[Tapper]

twelve, on 16 May 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

@ IH

SS can't flip a colony ship as he has used all three this round. Otherwise I agree with what you said.

@ SS or all noobs for that matter

It's always best to wait as long as possible before using colony ships. It gives you the best flexibility leading into the upkeep phase.

That depends, imho. Take my first action exploration towards SS - if I'd left it open, he could have taken it by simply colonizing it while discovering elsewhere. Yes, it would be extremely hostile, but what could anyone except Iridani (superior fighters) and/or Orion (neuron bombs) do at the beginning of the first turn against that?

[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 16 May 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

twelve, on 16 May 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

@ IH

SS can't flip a colony ship as he has used all three this round. Otherwise I agree with what you said.

@ SS or all noobs for that matter

It's always best to wait as long as possible before using colony ships. It gives you the best flexibility leading into the upkeep phase.

That depends, imho. Take my first action exploration towards SS - if I'd left it open, he could have taken it by simply colonizing it while discovering elsewhere. Yes, it would be extremely hostile, but what could anyone except Iridani (superior fighters) and/or Orion (neuron bombs) do at the beginning of the first turn against that?

You can influence the disc so that it is yours but not colonise it. You can colonise a planet at any time using those ships.

[Imperial Historian]

If you'd put down a disc, ss wouldn't have been able to colonise. I agree that colonisation is best held off until just before upkeep.

@twelve I think it is harsh that a colonisation (which took place after everyone else made their moves, if I'm not mistaken) can't be undone by a first time player, its a clear mistake which wouldn't have been made by anyone who fully understood the rules. Its the sort of mistake someone would have spotted and warned a new player about in table play. Later in the game yes it makes sense to strictly stick to the rules, but on the first turn I think a little leeway is called for. Does everyone else not agree?

@the noobs if you have questions feel free to pm me

[Tattersail_]

I agree. I wasn't around to give advice not that I am good enough to do so, this is only my second attempt after all.

[Tapper]

Imperial Historian, on 16 May 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

If you'd put down a disc, ss wouldn't have been able to colonise. I agree that colonisation is best held off until just before upkeep.

@twelve I think it is harsh that a colonisation (which took place after everyone else made their moves, if I'm not mistaken) can't be undone by a first time player, its a clear mistake which wouldn't have been made by anyone who fully understood the rules. Its the sort of mistake someone would have spotted and warned a new player about in table play. Later in the game yes it makes sense to strictly stick to the rules, but on the first turn I think a little leeway is called for. Does everyone else not agree?

@the noobs if you have questions feel free to pm me

I think it's fine, too

Regarding holding off the ships: I see your point.

[Morgoth]

Imperial Historian, on 16 May 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

If you'd put down a disc, ss wouldn't have been able to colonise. I agree that colonisation is best held off until just before upkeep.

@twelve I think it is harsh that a colonisation (which took place after everyone else made their moves, if I'm not mistaken) can't be undone by a first time player, its a clear mistake which wouldn't have been made by anyone who fully understood the rules. Its the sort of mistake someone would have spotted and warned a new player about in table play. Later in the game yes it makes sense to strictly stick to the rules, but on the first turn I think a little leeway is called for. Does everyone else not agree?

@the noobs if you have questions feel free to pm me

I agree with the honourable LJ IH in his reasoning and support his conclusion.

[Solidsnape]

So I should have placed a money cube on the grey planet, and still influenced the pulsar systems just so I could go with the free upgrades, and then at the end of the turn, remove my discs from the pulsar systems and bring my upkeep down to -5.
The downside to this being that I wouldn't be able to colonise the material and science planets in those systems.
That right?
That would have left me 2 colony ships to flip at the end.
Can I only flip 1?

[Imperial Historian]

Let's explain things a bit better.

You did 4 explore actions, and influenced 3 systems, this gives you an upkeep of -10.

You have 2 money in the bank, and an income of 4 with your current actions, which would mean you could afford upkeep up to -5.

If you had colonised the grey planet with money you would have an income of 6, which would mean you could afford upkeep up to -7 (this would probably have been the better move, as you could then have kept the pulsar system of your choice and used the extra colony ship to get one research, production or money)

However since you have colony ships which you can flip over for resources (you can flip over all your colony ships for resources and not colonise any planets if you choose) in your situation you can flip over one colony ship for money, and thus be able to afford income of -7, without colonising the grey planet for money.

As things stand you can do your two free actions with the pulsars, then deinfluence one due to bankruptcy at the end of your turn to bring you to -7. Assuming you did not colonise the planet in the latest pulsar you discovered, you will have a bank of 2, an income of 4, then flipping a colony ship for one money brings you to 7, allowing you to pay the -7 upkeep.

You had colonised the planet, and so don't have a colony ship to get the extra money you need and so would not have been able to afford this, forcing you to deinfluence a second hex in order to get you to a value of -5 which you could afford. Since this would force you to remove a cube from a planet you had just spent a colony ship to claim this is an obvious error, as you would gain no benefit from this colonisation, and in fact lose an extra hex as a result.

[Solidsnape]

So in that case, I will upgrade interceptors with fusion source, replacing current source.
Then upgrade the empty space with an upgraded hull.

Then through bankruptcy I can relinquish gamma valorum (returns science cube) and Sineis (return material cube).
After upkeep. Should be left with

1 money
6 science
6 materials

That right?

[cerveza_fiesta]

@SS

I think the idea (if I've followed correctly) is that we're granting you a do-over on your last colonization order (ie the material cube in Sineis).

Un-doing this colonization (which an experienced player likely never would have done) frees up one of your colony ships again, so that you can flip it for 1 money at the end of the round.

When you do the math (Bank + income + colony ship flips - upkeep) you should come in net positive or zero. If you use the colony ship for money as IH suggests, then you will only have to de-influence a single system. If you don't use that colony ship for money then you are forced to de-influence 2 systems to balance your books.

SO the do-over on colonization of the material planet in Sineis is up to you. I'm perfectly fine with granting it if you wish to take it, and it seems most other players are too. Just let me know. Either way the de-influencing thing happens AFTER you use your free pulsar moves, so you still get 2 of them regardless.

RE the upgrade:

Source increases available energy. Right now your interceptor has an ion cannon and a drive that each take 1 energy for a total of 2 energy drain. Placing a fusion source gives you 6 available energy, but the ship still only drains 2. You don't own any components right now that can possibly drive the energy drain of an interceptor above 3 (ie if you added an extra ion cannon), so the fusion source upgrade on an interceptor is kind of useless right now.

Better probably to upgrade fusion source on your cruiser or dreadnought (in anticipation of building those ship types in future turns). The hull upgrade on your interceptor never hurts though. If I were you I'd do the hull upgrade on my interceptor, but choose a different upgrade on the cruiser or dreadnought blueprint.

Remember, all ship blueprints are subject to the same rules:

• must have at least one drive (unless it's a starbase)
• must have a source (starbases included).
• Total energy drain must be less than or equal to total energy source

And any of the original components can be "covered up" by new components in any arrangement you desire, so long as the 3 conditions above are met at the end of each upgrade action.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 16 May 2013 - 12:51 PM

[Morgoth]

And don't worry about struggling with the mechanics. It's all a little overwhelming at first, but you'll get the hang of it before D'rek decides to eat you.

[Tattersail_]

Morgoth, on 16 May 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

And don't worry about struggling with the mechanics. It's all a little overwhelming at first, but you'll get the hang of it before D'rek decides to eat you.

I think Tapper is going to eat him first. D'rek is either going to have a nibble at me, or go for the centre.

[Khellendros]

Ganoes Paran, on 16 May 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 16 May 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

And don't worry about struggling with the mechanics. It's all a little overwhelming at first, but you'll get the hang of it before D'rek decides to eat you.

I think Tapper is going to eat him first. D'rek is either going to have a nibble at me, or go for the centre.

The supreme irony is that the calamari will have you all for dinner!


And SS, just do what I do. When they suggest you do something which you find incomprehensible, just nod, smile politely, and say, 'Yeah, I'll do that thingamawhatsit what they done said.'

[Tattersail_]

You are not going to be nasty are you Khell? Not to me

[Khellendros]

Ganoes Paran, on 16 May 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

You are not going to be nasty are you Khell? Not to me

Even my bites and scratches are pleasurable, Tatts, you know that.

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 16 May 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 16 May 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

You are not going to be nasty are you Khell? Not to me

Even my bites and scratches are pleasurable, Tatts, you know that.

Again you said you wouldn't tell. You said if I scratched yours that you'd ahh....

hmm scratch mine :S

[Tapper]

Ganoes Paran, on 16 May 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 16 May 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

And don't worry about struggling with the mechanics. It's all a little overwhelming at first, but you'll get the hang of it before D'rek decides to eat you.

I think Tapper is going to eat him first. D'rek is either going to have a nibble at me, or go for the centre.

You think wrong. Attacking him will mean Twelve will scoop up some of my systems, just like him attacking me will likely force a war of attrition that I probably will win due to cheaper ships. Neither of us has much to gain by war and that makes us good allies. Furthermore, I have everything to win by SS holding his own and buffering my flank, because I think I may be forced to enter an unholy alliance with Twelve to stop D'rek immediately after she takes the centre (especially since you have your tongue so deep up Orion's ass that you can taste D'rek's dinner before it's digested).

[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 16 May 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran, on 16 May 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 16 May 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

And don't worry about struggling with the mechanics. It's all a little overwhelming at first, but you'll get the hang of it before D'rek decides to eat you.

I think Tapper is going to eat him first. D'rek is either going to have a nibble at me, or go for the centre.

You think wrong. Attacking him will mean Twelve will scoop up some of my systems, just like him attacking me will likely force a war of attrition that I probably will win due to cheaper ships. Neither of us has much to gain by war and that makes us good allies. Furthermore, I have everything to win by SS holding his own and buffering my flank, because I think I may be forced to enter an unholy alliance with Twelve to stop D'rek immediately after she takes the centre (especially since you have your tongue so deep up Orion's ass that you can taste D'rek's dinner before it's digested).

I am just terribly frightened of engaging her in combat, last game saw it bankrupt me, she was by far the cleverer player. I took her down, but it was suicide.

Although the tongue thing, D'rek? Are you a willing participant in that scenario

[twelve]

Imperial Historian, on 16 May 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

If you'd put down a disc, ss wouldn't have been able to colonise. I agree that colonisation is best held off until just before upkeep.

@twelve I think it is harsh that a colonisation (which took place after everyone else made their moves, if I'm not mistaken) can't be undone by a first time player, its a clear mistake which wouldn't have been made by anyone who fully understood the rules. Its the sort of mistake someone would have spotted and warned a new player about in table play. Later in the game yes it makes sense to strictly stick to the rules, but on the first turn I think a little leeway is called for. Does everyone else not agree?

@the noobs if you have questions feel free to pm me

I was looking at his player board that showed that he had no colony ships available. I should have realized that he used his last colony ship on his last explore action. I have no issue at all letting him take that last settlement back so he can better afford his upkeep. Either way I think this was a great learning experience for him and possibly Gnaw on the mechanics of upkeep. Just think of this as a lesson in personal finances. What you have in the bank plus what you earn need to be greater than what is due else you have to "sell" stuff off. If you run out of stuff to sell, Game Over.

[Tattersail_]

twelve, on 16 May 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 16 May 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

If you'd put down a disc, ss wouldn't have been able to colonise. I agree that colonisation is best held off until just before upkeep.

@twelve I think it is harsh that a colonisation (which took place after everyone else made their moves, if I'm not mistaken) can't be undone by a first time player, its a clear mistake which wouldn't have been made by anyone who fully understood the rules. Its the sort of mistake someone would have spotted and warned a new player about in table play. Later in the game yes it makes sense to strictly stick to the rules, but on the first turn I think a little leeway is called for. Does everyone else not agree?

@the noobs if you have questions feel free to pm me

I was looking at his player board that showed that he had no colony ships available. I should have realized that he used his last colony ship on his last explore action. I have no issue at all letting him take that last settlement back so he can better afford his upkeep. Either way I think this was a great learning experience for him and possibly Gnaw on the mechanics of upkeep. Just think of this as a lesson in personal finances. What you have in the bank plus what you earn need to be greater than what is due else you have to "sell" stuff off. If you run out of stuff to sell, Game Over.

I feel your eyes looking over at me.