[Tsundoku]

Finally saw it.

I can understand and to a certain extent sympathise with some of the problems iterated previously.

However they did not diminish my enjoyment.

Seven lightly marinated porgs out of ten. (Wow, I'm actually drooling at the thought)

[rant]

Cause, on 28 December 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

Andorion, on 28 December 2017 - 05:05 AM, said:

Also, one part of the movie I did not understand was that dark hole in the island and how Rey interacted with it. Would appreciate an example of that.

Yip. This was a weird scene. That apparently ended up being pointless. She learned nothing, was not tainted by darkness and the weird endless mirror thing did not make any sense to me. I got no symbolism from it.

I just treated it as the new trilogy's equivalent of the OT's Dagobah Darkside Cave.

QuickTidal, on 28 December 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

Which brings up another BIG plot point issue. What's happened to Coruscant? I get that the NuCanon aspect of the Republic Government is that the home system moves to be whatever is the home system of the Chancellor (it was Chandrilla for Mon Mothma, and became Hosnian Prime after she died and the office of the Chancellor was someone else)...but Coruscant was the centre of the Republic for generations (and of the Empire too)...as for good reason. It was defensible, it had a myriad of outer defences that could have SEEN SKB coming, it has a huge Senate building to house government, and has a Jedi Temple all ready for Luke's new students...that it's just inexplicably disappeared from NuCanon history (aside from the one scene in ROGUE ONE) is not only a travesty, but a massive narrative sinkhole where the Nu Canon story group basically has to ignore it ever existed I guess.

Yea lack of Coruscant really bothers me as well. It's like some of the meta (re: disney) decisions they made when creating TFA were done simply to distance the movies from prequels and EU. Which is dumb in my opinion.

Aside from that, I didn't know that was the NuCanon (I like that term, and so am stealing it) explanation for why the Republic was located in the Hasnian system. From a practical/logistical stand point........that would be a logistical nightmare lol. I can't imagine moving Canada's federal government between the 10 provinces every election cycle....let alone an entire galactic government. I can just imagine senators (or whatever the New Republic has) pragmatically electing someone just so they don't have to move.

Damnit QuickTidal, now I'm getting bogged down in the minutia of what galactic republic democracy would look like (again)....there goes the rest of my day.

[QuickTidal]

rant, on 28 December 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 28 December 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

Which brings up another BIG plot point issue. What's happened to Coruscant? I get that the NuCanon aspect of the Republic Government is that the home system moves to be whatever is the home system of the Chancellor (it was Chandrilla for Mon Mothma, and became Hosnian Prime after she died and the office of the Chancellor was someone else)...but Coruscant was the centre of the Republic for generations (and of the Empire too)...as for good reason. It was defensible, it had a myriad of outer defences that could have SEEN SKB coming, it has a huge Senate building to house government, and has a Jedi Temple all ready for Luke's new students...that it's just inexplicably disappeared from NuCanon history (aside from the one scene in ROGUE ONE) is not only a travesty, but a massive narrative sinkhole where the Nu Canon story group basically has to ignore it ever existed I guess.

Yea lack of Coruscant really bothers me as well. It's like some of the meta (re: disney) decisions they made when creating TFA were done simply to distance the movies from prequels and EU. Which is dumb in my opinion.

Aside from that, I didn't know that was the NuCanon (I like that term, and so am stealing it) explanation for why the Republic was located in the Hasnian system. From a practical/logistical stand point........that would be a logistical nightmare lol. I can't imagine moving Canada's federal government between the 10 provinces every election cycle....let alone an entire galactic government. I can just imagine senators (or whatever the New Republic has) pragmatically electing someone just so they don't have to move.

Damnit QuickTidal, now I'm getting bogged down in the minutia of what galactic republic democracy would look like (again)....there goes the rest of my day.

Yeah, this was established in the post-ROTJ Chuck Wendig books to a degree, and then moreso in the Leia BLOODLINE book as well.

It's also established that Mon Mothma decided that the Republic military (after the Empire were finally defeated and Mass Amedda [the big blue horned guy from the prequels] conceded the Empire to the Republic...after the defeat at Jakku) should be largely disbanded, and lessened to a fracitonary force to allay fears amongst the New Republic citizens that the mistakes of the old Republic or the Empire would not be repeated...which is arguably even STUPIDER of NuCanon to do with the galaxy than refusing to acknowledge Coruscant's value as the centre of gov't. So the fact that Leia has a Resistance military is predicated on the fact that Mon Mothma (in a move that [like a lot of NuCanon decisions] is COUNTER to who she is and what she represents) idioitalcly disbanded the Rebel Alliance military when it became a Republic....because the Republic apparently has no need of a large Military force...for some inexplicable reason. For me reading that was like the storytellers saying "We needed a reason why the First order EVER becomes a threat...and the only way to achieve that is to have the heroes disband their military so they are taken unawares!"....ugh...

But yeah, shifting the gov't around is a dumbass plot idea that the story group allowed through their net when JJ wanted to make it Hosnian Prime instead of Coruscant.

[rant]

QuickTidal, on 28 December 2017 - 05:04 PM, said:

Yeah, this was established in the post-ROTJ Chuck Wendig books to a degree, and then moreso in the Leia BLOODLINE book as well.

It's also established that Mon Mothma decided that the Republic military (after the Empire were finally defeated and Mass Amedda [the big blue horned guy from the prequels] conceded the Empire to the Republic...after the defeat at Jakku) should be largely disbanded, and lessened to a fracitonary force to allay fears amongst the New Republic citizens that the mistakes of the old Republic or the Empire would not be repeated...which is arguably even STUPIDER of NuCanon to do with the galaxy than refusing to acknowledge Coruscant's value as the centre of gov't. So the fact that Leia has a Resistance military is predicated on the fact that Mon Mothma (in a move that [like a lot of NuCanon decisions] is COUNTER to who she is and what she represents) idioitalcly disbanded the Rebel Alliance military when it became a Republic....because the Republic apparently has no need of a large Military force...for some inexplicable reason. For me reading that was like the storytellers saying "We needed a reason why the First order EVER becomes a threat...and the only way to achieve that is to have the heroes disband their military so they are taken unawares!"....ugh...

But yeah, shifting the gov't around is a dumbass plot idea that the story group allowed through their net when JJ wanted to make it Hosnian Prime instead of Coruscant.

How interesting a story would TFA have been if the FO was a fascist terrorist splinter (as an inverse of the Rebel Alliance) of the Empire who refused to surrender, fighting a Republic (inverse of the Empire) that was trying to avoid the mistakes that lead to the empire (RE: concentration of power, military build-up) in the first place. Add to that FO goals literally being a slip to fascism within the Republic, so their supporters could take over (ala Palpatine)....culminating in the destruction of Coruscant. I'd watch that.

So many missed opportunities.

[QuickTidal]

rant, on 28 December 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 28 December 2017 - 05:04 PM, said:

Yeah, this was established in the post-ROTJ Chuck Wendig books to a degree, and then moreso in the Leia BLOODLINE book as well.

It's also established that Mon Mothma decided that the Republic military (after the Empire were finally defeated and Mass Amedda [the big blue horned guy from the prequels] conceded the Empire to the Republic...after the defeat at Jakku) should be largely disbanded, and lessened to a fracitonary force to allay fears amongst the New Republic citizens that the mistakes of the old Republic or the Empire would not be repeated...which is arguably even STUPIDER of NuCanon to do with the galaxy than refusing to acknowledge Coruscant's value as the centre of gov't. So the fact that Leia has a Resistance military is predicated on the fact that Mon Mothma (in a move that [like a lot of NuCanon decisions] is COUNTER to who she is and what she represents) idioitalcly disbanded the Rebel Alliance military when it became a Republic....because the Republic apparently has no need of a large Military force...for some inexplicable reason. For me reading that was like the storytellers saying "We needed a reason why the First order EVER becomes a threat...and the only way to achieve that is to have the heroes disband their military so they are taken unawares!"....ugh...

But yeah, shifting the gov't around is a dumbass plot idea that the story group allowed through their net when JJ wanted to make it Hosnian Prime instead of Coruscant.

How interesting a story would TFA have been if the FO was a fascist terrorist splinter (as an inverse of the Rebel Alliance) of the Empire who refused to surrender, fighting a Republic (inverse of the Empire) that was trying to avoid the mistakes that lead to the empire (RE: concentration of power, military build-up) in the first place. Add to that FO goals literally being a slip to fascism within the Republic, so their supporters could take over (ala Palpatine)....culminating in the destruction of Coruscant. I'd watch that.

So many missed opportunities.

I agree, and that's one of my main issues with the new trilogy, this weird NEED to reset the table to two similar warring factions as the OT....instead of following the progression of the galaxy from the OT in a narratively normal way (New Republic and Imperial remnant).

It's like in the reach of Disney to re-set the table and make things "new"...they avoided the natural progression of the Galactic politics as the backdrop, and have tried instead to "force" (pun!) this re-do instead of Rebels VS Empire. Perhaps because of how daunting it is to write a story with the New Republic as the major government in the series going forward?

But I agree with you, there are a lot of missed opportunities here.

To be honest, I'd love to have seen what Dave Filoni might have done with the sequel trilogy from a story arc standpoint....I have a feeling it would have been MUCH more rewarding and progressive for the saga.

[Tiste Simeon]

Steven Erikson recently posted a link to this interesting article, exploring the student/master issues in all the Star Wars films... Had some thoughts on Luke/Ben in TLJ.

https://nerdist.com/...c-relationship/

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

That movie was good. Best Star Wars movie outside of the original trilogy. Come at me.

[QuickTidal]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on 29 December 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:

That movie was good. Best Star Wars movie outside of the original trilogy. Come at me.

ATTACK OF THE CLONES was better.



come at ME.

[Nevyn]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on 29 December 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:

That movie was good. Best Star Wars movie outside of the original trilogy. Come at me.

I mean, that's kind of faint praise if you're looking to pick a fight.

[Gorefest]

Went to see it today and quite enjoyed it. My biggest issue is that I cannot really see what 'big bad' they have left to fight. Because Kylo Ren is pretty useless as a boss villain. He couldnt even run a train set, let alone an empire.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 29 December 2017 - 07:19 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

I quite like Kylo Ren. He's like how I imagine Vader between episodes 3 and 4. Whiny angry teen who is a bit shit but mad enough to keep people following him through fear.

[Nevyn]

Gorefest, on 29 December 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

Went to see it today and quite enjoyed it. My biggest issue is that I cannot really see what 'big bad' they have left to fight. Because Kylo Ren is pretty useless as a boss villain. He couldnt even run a train set, let alone an empire.

One of many reasons there could be a time lag into the third movie.

There is hardly any resistance left. The hinted at organic growth from the symbols of the resistance take time.

Kylo's power within the first order needs to consolidate itself. Not to mention since Luke didn't actually teach Rey a thing, she kind of still has some learning of her own to do.



Of course, depending on how JJ and the powers are actually in line with Johnson's direction, you may not even see a "big bad" such as it is. A lot of the hinted at direction is at things resolving by the resistance finding opposition outside of violence (for the overall fight) and more organically winning, and of the force coming to balance not by light winning over dark and vice versa, but of both (and the practitioners of both) finding some harmony between instead of either or.

Which of course sounds like a nice philosophy and a horrible movie.

[worry]

I'd absolutely love it if Ep IX was like Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter...and Spring but with the occasional space and/or sword battle.

[Nevyn]

worry, on 29 December 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

I'd absolutely love it if Ep IX was like Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter...and Spring but with the occasional space and/or sword battle.

I don't know. I kind of feel like sword and space battles would disrupt from all the inner peace.

What if we cut those parts, and just drank chamomile tea with cute emotive aliens and robots who will make good toys?

[Gorefest]

Star Wars is not that sort of film series though. Cant go from family friendly epic space opera to navelgazing.

[Nevyn]

Gorefest, on 29 December 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Star Wars is not that sort of film series though. Cant go from family friendly epic space opera to navelgazing.

Episode 9 will be called Star Peace: The Reconciliation of the Everybody.

[Tsundoku]

Dude makes some valid points. Twice! :





Like him I still enjoyed it though.

(Passage of time is definitely one of the things that bugs me though, and not just in this movie but TFA as well. Fer crissakes would it kill you to depict great changes and character growth combined with rebel escapes/hunts and even side quests over weeks or months instead of mere days or even hours?)

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 29 December 2017 - 11:32 PM

[worry]

I'm willing to say it, if nobody else here will: Hitler sucked ass.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

worry, on 29 December 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

I'm willing to say it, if nobody else here will: Hitler sucked ass.

Worst. Hitler. Ever.

[Nevyn]

worry, on 29 December 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

I'm willing to say it, if nobody else here will: Hitler sucked ass.

As Norm MacDonald once said, the more I read about the guy, the more I don't care for him.