[Spoilsport Stonny]

Arathan's mother could be Ardata in that:

BLOOD AND BONE SPOILER!!!

Spoiler

there is the whole thing with trapping her daughter in that weird Himatan time thing. She may not want to lose another child.

Makes me think Arathan dies for some reason or another, and is just Arathan. Or the Builder. Or Batman.

[NefaraisBredd]

Arathans' mother may be an Azathanai or perhaps D'rek. He does end.up assuming an interesting role that lends creedence.to.my D'eek theory.

[Kanese S's]

Arathan is Iron-Bat-Wolverine.

Heard it here first.

[Khazduk]

Arathan is quite obviously a rat Han.

[fish321]

The Retired Bridgeburner, on 19 November 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

I'm very interested to see if we will still "not recognise" QB at the end of the Kharkanas trilogy or whether we will have built up more to go on.

Personally, I don't think the 7C mages are the only souls to be a part of QB. We know they are there for sure, but there's no point that I can think of (midway through a second read of MBotF at the moment, so I could very well have missed something) where we're definitively told there's nobody else in there too. The possibility occurred to me that there could already have been more than one soul in the mortal QB before the pursuit across Raraku - it opens up more possibilities for the conversation he has with "Mother" and "Father" at the Spar of Andii.

Personally one of the elements I love about SE's writing is his gleeful refusal to tell you everything. It gives you plenty for your brain to pick over, and that's always fun. I always have a vague imagining of him sitting about doing this while his readers mull it all over.

There is a memory of Quick Bens sister in HoC I think when she is recalling him waking up from a nightmare. While I can't recall the exact wording it is something along the lines of hI'm dreaming that he was wondering lost and had forgotten something and that something was how to live. It's possible that whoever the person is who becomes Quick Ben is going to die at some point in this series but become a part of the child born in 7c early on in his life. Beyond that the knowledge of soul shifting as he does in the desert when on the run has to come from somewhere. It's implied in GotM that the knowledge of how to do so has been lost for millennia and I don't see a normal child in 7c just picking it up. Maybe the first should he took into himself was disembodied already and taught him how to shift the others into himself. That one scene to me opens up the possibility of one extra soul bound into him early on that isn't in the list of mages from 7c as well as the possibility that we can't rule out anyone who may die in the kharkanas series

[Felisin Fatter]

fish321, on 30 June 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

Maybe the first should he took into himself was disembodied already and taught him how to shift the others into himself. That one scene to me opens up the possibility of one extra soul bound into him early on that isn't in the list of mages from 7c as well as the possibility that we can't rule out anyone who may die in the kharkanas series

Yes, and my favorite candidate for that is Malice, I think she ended up in that 7C child somehow (though not alone). Fits with the personality of little Ben, fits with the ambiguous mother/father/chains talk. And it'd be typical SE to have Malice on the side of 'Team Good', along with the gods of Shadow, Death and Assassins.

[fish321]

Felisin Fatter, on 01 July 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

fish321, on 30 June 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

Maybe the first should he took into himself was disembodied already and taught him how to shift the others into himself. That one scene to me opens up the possibility of one extra soul bound into him early on that isn't in the list of mages from 7c as well as the possibility that we can't rule out anyone who may die in the kharkanas series

Yes, and my favorite candidate for that is Malice, I think she ended up in that 7C child somehow (though not alone). Fits with the personality of little Ben, fits with the ambiguous mother/father/chains talk. And it'd be typical SE to have Malice on the side of 'Team Good', along with the gods of Shadow, Death and Assassins.

Oddly enough I hadn't considered her but it makes some sense. We have already seen that killing her isn't an easy process, or at least that death doesn't take much of a hold on her.

[tiam]

The only person that fits is the Jhag that he absorbs as we know Jaghut were the only race to fully master the Soletaken/Divers ritual. Also someone mentions there is no evidence of Tiste Andii on 7c. Plus alot of water under alot of bridges before the race across Raraku and we also have the fact that the HFE had widespread rituals of Soletaken so out of all of them there was clearly some mastery. Ho in ROCTG for example mimics Ryllandaras whose noted as one of the survivors of the HFE and is extremely powerful with seperate forms over different continents.

There is so much 7c history we dont know that I would look forward to a trilogy about that more than any other

[koehkont]

Did anyone notice that there is a mage in Midnight Tides called Arahathan? He is connected to the merchant that travels with Seren

[Egwene]

Recycling parts of names, I am guessing. I don't think that there is a connection to Arathan, although Arahathan was describes as being very powerful... so who knows...

[koehkont]

Egwene, on 08 August 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

Recycling parts of names, I am guessing. I don't think that there is a connection to Arathan, although Arahathan was describes as being very powerful... so who knows...

I'm rereading right now and couldn't really remember him. I just noticed the name while scanning the dramatis personae. Is there anything more mentioned about him? Arathan had something with his fingers or are there other character traids that might hint at Arathan? Most likely it is name recycling as you say, but it made my alarm bells go off.

[tiam]

Yes there is I think thats the one that dies before the female one jumps out of the tower aiming for the heart of the demon. Likely a name recycling also the Arathan we know isnt a mage though anythings possible.

[prq]

worry, on 25 November 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

I thought Topper was half TA...it's Pearl that's 1/4 TA IIRC.

Here's another crazy theory: could Topper be the son of Arathan and Feren?

[Luperci]

prq, on 28 August 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

worry, on 25 November 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

I thought Topper was half TA...it's Pearl that's 1/4 TA IIRC.

Here's another crazy theory: could Topper be the son of Arathan and Feren?

I doubt it, Topper is part human part Andii and just because there are all these characters in the books doesn't mean they all play a part in the series. I think Topper is just a powerful assassin/mage who had a half Andii Mother or Father. Since he doesn't show many Andii traits aside from white hair I assumed he was only 1/4 Tiste.

[heavymetaltroll]

In regards to Quick Ben remembering being a child in seven cities in no way rules out him being someone from FoD. We already know from Tatersail and the Wickans that rebirth is possible and a form of soul shifting essentially. This could well explain how he knew of soul shifting and countless rebirths could have clouded his memories and only as he grew older did his memories start to resurface, ironically after his encounter with Iccarium?

No seems to find how he was initially a practitioner of darkness (Rashan) relevant. He was a ranking priest of Seven cities shadow cult which worshiped not Meanas but Rasan.

[Puck]

heavymetaltroll, on 08 January 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

No seems to find how he was initially a practitioner of darkness (Rashan) relevant. He was a ranking priest of Seven cities shadow cult which worshiped not Meanas but Rasan.

Because it isn't, really, as Rashan and Meanas are different words for the same thing in Seven Cities. Basically, the Cult of Rashan and the warren Rashan are not the same thing. There are even instances where Rashan is said to be the domain of ST and Cots and iirc HoC makes a lot of fuss about how those two are so connected as to be basically the same thing. Kind of.

Quote

[...] Bidithal had not always been a High Mage. Not in title in any case. In the Dhobri language, he had been known as Rashan'ais. The archpriest of the cult of Rashan, which had existed in Seven Cities long before the Throne of Shadow had been reoccupied. In the twisted minds of humanity, it seemed, there was nothing objectionable about worshipping an empty throne. [...]
The cult of Rashan had not taken well the ascension of Ammanas – Shadowthrone – and the Rope into positions of penultimate power within the Warren of Shadow. Though Heboric's knowledge of the details was sketchy at best, it seemed that the cult had torn itself apart. Blood had been spilled within temple walls, and in the aftermath of desecrating murder, only those who acknowledged the mastery of the new gods remained among the devotees. To the wayside, bitter and licking deep wounds, the banished slunk away.

Quote

You are nothing, child. Not a dancer. Your body is in service to Rashan, and Rashan is this realm's manifestation of Shadow, the drawing of darkness to light. [...]

Quote

'I am no follower of Shadow – Rashan or your version—'
'That is not the loyalty I would call upon with you,' Cotillion replied.

Quote

It is not unusual to see the warrens of Meanas and Rashan as the closest of kin. Yet are not the games of illusion and shadow games of light? At some point, therefore, the notion of distinctions between these warrens ceases to have meaning. Meanas, Rashan and Thyr. Only the most fanatic of practitioners among these warrens would object to this. The aspect all three share is ambivalence; their games the games of ambiguity. All is deceit, all is deception. Among them, nothing – nothing at all – is as it seems.
A Preliminary Analysis of the Warrens
Konoralandas

Quote

[Bidithal] The smile grew more strained still. 'I was never a priest of Meanas.'
[Sha'ik] 'No, here it was Rashan, ghost-child of Kurald Galain... yet the warren it claimed was, none the less, Shadow. We are both well aware that the distinctions diminish the closer one delves into the mysteries of the most ancient triumvirate. Shadow, after all, was born of the clash between Light and Dark. And Meanas is, in essence, drawn from the warrens of Thyrllan and Galain, Thyr and Rashan. It is, if you will, a hybrid discipline.'

This post has been edited by Puck: 11 January 2015 - 11:39 AM

[Abyss]

Puck, on 11 January 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

heavymetaltroll, on 08 January 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

No seems to find how he was initially a practitioner of darkness (Rashan) relevant. He was a ranking priest of Seven cities shadow cult which worshiped not Meanas but Rasan.

Because it isn't, really, as Rashan and Meanas are different words for the same thing in Seven Cities. Basically, the Cult of Rashan and the warren Rashan are not the same thing. There are even instances where Rashan is said to be the domain of ST and Cots and iirc HoC makes a lot of fuss about how those two are so connected as to be basically the same thing. Kind of.
...

Yes and no.

Rashan and Meanas are not the same warren, but they draw from common origins.

There are a few possibilities, but the one i always liked was that when Kurald Emurlhan broke, it fractured into various things, including it's component parts... so from Elder Shadow, you get new shadow Meanas, darkness Rashan, and light Thyr. To compound things, because darkness and light and perceptions of the mind, you also get Mokra.

Then there's the theory that these are simply archetypcal or elemental forces harnassed when Krul worked him mojo with the dragons.

Both theories work together tho', if we decide that Krul shaped what was already there, including stray chunks of KE.

It does seem that many mages with access to Rashan, Meanas, Thyr or Mokra have some access to the them all. of course that may be more because the warrens resemble each other, than because access to one leads to access to more. After all, casting shadows to hide an advancing squad can be limited darkness, heavy shadow, dispelling light, and/or clouding observers' minds.

So back to the main point... QB's history with a temple of Rashan isn't necessarily determinate of anything other than a brief dalliance with religion or an alliance of convenience. QB straight out tells ST he was once one of his priests, which can only be a Shadow Cult, not darkness. When QB, Cots and Dassem purged Bidithal's cult, he pretended to be a visiting priest from an allied temple, which suggests an affinity for darkness, but QB being QB, he could have been faking it. And note that Lostara, who emerged from the same temple, was a Shadow Dancer.

[heavymetaltroll]

I get the intertwinnings of light/shadow/dark. My thought was more that QB's initial forays were with Rashan (darkness) as opposed to Meanas (shadow) as a possible nod to him being an Andii soul. While seven cities cult of Rashan is in essence a shadow cult, I would think it was far more darkness orientated than say Shadowtrhrones cult. Bidithal definitely had far more of a slant towards darkness than shadow, "do you remember the dark?". I'd think it far more likely that Quick Ben was indeed a fellow High Priest of Rashan who betrayed the cult in association with K+D and only after K became ST did he join the shadow cult and rise far.

[Puck]

Iirc, the general consensus is that QB left the cult when Kellanved ascended and became Shadowthrone, at which point QB already had risen within the cult.

[heavymetaltroll]

Puck, on 09 February 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

Iirc, the general consensus is that QB left the cult when Kellanved ascended and became Shadowthrone, at which point QB already had risen within the cult.

Haha general consensus? When is general consensus ever correct when it comes to Erikson? Seems far to personal to Shadowthrone for that to have been the case. I believe he says that QB "could have risen far in (MY) cult", to which QB replies that he did. Would it really have been ST's cult before he ascended?