[Trake]

Grasp, on 23 October 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

I do really like the idea of you being a symp. You prodded a lot of people yesterday, but not everyone. And you didn't lay into everyone. I would consider checking out those exclusions.

Why don't you look into it then, instead of just vaguely suggesting it?

There were a lot of people who literally hadn't posted enough to lay into, beyond a general "fucking hell, half of you aren't even playing"...

I also fundamentally think the suggestion that scum would be the ones trying to kick the thread into life is a bit backwards.

[Fanderay]

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Reading up on Monok I have them pegged as more likely town than Cast. I might find how I find this hard to put into words but I will give it a go.

Monok Ochem, on 21 October 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 21 October 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Trake, on 21 October 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 21 October 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

It is the worst possible time, mere days before an important meeting of imperial and Church representative is due to be held there. If there has been a murder committed, then the guilty person or persons must be captured before shame is brought to the monastery.

I'm guessing this is what the Bernard Gui thing refers to?

Of course, it might help if the mods of a supposedly simple game would actually tell people the game conditions instead of cryptically referring to them in the explanation and letting people figure it out for themselves

I'd hoped that fad had passed.

I strongly doubt it ever will

Do you not find that figuring it out yourself gets your brain fired up and in theme for the game? I do.

His first post strikes me as someone who is putting on his gloves for cold weather. For me, it represents his willingness to be part of the game. I think he is more active than we would know, that he is catching up often. What made me think this is his next couple of posts.

Monok Ochem, on 22 October 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

So what do people think we have killer & symp is a good bet someone who has read the books can answer if William and Adso are potential killer and symp? Bernard arriving I'm at a loss to speculate as to what this may involve anyone had thoughts worth putting on thread? Mentioned as protagonist in the books but can't see them being a killer 3 days with no kills is excessive but 3 days to wrap up the game is to

Trake/Ultama are having fun tempted to put a vote on one of them because no one better in site so far

Day 1 signalling does happen but people try to be you know subtle about it what that really wasnt

Off for a bit now but will be back before night

This post also points to mechanics. It not only points to how scum are set up but it also speculates on the Bernard Gui guy. Now that he is dead and we know he was town, (he could have been a symp that turns into a killer day three or a town player that receives his finds/heals on day 3) but back when Monok posted this we weren't to know.

He mentions both Trake and I as potential scum and that is where he lays his vote. This is why i like him more than cast, he actually does vote and it was on a potential target that could have gotten lynched.

Monok Ochem, on 22 October 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

So what merit do Ultama and Trake see in lynching someone who will be modkilled shortly if theyre not modkilled they have some explaining to do tomorrow

I dont see a killer leaving their first post this late that strikes of raising too many questions

Low posting or hiding in a high posting style yes not no posting

Ultama looks like our only other choice at the moment

Vote Ultama

So he is voting here to get a lynch, which is the primary goal of town. So this goes in his favor. I underlined the part which is one of the reasons I looked into Monok in the first place.

Monok Ochem, on 22 October 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

Trake, on 22 October 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

However, there are several other things I don't like. The first is Fanderay - who claimed to be catching up hours ago (on a very short thread), and has promptly fucked off without comment, leaving a nice drive by vote in the process (a vote that Ultama points out is forming a train, and MO cites as leaving him the only real option, another thing I dislike but I'll get to that in my next post, since MO's play is something I dislike in general).

You have something better put it out there


4 hours left and 2 votes on 2 alts one of which is a likely modkill

Glad to see youre not sitting back though

He reprimands Trake for looking elsewhere, he is basically saying I am the best choice at this stage. I was and I agree with Monok.

Monok Ochem, on 22 October 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

Oh wow you totally convinced me

Yeah Im not having a brilliant week

Remove vote

Vote Monok Ochem

And I am out for the night now

Then the self vote, it is more like a fuck you all for not actually reading up, and fuck you all for not getting a lynch or going for a lynch. I like Monok as town.

so, someone grabbing hteir toys and leaving and obstructing town from lynching in the process is... town?

I don't see the logic. If you're town, you ALWAYS play for the team. Even if though your team is full of retards. Just because you're not being listened to doesn't mean you have the right to fuck up everyone else.

And, realistically, that's what MO's self-vote did. It made sure we won't lynch Day 1.

I really don't see how anyone can look at that and consider it "town play"

[Fanderay]

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Just noticed this. Fanderay only posts early day one. Then nada. Nothing. Squat.

Fanderay, on 21 October 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Trake, on 21 October 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 21 October 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

It is the worst possible time, mere days before an important meeting of imperial and Church representative is due to be held there. If there has been a murder committed, then the guilty person or persons must be captured before shame is brought to the monastery.

I'm guessing this is what the Bernard Gui thing refers to?

Of course, it might help if the mods of a supposedly simple game would actually tell people the game conditions instead of cryptically referring to them in the explanation and letting people figure it out for themselves

I'd hoped that fad had passed.

I strongly doubt it ever will

Fanderay, on 21 October 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

Having not read the book, I can only imagine that the Global User Interface person's arrival will mean nothing good for our quiet scholarly community. We already have an ex-inquisitor, will Bernard be a real one?

Fanderay, on 21 October 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Jalan, on 21 October 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

of course, the wikipedia summary and the next three summaries I've googled spend their time talking all about the themes and meanings and other fancy spunk but don't tell you who the killer is!

wouldn't be much of the mystery if they did, now would it?

Fanderay, on 21 October 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

Jalan, on 21 October 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 21 October 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Jalan, on 21 October 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

of course, the wikipedia summary and the next three summaries I've googled spend their time talking all about the themes and meanings and other fancy spunk but don't tell you who the killer is!

wouldn't be much of the mystery if they did, now would it?

Honestly, it'd be WIFOM-tastic!

Knowing Khell, he'd change make someone other than the villain scum just to mess with us.

Fanderay, on 21 October 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Rashan is a warren alt. Warren alts are reserved for slow game.

Fanderay, on 21 October 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 21 October 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 21 October 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

Knowing Khell, he'd change make someone other than the villain scum just to mess with us.

The great thing about using The Name of the Rose as the basis, from a mafia perspective, is that pretty much every character does something terrible, often along murderous lines

Stop it, you're making me want to add it to my already enormous TRP!

Nothing jumps out except for the fact that they interact to all the silly stuff. 8 posts all early on and then nothing since. Would scum be that careless?

fuck off, I voted for you right before you left for the day with your "woe is me, Fanderay's vote makes it a train!" post.

conveniently forgetting much?

[Ultama]

Well whilst you are here, why didn't you vote? Why did you not return to help town lynch? Where was your vote? At least he voted. I think Monok may be lynched today but I think he will CF town. I am not sure or positive, that is my opinion. yet a lot of people find him scummy, so he will have to be lynched. You sir should explain your absence before getting on your high horse.

[Ultama]

Fanderay, on 23 October 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

fuck off, I voted for you right before you left for the day with your "woe is me, Fanderay's vote makes it a train!" post.

conveniently forgetting much?

oops.

I missed that, and forgot about it. I should have analysed the trains and I would have seen you had a vote. I even mentioned before that there was 3 votes on me and Grasp would have made it 4.

[Fanderay]

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Well whilst you are here, why didn't you vote? Why did you not return to help town lynch? Where was your vote? At least he voted. I think Monok may be lynched today but I think he will CF town. I am not sure or positive, that is my opinion. yet a lot of people find him scummy, so he will have to be lynched. You sir should explain your absence before getting on your high horse.

go fuck yourself. I voted for you. and I will do so again


vote Ultama

he's flooding the thread with cases without committing, did the "vote me off, go ahead" thing first, with MO potentially symping him to block the lynch with the self-vote, and now he's flat out lying.

[Ultama]

Fanderay, on 23 October 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Well whilst you are here, why didn't you vote? Why did you not return to help town lynch? Where was your vote? At least he voted. I think Monok may be lynched today but I think he will CF town. I am not sure or positive, that is my opinion. yet a lot of people find him scummy, so he will have to be lynched. You sir should explain your absence before getting on your high horse.

go fuck yourself. I voted for you. and I will do so again


vote Ultama

he's flooding the thread with cases without committing, did the "vote me off, go ahead" thing first, with MO potentially symping him to block the lynch with the self-vote, and now he's flat out lying.

See post above and previous posts. I have selected my top 4 for scum, I am convinced one is a killer. This is what you get for just replying straight away without thinking.

[Fanderay]

Ultama, on 22 October 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Guys I really won't be around, i'm away as from now. Lynch me if you need to get a lynch, it's easy enough because I won't be around to defend myself, with Pallid's first vote and now Fanderay's a train is starting to be formed. If I am dead when I wake, I want you to know I have no ill feelings towards anyone in particular. With the low level of posts nothing has really stood out to me.

Goodnight.

here, just to refresh your memory.

[Fanderay]

all right, that was a fun lil' catchup. Now I gotta go work.

[Ultama]

Fanderay, on 23 October 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Ultama, on 22 October 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Guys I really won't be around, i'm away as from now. Lynch me if you need to get a lynch, it's easy enough because I won't be around to defend myself, with Pallid's first vote and now Fanderay's a train is starting to be formed. If I am dead when I wake, I want you to know I have no ill feelings towards anyone in particular. With the low level of posts nothing has really stood out to me.

Goodnight.

here, just to refresh your memory.

yes, brain fart about you voting or not voting. Let's see though Fanderay. Between your day one posts and then later posts there is still not much substance to them. I am glad you voted, and I do not have you as suspicious

[Cast]

Hey everyone! Sorry for not getting a vote in last night. Things happened, I didn't get to a computer before timeout. I know, no excuses, and I know it makes me look bad, but what else can I say, shit happens.

Though I obviously disagree with his accusations of me, I like the analysis that Ultama's making. I'm going to hopefully have the time to look deeper into some of the things he's said today and try to pick it apart a little. Work's kind of busy and whatnot, but I should have some more time to dedicate to Mafia today than I did yesterday!

[Hanas]

I'd say that two more people spring out from day 1 and the root of it is here in this little exchange.

Trake, on 22 October 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Ultama, on 22 October 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Vote Togg

Togg has not posted yet.

Remove vote

Vote Togg

Flimsy excuse for someone who hasn't posted yet?

Seems like a signal.

First, there's Ultama. He does the ever risky vote for someone not there - sometimes it is seen as a prod to post, sometimes it backfires, especially when it is followed by the argumentation that you shouldn't lynch the potential mod-kill and that basically leads to a morass. So basically, the way he lands into trouble is pretty standard: an act that doesn't sit well with people and that opens theoryland, making it worse by defending himself and then people piling on.


Then, there's Trake. He plays a somewhat aggro game. The voting and the jumping between votes stands out - not so much aggressive perhaps as more of a tagging for stuff he doesn't like. In turn, that allows others to first place the wishy-washy label on him, and then when Trake continues some prodding and voicing suspicions, there's the almost INEVITABLE a symp-tag being applied.
Because we nowadays expect good inno's to develop tunnel vision and a pile-on mentality, I suppose.


The little interesting thing here is that first Trake votes along, then, in 3 posts, makes a 180, and creates the option for a train.
Pallid is then eager to jump on.


I am not going to jump to conclusions. If Trake is a symp, it will tell at some point. Examining his day 1 is only useful in connotation with extra days, see if there are people who are consequently left out, subtly defended (probably by shifts of attention). We'll have to play the long game with multiple IGMEOY perspectives, perhaps also taking disappearances off thread in stride.
If he is inno, that too will show. Either through a NK or through behaviour.


Based on day 1, I'd jump on MO. Now to go on to day 2.

[Ultama]

Scrap that, you voted for me, then disappeared until the next day. You left your vote and was not around to change or discuss things any further. Also look at your reason for vote.

Fanderay, on 22 October 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Ultama, on 22 October 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

You are quite funny Trake. This is a very low TDMi game, why would someone signal in a low TDMi game? No one is dumb enough to signal. Voting Togg for nothing better than to lynch a non active player. My reason is posted right underneath my vote. You don't like the reason? Go suck a dick. It's my reason and I don't see a better option or didn't at the time.

just like no one's dumb enough to WIFOM on Day 1?

vote Ultama

catching up

[Ultama]

So that is not the best reason, but you don't post after you catch up. Monok follows your vote and if Trake was smart and wanted a lynch he could have voted for me and the train could have really got underway.

[Hanas]

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Here, awake and surprised I am alive. Why the fuck we couldn't get a lynch is beyond me, I knew it, I knew Togg would come on with a last minute, "I will post more at a later time" promise. It's not a huge deal we didn't lynch as it pushes D day back which the scum will not like. Now to have a look at everyone and see why people are keeping low, why we didn't get a lynch and anything else that comes to mind.

I can't help but ask how it is not a big deal for town considering we delay a lynch on a consensus suspicious character - whether that's you, or Monok, or Trake, or Togg, or whomever. Because unless we shift play style dramatically, we will just do the day 1 lynch day 2, and we're a full day behind on acting on our suspicions.

[Ultama]

Hanas, on 23 October 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Here, awake and surprised I am alive. Why the fuck we couldn't get a lynch is beyond me, I knew it, I knew Togg would come on with a last minute, "I will post more at a later time" promise. It's not a huge deal we didn't lynch as it pushes D day back which the scum will not like. Now to have a look at everyone and see why people are keeping low, why we didn't get a lynch and anything else that comes to mind.

I can't help but ask how it is not a big deal for town considering we delay a lynch on a consensus suspicious character - whether that's you, or Monok, or Trake, or Togg, or whomever. Because unless we shift play style dramatically, we will just do the day 1 lynch day 2, and we're a full day behind on acting on our suspicions.

It's a big deal if it happens every game, I am talking about this game in particular. There is a reason we didn't get a lynch we just don't know it yet. Are scum holding off? A lot of people didn't participate on day one, we have more activity today so therefore we should be able to manage a lynch.

[Hanas]

Argh. Between Grasp - Trake and now Fanderay - Ultama this is devolving rapidly in hissy-fit sniping. It should at the least be entertaining....
That being said, someone is coming apart.

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Well whilst you are here, why didn't you vote? Why did you not return to help town lynch? Where was your vote? At least he voted. I think Monok may be lynched today but I think he will CF town. I am not sure or positive, that is my opinion. yet a lot of people find him scummy, so he will have to be lynched. You sir should explain your absence before getting on your high horse.

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 23 October 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Well whilst you are here, why didn't you vote? Why did you not return to help town lynch? Where was your vote? At least he voted. I think Monok may be lynched today but I think he will CF town. I am not sure or positive, that is my opinion. yet a lot of people find him scummy, so he will have to be lynched. You sir should explain your absence before getting on your high horse.

go fuck yourself. I voted for you. and I will do so again


vote Ultama

he's flooding the thread with cases without committing, did the "vote me off, go ahead" thing first, with MO potentially symping him to block the lynch with the self-vote, and now he's flat out lying.

See post above and previous posts. I have selected my top 4 for scum, I am convinced one is a killer. This is what you get for just replying straight away without thinking.

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Scrap that, you voted for me, then disappeared until the next day. You left your vote and was not around to change or discuss things any further. Also look at your reason for vote.

Fanderay, on 22 October 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Ultama, on 22 October 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

You are quite funny Trake. This is a very low TDMi game, why would someone signal in a low TDMi game? No one is dumb enough to signal. Voting Togg for nothing better than to lynch a non active player. My reason is posted right underneath my vote. You don't like the reason? Go suck a dick. It's my reason and I don't see a better option or didn't at the time.

just like no one's dumb enough to WIFOM on Day 1?

vote Ultama

catching up

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

So that is not the best reason, but you don't post after you catch up. Monok follows your vote and if Trake was smart and wanted a lynch he could have voted for me and the train could have really got underway.

Are you trying to invalidate another player's earlier vote solely based on their participation, when they point out a WIFOM straight from the book?
And you pick a top 4 and are 'sure' about it (but don't name them or say why), on day 2, a day without a lynch or train analysis? Ultama, you're getting off the rails with a little bit of pressure and some namecalling.
I don't hold your wrong recollection of whether or not Fanderay voted you against you as much as he does (although the fact that you accuse him without checking is worrying), but your play is sketchy and smells like panic, even more so since you don't fact check.

Basically, you opened the gates for a (100% speculative) case to be constructed about starting a train on a non-participant to seem active (because scum don't start trains, dontchaknow),only to then Silencer style NK the guy who votes you first.

[Hanas]

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

Hanas, on 23 October 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Here, awake and surprised I am alive. Why the fuck we couldn't get a lynch is beyond me, I knew it, I knew Togg would come on with a last minute, "I will post more at a later time" promise. It's not a huge deal we didn't lynch as it pushes D day back which the scum will not like. Now to have a look at everyone and see why people are keeping low, why we didn't get a lynch and anything else that comes to mind.

I can't help but ask how it is not a big deal for town considering we delay a lynch on a consensus suspicious character - whether that's you, or Monok, or Trake, or Togg, or whomever. Because unless we shift play style dramatically, we will just do the day 1 lynch day 2, and we're a full day behind on acting on our suspicions.

It's a big deal if it happens every game, I am talking about this game in particular. There is a reason we didn't get a lynch we just don't know it yet. Are scum holding off? A lot of people didn't participate on day one, we have more activity today so therefore we should be able to manage a lynch.

I'd say only the current game counts, as the past is the past.
As for a reason... pff. Non-participation, mid-train switch, OM halting his lynch (I'm firmly with Fanderay on that topic). Pick your reason. Or have two at the price of one.

As for your mistaken belief that scum is responsible for the no-lynch: first you argue that a no-lynch is good for town, now you say scum did it by holding of or manipulating the thread (I assume that's what you mean by not knowing the reason). Contradicting yourself much?
Anyway, scum is a minority and as a group they cannot make or break a lynch without a danger of exposing themselves - I have seen individual scum do it through great lying, reasoning, deflection and soothing but I'd say none of that was of influence here unless it was MO.

[Ultama]

Sigh. It's because I am sat here at the computer with the thread infront of me. I did a post check of Fanderay before and I posted every single post he did, except the post were he voted for me. Not that I left it off on purpose, more so that I didn't find it, it's his only other post and it is one page 2. The rest of his posts were page one and he didn't post on page 3 or 4.

I posted my top 4 suspects. Cast/Monok and Grasp/Jalan. I then did a catch up on their posts.

Fanderay was only looked into because of their early conversation with Jalan.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 24 hours and 15 minutes remaining.


11 players alive: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Grasp, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Monok Ochem, Togg, Trake, Ultama

6 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

1 vote Monok Ochem: Trake
1 vote Ultama: Fanderay


Players not voted: Cast, Ghennan, Grasp, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Monok Ochem, Togg, Ultama