - 11:11 PM

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#1307 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 12:46 AM

Apparently Putin threatened to blow up Boris Johnson with a missile.
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#1308 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 08:03 AM

View PostWerthead, on 30 January 2023 - 12:46 AM, said:


So... He's not all that bad?
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#1309 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 08:33 AM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 30 January 2023 - 08:03 AM, said:

View PostWerthead, on 30 January 2023 - 12:46 AM, said:


So... He's not all that bad?


Yeah I mean I don't want to simp for Putin here BUT
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#1310 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 09:17 AM

The article I saw listed Johnson as the source of this claim.

The man has a Churchill fetish, let's not pander to him and let Him think he's a war time leader
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#1311 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 06:23 PM

View PostMacros, on 30 January 2023 - 09:17 AM, said:

The article I saw listed Johnson as the source of this claim.

The man has a Churchill fetish, let's not pander to him and let Him think he's a war time leader


Those calls are recorded, so him lying about it would be extremely stupid. Although that's also not out of character for Johnson.

Other reports today saying that Putin has also threatened Macron and Scholz in similar calls, and certainly Putin's allies have not been shy about making those threats in public.
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#1312 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 07:16 PM

To be fair, I would find it not at all surprising to learn that Putin has threatened multiple world leaders...he's that kind of strongman prick to do that shit.

This is not said in support of Johnson or any other world leader....but I mean Putin is old guard Soviet KGB who was a Lt. Colonel when the Soviet Union fell....this MFers entire LIFE is/was about threatening people for sixteen straight years.
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#1313 User is offline   Garak 

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 07:25 PM

All the more reason to stand up to him.
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#1314 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 30 January 2023 - 08:29 PM

View PostGarak, on 30 January 2023 - 07:25 PM, said:

All the more reason to stand up to him.


100% agree.

I'm just saying that if it's between Johnson boasting about something that didn't happen VS Putin threatened him....the latter is much more likely no matter how much of a liar Johnson is.
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#1315 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 01 February 2023 - 08:57 PM

It looks like the USA has authorised Boeing to sell the GLSDB medium-range missile to Ukraine. This will double the range of HIMARS to over 150km.
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#1316 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 02 February 2023 - 02:09 AM

View PostWerthead, on 01 February 2023 - 08:57 PM, said:

It looks like the USA has authorised Boeing to sell the GLSDB medium-range missile to Ukraine. This will double the range of HIMARS to over 150km.


This is yet another leak about new US aid package including longer-range missiles.

I will believe it once it's on the Pentagon website. We've been through this dance like 5 times now.
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#1317 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 01:53 PM

'Trump: I Know Magic Words to End Ukraine War "Immediately"

[...] “Frankly, I don’t think Putin wanted to do it. I think he was sort of forced in by the statements being made by Biden.” [...] “It really has to be done from the office of the president, and you have to get them both in a room,” [...] “There are things you can say to each one of them—which I won’t reveal now—which will guarantee that this war will end immediately.”'

Trump Thinks He Has Magic Words to End the War in Ukraine ‘Immediately’


Lemme guess:

Trump to Zelensky: we're gonna nuke you if you don't surrender.

Trump to Putin: Please give me more money... pretty please?
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#1318 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 07:09 PM

View PostMentalist, on 02 February 2023 - 02:09 AM, said:

This is yet another leak about new US aid package including longer-range missiles.

I will believe it once it's on the Pentagon website. We've been through this dance like 5 times now.


I think that's more been about ATACMS, GLSDB has only entered the conversation recently and there doesn't seem to be as many concerns about it. GLSDB is perfect for sniping ammo and fuel depots at range, but it can't really be an effective weapon for mass bombardment of Russian cities. It can also be used effectively to hit moving targets at extreme range. That would be a colossal technical advantage.

ETA: GLSDB confirmed today, although not a timetable for delivery. They should have been there yesterday.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 03 February 2023 - 09:16 PM

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#1319 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 11:05 PM

Let's all hope Ukraine doesn't bombard any Russian cities.

They have the moral high ground over Putin all day long, dropping bombs into Russia will just give him actual willing recruits.

Also, shelling civilian centers, fuck no

In other news there's a ton of Leopard 1s rolling about Europe and Germany has finally okd them to be snapped up and shipped to Ukraine
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#1320 User is offline   Chance 

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Posted 04 February 2023 - 11:40 AM

View PostMacros, on 03 February 2023 - 11:05 PM, said:

Let's all hope Ukraine doesn't bombard any Russian cities.

They have the moral high ground over Putin all day long, dropping bombs into Russia will just give him actual willing recruits.

Also, shelling civilian centers, fuck no


Since it has also been proven to be utterly useless for military goals lets hope so. Each bomb / missile / rocket that could be used on civilians will do more good on a military target. So far Ukraine seems to have been very sensible about it, wonder if its US threats or if its actual sensible military decisions. Cant imagine how hard it would be to take the sensible / moral road when the enemy is killing civilians by the thousands.

View PostMacros, on 03 February 2023 - 11:05 PM, said:

In other news there's a ton of Leopard 1s rolling about Europe and Germany has finally okd them to be snapped up and shipped to Ukraine


That's a surprise but reasonably they probably come out of storage and need to be refurbished in most cases and there is a severe lack of ammo for them if I understand right. Might be problematic if you can't get one of the big operators on track which is Brazil, Greece, Turkey and Chile. Would probably still be more than a match for a T-90 but like the soviet tanks the Leopard 1 is very poorly armored by modern standards possibly even worse armored than T-80 and T-90. Its a bit too close to the western version of Putinland getting their T-64's from storage to cheer for such decisions, there are more then enough Challengers 2, LeClerks, Leopards 2 and Abrams that the west could spare a few hundreds without noticing.

This post has been edited by Chance: 04 February 2023 - 11:49 AM

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