[ChunkyBenjamin]

!!! Epiphany: Edgewalker is Malice! Its a play on words. What walks the edge (is the difference) between Envy and Spite? Plus her sisters burnt her down to bones in the oven after killing her a second time. Also "Edge" was reffered to as "elder" at some point I think.

[ChunkyBenjamin]

I am fairly sure 3/4ths of Icarium's grandparents are in this book (and maybe one parent) , but no way he's been born yet

[Kento]

so the jheleck hostages are the hounds of light, dark and shadow tulas shorn tamed the hounds and kagamandara tulas is charged with taming the hostages very sorry for the wrong spelling

[Asharak]

Another reason Ruthan Gudd could be Arathan, or at least an Azathanai, is that Tavore drawing her sword near him more than once would kill him. Makes sence that a being that is purely magical and shapeless in nature would be killed by being close to a magic negating sword.

This post has been edited by Asharak: 24 November 2012 - 05:57 PM

[The Swordbearer]

Hmm dont know about that Ash.
Arathan could be counted as Eldar Hold aspected magic system not as effected by Ottataral as the newer aspected magic. Tool demonstrated he was able to work around it in GoTM,

But I been wrong before

[Thepigthatflew]

Not sure if this belongs here, but I just finished Blood and Bone and had an interesting thought. So

Spoilers for Blood and Bone!

Spoiler

Old Man Moon is Old Man from FoD. Old Man seems to have an outer space aspect, Old Man Moon is related to the moon...But Im not an expert on either of those sections so I could have missed something that throws that idea out completely.

[tiam]

Yes arathan would not be affected by otateral thus it is unlikely hes ruthan gudd bar a transformation in the future. Ive mentioned this before.

Regarding icarium i think its plausible that he is in this trilogy. Given the isolation of the liosan and reference to the just wars with the fa and icariums title of slayer of the ten thousand its plausible he may appear. He will no doubt appear at some point as he was involved in the original sundering of emurlahn.

[Wol]

To be honest I'm wondering if the Just Wars were actually the war they fought with the Assail before the book. Simply because it was for the most part the Liosan anyway.

[IgnatiusKruppe]

Woah, Grizzin Farl just said "Aai!" On page 465.
I hereby renounce all evidence to the contrary and recognize Farl as Kruppe or One of his ancestors.
The second option is boring though. Only one man in history knows that word.
SE is begging us to draw a conclusion here, and it goes beyond Aai!
Kruppe is like Bottle, they got Grammas up in this piece!

[D'rek]

amphibian, on 21 August 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

I'm holding out hope that Arathan is Icarium and that the sundering of the Azath occurred because he was trying to kill Gothos or something other than what the legends say.

No matter what any of you say, I am still holding out for this one to be true... because I want GothosXDraconus

(and yes, that means when Draconus and Gothos were making the ugly Draconus was in a physical state that could be described as a hairy hag)

[Spoilsport Stonny]

The biggest trope buster of them all would be two male gods doin' it and having a kid who won't grow the fuck up. It could be SE's Holy Mountain ending or somesthings likes thats.

[nacht]

Malbolge, on 01 September 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

As far as Ruthan and his identity... I think there's perhaps one thing to look for. Martial prowess. Well, maybe not prowess... but just being a Soldier. Can't remember if it's DoD or tCG where someone asks him why he joined the Bonehunters, and he replies 'habit'. For me, that implies he's some sort of warrior or soldier, prior to his time under the Azath.

Grizzin Farl, I have no idea... but remember, he was 'bloody', which he hasn't shown much of yet. I'd expect the Grizzin Farl we know to change, somewhat, before he becomes the Grizzin Farl worshipped in the Temples found in the Imperial Warren. <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
Icarium is Jhag... so half Jhaghut, and the other half Thel or Toblakai (or so Karsa sees in him in RG). We haven't seen any Thel yet... just mention of the 1 sleeping Queen waking up.

I am going to put my bets on "Grizzin Farls is Ruthan"
The circumstantial evidence being (of course weak)

Quote

Ruthan Gudd clawed at his bead, reminding himself of the stranger's face he now wore.

Clearly some spirit is occupying some poor guys body.

Draconus could possibly be referring to him to him as "friend"...

Gizzin farl was the protector. That was his job.. but Draconus seems to be doing his own "protecting" interfering with Grizzin Farls job. They part on good terms but soon after that, Draconus creates Dragnipur and before that his actions result in creating the gates. So Grizzin is really pissed off with Draconus.
Grizzin is very cautious guy who is well aware of the law of unintended consequences... where as Draconus seems to be completely blind to the possibility that power draws power...

All gods were bloodthirsty (in the sense that they got a power boost when their followers did blood sacrifices). Even K'rul was a "bloodthirsty" god as he indicates in the MOI preview.

What does it mean to die in MBotF? It seems that gods are responsible for their followers souls or the souls end up with Hood. If Dragnipur killed them, the soul ends up in Dragnipur warren..
So what does it mean for an Azathanai to die. If the conscience can assemble itself coherently again, it will... otherwise it wanders around (like the Forkrullan god)

And of course the love of women.... and the general tenor of being laid back..

This post has been edited by nacht: 20 December 2012 - 07:19 PM

[Siergiej]

Quote

So Grizzin is really pissed off with Draconus.

I can't really imagine Grizzin Farl being pissed. And as for him being Ruthan... isn't GF mentioned in The Crippled God or Dust of Dreams as nowhere to be found? Ruthan is in the middle of the action. Personally I think Grizzin Farl is Grizzin Farl

This post has been edited by Siergiej: 22 December 2012 - 02:28 AM

[nacht]

Quote

The world shook. Balls of fire descending, the terrible light filling the sky.


Fists hammering the world. Wish I’d seen it. But he remembered the Azath’s deathcry. He remembered the gnarled trees engulfed in pillars of flames, the bitter heat of the soil he’d clawed through. He remembered staggering free beneath a crazed sky of lurid smoke, lightning and a deluge of ashes. He remembered his first thought, riding that breath of impossible freedom. Jacuruku, you’ve changed. One found loyalty under the strangest circumstances. Penitence and gratitude, arms entwined, a moment’s lustful exultation mistaken for worship. His gaze flicked back to Skanarow. The shadows and ill hue were gone. She slept, beauty in repose. Innocence was so precious. But do not think of me with love, woman. Do not force upon me a moment of confession, the truth of foolish vows uttered a lifetime ago. Let us play this game of blissful oblivion a little while longer. ‘It’s better this way, Draconus.’ ‘This is Kallor’s empire, friend. Will you not reconsider?’ Reconsider. Yes, there is that. ‘The shore seems welcoming enough. If I mind my own business . . .’ He’d smiled at that. And I smiled back. Draconus returned to that continent—I felt his footfalls, there inside my seemingly eternal prison. He returned to see for himself the madness of Kallor. You were right, Draconus. I should have minded my own business. For once. Can you hear me now? Draconus? Are you listening? I have reconsidered. At long last. And so I give you this. Find me, and one of us will die.

This is the Errant in DoD

Quote

‘I am not defied by choice. Draconus—within Dragnipur it’s not likely he hears anything. Grizzin Farl is, I think, dead. His corporeal flesh is no more.’ He hesitated, and then added with a scowl, ‘Ardata alone has managed to evade me, but she was never of much use anyway, was she?’

If Ruthan was Grizzin, this would be the sequence.

Grizzin moved to Jackruku
Met Draconus and had the conversation quoted above there.
Got imprisoned in an Azath
The fall of the CG and subsequent action by Kallor killed or weakened the Azath.
<This is where his recollection of Draconus coming back while he was in his prison>
Freed himself from it.



i am looking for the quote where it is mentioned that some powerful god was torn to pieces. I vaguely remember It was a temple (to a very bloodthirsty god) in either the imperial warren or in shadow and it involved either Quick Ben or Kiska/Leoman. Any suggestion on which book that is would be welcome..

[D'rek]

nacht, on 22 December 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

i am looking for the quote where it is mentioned that some powerful god was torn to pieces. I vaguely remember It was a temple (to a very bloodthirsty god) in either the imperial warren or in shadow and it involved either Quick Ben or Kiska/Leoman. Any suggestion on which book that is would be welcome..

The one that is a possible Grizzin Farl reference? It's in The Bonehunters - Kalam is climbing a Skykeep in the Imperial Warren, Quick Ben and Stormy below fall into a pit. Cotillion brings Kalam down and Cotillion muses on who the temple might belong to, listing a few possibilities including Grizzin Farl.

[nacht]

D, on 22 December 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

nacht, on 22 December 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

i am looking for the quote where it is mentioned that some powerful god was torn to pieces. I vaguely remember It was a temple (to a very bloodthirsty god) in either the imperial warren or in shadow and it involved either Quick Ben or Kiska/Leoman. Any suggestion on which book that is would be welcome..

The one that is a possible Grizzin Farl reference? It's in The Bonehunters - Kalam is climbing a Skykeep in the Imperial Warren, Quick Ben and Stormy below fall into a pit. Cotillion brings Kalam down and Cotillion muses on who the temple might belong to, listing a few possibilities including Grizzin Farl.

Thank you D'rek

Quote

Cotillion walked over to the nearest wall. 'Curious,' he said. 'This is a temple to an Elder God. Not sure which one. Kilmandaros, maybe. Or Grizzin Farl. Maybe even K'rul.' 'A rather bloody kind of worship,' Kalam muttered. 'The best kind,' Quick Ben said, brushing dust from his clothes. Kalam noted Cotillion's sly regard of the wizard and wondered at it. Ben Adaephon Delat, Cotillion knows something about you, doesn't he?

This is the quote but I might have got mixed up with another reference and location where some powerful god was torn to pieces..

This post has been edited by nacht: 23 December 2012 - 02:34 AM

[Silk]

and helps one realise why quick used the goat.................

[amphibian]

D, on 20 December 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

amphibian, on 21 August 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

I'm holding out hope that Arathan is Icarium and that the sundering of the Azath occurred because he was trying to kill Gothos or something other than what the legends say.

No matter what any of you say, I am still holding out for this one to be true... because I want GothosXDraconus

(and yes, that means when Draconus and Gothos were making the ugly Draconus was in a physical state that could be described as a hairy hag)

Funny, but what if Icarium was never the biological son of Gothos? We've enough history rearranging that this could be possible yet.

[worry]

On a nearly unrelated tangent, just re-read Stonewielder, and realizing that Serc is the Path of Sky and Storms, that maybe Osserc and Mael got it on long enough to create Beru. The Jheck seemed to worship the sea god as a female, at least.

[Rath Orlong]

I've wondered if Grizzin Farl is the FA god that was torn to pieces for his power (TCG). Maybe that's why his corporeal body possibly no longer exists. He was the husband of Kilmandaros, after all (FoD). Maybe the FA worshipped him as a father/god figure, then tore him to pieces when he wouldn't back their play.