[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I’ve been thinking about it and stand by my opinion. It’s good. There aren’t any flaws that don’t also exist in every other Star Wars movie. I’m going to see it again in the theater.

[worry]

I'd put it in my Top 3 SW movies no question, just not sure if #2 or #3.

[Nicodimas]

 Nevyn, on 29 December 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

 Raymond Luxury Yacht, on 29 December 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:

That movie was good. Best Star Wars movie outside of the original trilogy. Come at me.

I mean, that's kind of faint praise if you're looking to pick a fight.

I agree this movie was all upside really ..I personally loved it.

Most of the downside points really really never think about the first three movies. However I love Star Wars can’t get enough

[Slow Ben]

Finally saw it. Been avoiding this thread like the plague, so have no idea what everyone thought.

But that was boring. But at least there was plenty of cute creatures!!!

Gonna let it marinate for s bit.

[Abyss]

Y'know what else is good to marinate for a bit?
Porgy.

[Vengeance]

 Tiste Simeon, on 28 December 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

Steven Erikson recently posted a link to this interesting article, exploring the student/master issues in all the Star Wars films... Had some thoughts on Luke/Ben in TLJ.

https://nerdist.com/...c-relationship/

I disagree with most of that. Plus I am pretty sure that I saw the Jedi texts on the falcon at the end of TLJ.

The author missed that the person who fathered Luke died when he went over to the dark side and became lord Vader. Luke didn't kill his father he saved him. There was abuse in the relationships but only from the introduction of the dark side. Anikan started to be a dick to Ashoka when he started to embrace it.

[Tiste Simeon]

 worry, on 29 December 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

I'm willing to say it, if nobody else here will: Hitler sucked ass.

You see, both sides were bad, really...

[polishgenius]

 Vengeance, on 30 December 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 28 December 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

Steven Erikson recently posted a link to this interesting article, exploring the student/master issues in all the Star Wars films... Had some thoughts on Luke/Ben in TLJ.

https://nerdist.com/...c-relationship/

The author missed that the person who fathered Luke died when he went over to the dark side and became lord Vader. Luke didn't kill his father he saved him. There was abuse in the relationships but only from the introduction of the dark side. Anikan started to be a dick to Ashoka when he started to embrace it.

Urgh I hate this interpretation. Anakin went over to the dark side because he was a dick. To say otherwise invites the excuse, in real life as people relate to these characters, that 'it wasn't really me that did the bad things to you', and absolve oneself of responsibility.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

 polishgenius, on 30 December 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

 Vengeance, on 30 December 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 28 December 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

Steven Erikson recently posted a link to this interesting article, exploring the student/master issues in all the Star Wars films... Had some thoughts on Luke/Ben in TLJ.

https://nerdist.com/...c-relationship/

The author missed that the person who fathered Luke died when he went over to the dark side and became lord Vader. Luke didn't kill his father he saved him. There was abuse in the relationships but only from the introduction of the dark side. Anikan started to be a dick to Ashoka when he started to embrace it.

Urgh I hate this interpretation. Anakin went over to the dark side because he was a dick. To say otherwise invites the excuse, in real life as people relate to these characters, that 'it wasn't really me that did the bad things to you', and absolve oneself of responsibility.

Or maybe he just succumbed to the temptation of easy power? Maybe he was just weak? Maybe the Dark Side is like a really addictive drug, and one hit is all it takes.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 30 December 2017 - 06:43 PM

[Slow Ben]

Also, who’s dick do I have to suck to get a good lightsaber fight?

I know it’s not required for a good Star Wars movie as, IMO, Rogue One was far and away the best of the new 3,

14 hours later and I’m still depressed.

[Cause]

 Nevyn, on 29 December 2017 - 07:38 PM, said:

Not to mention since Luke didn't actually teach Rey a thing, she kind of still has some learning of her own to do.

What are you talking about, she can lift tons of rokcs, beat kylo Ren in a fight not to mention beat the elite guard of snoke with a weapon she has never trained with. She has magic force plot powers.

[Vengeance]

 polishgenius, on 30 December 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

 Vengeance, on 30 December 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 28 December 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

Steven Erikson recently posted a link to this interesting article, exploring the student/master issues in all the Star Wars films... Had some thoughts on Luke/Ben in TLJ.

https://nerdist.com/...c-relationship/

The author missed that the person who fathered Luke died when he went over to the dark side and became lord Vader. Luke didn't kill his father he saved him. There was abuse in the relationships but only from the introduction of the dark side. Anikan started to be a dick to Ashoka when he started to embrace it.

Urgh I hate this interpretation. Anakin went over to the dark side because he was a dick. To say otherwise invites the excuse, in real life as people relate to these characters, that 'it wasn't really me that did the bad things to you', and absolve oneself of responsibility.

Isn't being born again does absolves you of your prior sins.

You are chick and egg it. I it more as he violated the Jedi tenats about relationships and then was suseptable to the dark side. Everyone can be a dick on a bad day. The dark side made him a dick all the time.

[Vengeance]

 Slow Ben, on 30 December 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

Also, who’s dick do I have to suck to get a good lightsaber fight?

I know it’s not required for a good Star Wars movie as, IMO, Rogue One was far and away the best of the new 3,

14 hours later and I’m still depressed.

Clone wars and rebals.. That is what you want. Ashokia versus Darth Vader in the sith temple.

[Slow Ben]

 Vengeance, on 30 December 2017 - 10:23 PM, said:

 Slow Ben, on 30 December 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

Also, who's dick do I have to suck to get a good lightsaber fight?

I know it's not required for a good Star Wars movie as, IMO, Rogue One was far and away the best of the new 3,

14 hours later and I'm still depressed.

Clone wars and rebals.. That is what you want. Ashokia versus Darth Vader in the sith temple.

Yes!

I needed a Star Wars palate cleanse so I re-started The Clone Wars. And i'm going to bite the bullet and buy Rebels.

[Andorion]

 Vengeance, on 30 December 2017 - 10:22 PM, said:

 polishgenius, on 30 December 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

 Vengeance, on 30 December 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 28 December 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

Steven Erikson recently posted a link to this interesting article, exploring the student/master issues in all the Star Wars films... Had some thoughts on Luke/Ben in TLJ.

https://nerdist.com/...c-relationship/

The author missed that the person who fathered Luke died when he went over to the dark side and became lord Vader. Luke didn't kill his father he saved him. There was abuse in the relationships but only from the introduction of the dark side. Anikan started to be a dick to Ashoka when he started to embrace it.

Urgh I hate this interpretation. Anakin went over to the dark side because he was a dick. To say otherwise invites the excuse, in real life as people relate to these characters, that 'it wasn't really me that did the bad things to you', and absolve oneself of responsibility.

Isn't being born again does absolves you of your prior sins.

You are chick and egg it. I it more as he violated the Jedi tenats about relationships and then was suseptable to the dark side. Everyone can be a dick on a bad day. The dark side made him a dick all the time.

Actually it was Anakin's inability to control his emotions combined with his growing frustration with the Jedi that made him vulnerable. I have always been very sceptical of the whole "relationships are bad" thing as by the old EU lots of ancient Jedi were married, had families etc.

It is very important to remember that as per the third movie, Anakin, in spite of everything upto that point had decided not to join the Sith. He told the council about Palpatine which resulted in Mace and Co. trying to arrest the Supreme Chancellor. Anakin arrives to see Mace trying to kill the Sith even though it seemed that the Sith was defeated and it was in violation of Jedi principles. At this crucial moment Palpatine once again appeals to him and this pushes him over the edge.

[rant]

 Andorion, on 31 December 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

 Vengeance, on 30 December 2017 - 10:22 PM, said:

 polishgenius, on 30 December 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

 Vengeance, on 30 December 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 28 December 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

Steven Erikson recently posted a link to this interesting article, exploring the student/master issues in all the Star Wars films... Had some thoughts on Luke/Ben in TLJ.

https://nerdist.com/...c-relationship/

The author missed that the person who fathered Luke died when he went over to the dark side and became lord Vader. Luke didn't kill his father he saved him. There was abuse in the relationships but only from the introduction of the dark side. Anikan started to be a dick to Ashoka when he started to embrace it.

Urgh I hate this interpretation. Anakin went over to the dark side because he was a dick. To say otherwise invites the excuse, in real life as people relate to these characters, that 'it wasn't really me that did the bad things to you', and absolve oneself of responsibility.

Isn't being born again does absolves you of your prior sins.

You are chick and egg it. I it more as he violated the Jedi tenats about relationships and then was suseptable to the dark side. Everyone can be a dick on a bad day. The dark side made him a dick all the time.

Actually it was Anakin's inability to control his emotions combined with his growing frustration with the Jedi that made him vulnerable. I have always been very sceptical of the whole "relationships are bad" thing as by the old EU lots of ancient Jedi were married, had families etc.

It is very important to remember that as per the third movie, Anakin, in spite of everything upto that point had decided not to join the Sith. He told the council about Palpatine which resulted in Mace and Co. trying to arrest the Supreme Chancellor. Anakin arrives to see Mace trying to kill the Sith even though it seemed that the Sith was defeated and it was in violation of Jedi principles. At this crucial moment Palpatine once again appeals to him and this pushes him over the edge.

Yea i always read it as fear of the future ( in particular Padme's death) that lead to the 'true' fall. Everything else were chips in the armor.

The armor being comfort in the face of uncertainty of outcome.

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes"

A Jedi (even with an emotional connection) should be comfortable with change ( i.e. loss).

Refusing to accept loss ( i.e. holding on to a loved one who has died, and somehow keeping them here ala plageis) is of the darkside.

This post has been edited by rant: 31 December 2017 - 01:59 AM

[rant]

 QuickTidal, on 28 December 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

 rant, on 28 December 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 28 December 2017 - 05:04 PM, said:

Yeah, this was established in the post-ROTJ Chuck Wendig books to a degree, and then moreso in the Leia BLOODLINE book as well.

It's also established that Mon Mothma decided that the Republic military (after the Empire were finally defeated and Mass Amedda [the big blue horned guy from the prequels] conceded the Empire to the Republic...after the defeat at Jakku) should be largely disbanded, and lessened to a fracitonary force to allay fears amongst the New Republic citizens that the mistakes of the old Republic or the Empire would not be repeated...which is arguably even STUPIDER of NuCanon to do with the galaxy than refusing to acknowledge Coruscant's value as the centre of gov't. So the fact that Leia has a Resistance military is predicated on the fact that Mon Mothma (in a move that [like a lot of NuCanon decisions] is COUNTER to who she is and what she represents) idioitalcly disbanded the Rebel Alliance military when it became a Republic....because the Republic apparently has no need of a large Military force...for some inexplicable reason. For me reading that was like the storytellers saying "We needed a reason why the First order EVER becomes a threat...and the only way to achieve that is to have the heroes disband their military so they are taken unawares!"....ugh...

But yeah, shifting the gov't around is a dumbass plot idea that the story group allowed through their net when JJ wanted to make it Hosnian Prime instead of Coruscant.

How interesting a story would TFA have been if the FO was a fascist terrorist splinter (as an inverse of the Rebel Alliance) of the Empire who refused to surrender, fighting a Republic (inverse of the Empire) that was trying to avoid the mistakes that lead to the empire (RE: concentration of power, military build-up) in the first place. Add to that FO goals literally being a slip to fascism within the Republic, so their supporters could take over (ala Palpatine)....culminating in the destruction of Coruscant. I'd watch that.

So many missed opportunities.

I agree, and that's one of my main issues with the new trilogy, this weird NEED to reset the table to two similar warring factions as the OT....instead of following the progression of the galaxy from the OT in a narratively normal way (New Republic and Imperial remnant).

It's like in the reach of Disney to re-set the table and make things "new"...they avoided the natural progression of the Galactic politics as the backdrop, and have tried instead to "force" (pun!) this re-do instead of Rebels VS Empire. Perhaps because of how daunting it is to write a story with the New Republic as the major government in the series going forward?

But I agree with you, there are a lot of missed opportunities here.

To be honest, I'd love to have seen what Dave Filoni might have done with the sequel trilogy from a story arc standpoint....I have a feeling it would have been MUCH more rewarding and progressive for the saga.

So, Ive been drinking. But its low yield so my partner didnt try to block anything (plus I think she likes it when my drunken energy is expended on nerd matters)...



And i just feel the need to remind QuickTidal, BriarKing and any traditional EU people that no matter what Disney, JJ, Rian ( and anyone who comes) does.....Wedge Antilles is the only pilot to survive BOTH Death Star runs.

[Andorion]

 rant, on 31 December 2017 - 02:07 AM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 28 December 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

 rant, on 28 December 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 28 December 2017 - 05:04 PM, said:

Yeah, this was established in the post-ROTJ Chuck Wendig books to a degree, and then moreso in the Leia BLOODLINE book as well.

It's also established that Mon Mothma decided that the Republic military (after the Empire were finally defeated and Mass Amedda [the big blue horned guy from the prequels] conceded the Empire to the Republic...after the defeat at Jakku) should be largely disbanded, and lessened to a fracitonary force to allay fears amongst the New Republic citizens that the mistakes of the old Republic or the Empire would not be repeated...which is arguably even STUPIDER of NuCanon to do with the galaxy than refusing to acknowledge Coruscant's value as the centre of gov't. So the fact that Leia has a Resistance military is predicated on the fact that Mon Mothma (in a move that [like a lot of NuCanon decisions] is COUNTER to who she is and what she represents) idioitalcly disbanded the Rebel Alliance military when it became a Republic....because the Republic apparently has no need of a large Military force...for some inexplicable reason. For me reading that was like the storytellers saying "We needed a reason why the First order EVER becomes a threat...and the only way to achieve that is to have the heroes disband their military so they are taken unawares!"....ugh...

But yeah, shifting the gov't around is a dumbass plot idea that the story group allowed through their net when JJ wanted to make it Hosnian Prime instead of Coruscant.

How interesting a story would TFA have been if the FO was a fascist terrorist splinter (as an inverse of the Rebel Alliance) of the Empire who refused to surrender, fighting a Republic (inverse of the Empire) that was trying to avoid the mistakes that lead to the empire (RE: concentration of power, military build-up) in the first place. Add to that FO goals literally being a slip to fascism within the Republic, so their supporters could take over (ala Palpatine)....culminating in the destruction of Coruscant. I'd watch that.

So many missed opportunities.

I agree, and that's one of my main issues with the new trilogy, this weird NEED to reset the table to two similar warring factions as the OT....instead of following the progression of the galaxy from the OT in a narratively normal way (New Republic and Imperial remnant).

It's like in the reach of Disney to re-set the table and make things "new"...they avoided the natural progression of the Galactic politics as the backdrop, and have tried instead to "force" (pun!) this re-do instead of Rebels VS Empire. Perhaps because of how daunting it is to write a story with the New Republic as the major government in the series going forward?

But I agree with you, there are a lot of missed opportunities here.

To be honest, I'd love to have seen what Dave Filoni might have done with the sequel trilogy from a story arc standpoint....I have a feeling it would have been MUCH more rewarding and progressive for the saga.

So, Ive been drinking. But its low yield so my partner didnt try to block anything (plus I think she likes it when my drunken energy is expended on nerd matters)...



And i just feel the need to remind QuickTidal, BriarKing and any traditional EU people that no matter what Disney, JJ, Rian ( and anyone who comes) does.....Wedge Antilles is the only pilot to survive BOTH Death Star runs.

Hidden force user. Luke totally overlooked him.

Wedge Antilles is Snoke!

[rant]

 Andorion, on 31 December 2017 - 02:57 AM, said:

 rant, on 31 December 2017 - 02:07 AM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 28 December 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

 rant, on 28 December 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 28 December 2017 - 05:04 PM, said:

Yeah, this was established in the post-ROTJ Chuck Wendig books to a degree, and then moreso in the Leia BLOODLINE book as well.

It's also established that Mon Mothma decided that the Republic military (after the Empire were finally defeated and Mass Amedda [the big blue horned guy from the prequels] conceded the Empire to the Republic...after the defeat at Jakku) should be largely disbanded, and lessened to a fracitonary force to allay fears amongst the New Republic citizens that the mistakes of the old Republic or the Empire would not be repeated...which is arguably even STUPIDER of NuCanon to do with the galaxy than refusing to acknowledge Coruscant's value as the centre of gov't. So the fact that Leia has a Resistance military is predicated on the fact that Mon Mothma (in a move that [like a lot of NuCanon decisions] is COUNTER to who she is and what she represents) idioitalcly disbanded the Rebel Alliance military when it became a Republic....because the Republic apparently has no need of a large Military force...for some inexplicable reason. For me reading that was like the storytellers saying "We needed a reason why the First order EVER becomes a threat...and the only way to achieve that is to have the heroes disband their military so they are taken unawares!"....ugh...

But yeah, shifting the gov't around is a dumbass plot idea that the story group allowed through their net when JJ wanted to make it Hosnian Prime instead of Coruscant.

How interesting a story would TFA have been if the FO was a fascist terrorist splinter (as an inverse of the Rebel Alliance) of the Empire who refused to surrender, fighting a Republic (inverse of the Empire) that was trying to avoid the mistakes that lead to the empire (RE: concentration of power, military build-up) in the first place. Add to that FO goals literally being a slip to fascism within the Republic, so their supporters could take over (ala Palpatine)....culminating in the destruction of Coruscant. I'd watch that.

So many missed opportunities.

I agree, and that's one of my main issues with the new trilogy, this weird NEED to reset the table to two similar warring factions as the OT....instead of following the progression of the galaxy from the OT in a narratively normal way (New Republic and Imperial remnant).

It's like in the reach of Disney to re-set the table and make things "new"...they avoided the natural progression of the Galactic politics as the backdrop, and have tried instead to "force" (pun!) this re-do instead of Rebels VS Empire. Perhaps because of how daunting it is to write a story with the New Republic as the major government in the series going forward?

But I agree with you, there are a lot of missed opportunities here.

To be honest, I'd love to have seen what Dave Filoni might have done with the sequel trilogy from a story arc standpoint....I have a feeling it would have been MUCH more rewarding and progressive for the saga.

So, Ive been drinking. But its low yield so my partner didnt try to block anything (plus I think she likes it when my drunken energy is expended on nerd matters)...



And i just feel the need to remind QuickTidal, BriarKing and any traditional EU people that no matter what Disney, JJ, Rian ( and anyone who comes) does.....Wedge Antilles is the only pilot to survive BOTH Death Star runs.

Hidden force user. Luke totally overlooked him.

Wedge Antilles is Snoke!

I think youve identified the only thing that would break star wars for me lol

[Abyss]

So basically, Wedge is Neville Longbottom... got it.