[bumsrush]

Also doubt very much G.F was the father of Ferens first child. Unless iv misread, the first and only time they have met is the scene with Draconus, Arathan and the other borderswords.

[Puck]

Actually, I just reread that passage again and yes, they do meet for the first time then.

Which is also the night she sleeps with GF, duh.

[sting01]

Not sure if that have already be noted, but Arathan is a lot like Ruthan Gudd.

He know quite well Draconus, he is NOT a God, he love to hide from others, he is a good lover (great love making).

Just my 2 cents

[James Hutton]

Ceda Cicero, on 18 September 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

Siergiej, on 18 September 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

Gothos as Azathanai patron of the Jaghut actually sounds pretty cool, but I think his children are kind of problematic here. Children of other Azathanai/Elder Gods are Azathanai themselves: Sechul Lath, Errastas, Spite, Envy, Malice, presumably Arathan too. Icarium and Raest seem to be almost casual Jhag nd Jaghut - only with the exception for the fact, that they are ridiculously powerful

I mean, do we have any evidence explicitly contradicting the possibility that Icarium and Raest are (unbeknownst to themselves, at least) Azathanai? I know all signs point to Jhag/Jaghut and there's certainly nothing explicitly in favor of the argument.

I thought that in HoC Aramala (the Jaghut woman Karsa frees from her hot-rock-prison) implies that a Jhag is a half-Toblakai/half-Jaghut.

[tiam]

I dont think Gothos is an Azathanai. I do like the godlike Azathanai creating life like the Valheru in Feists world. I think Gothos was just one of the first Jaghut who took what they were doing to its logical conclusion. It wouldnt surprise me to find out that they had the first civilisation ever seen as theres is already over by the time MD even exists.

Yes Aramala does imply, and Karsa outright states in RG, that Icarium is half Toblakai though of course this could be half Thel Akai. The Liosan call him the slayer of the ten thousand so he could well have a part to play in this trilogy.

Another unaccounted war is the Liosan warring with the FA, which is the Just Wars mentioned in RG. Urusanders obsession with justice, the likely hood of him being father light and his admiration of Forulkan culture shows the basis for the Liosan. It will be interesting to see what makes them go to war again. Its possible Kily will set the Forulkan on the Tiste again when she senses weakness and civil war causing the Legion to fight them again.

The Thel Akai are the real mystery as far as I am concerned as there is mention of their disavowal, mention of their songs recording that the Azathanai created races, mentions of a KCCM/NR army being beaten by them in DOD/TCG. We need more information on these peoples.

This post has been edited by Jean-Claude Van tiam: 02 October 2012 - 04:24 PM

[Cold]

In TCG everybody was wondering who the hell Ruthan Gudd was. We know that he's Elder (so called by Tlan Imass), Stormriderish, "borrowed" ice-magic (according to himself in TCG) knows some sex tricks and realized who, partly, Quick Ben was when Quick's last name was revealed to him. Ruthan had a habit of fingering his beard. Likes to be alone. Knows Draconus from very early time, before Anomander put him away. Didn't he also want to kill Draconus? Crawled out from underneath an Azath? Called Quick Ben an Elder?

It shouldn't be such a big surprise that we might get to know him a lot better in FoD. We have Arathan (-> Aruthan -> Ruthan) an Azathanai who isn't much interested to become a god. So, a few dog-runners would call him what then? An Elder, perhaps? He had a bad habit of eating his fingers. Likes to be alone. Gothos said his name meant Walk on water.. Well as a kid he walked on ice and fell, almost died. His sisters thought that the falling through ice changed him. Arathan is going to have a new master, Gothos himself, the grand master of Omtose Phellack, which is pretty cold magic. Cold enough to conjure an armor of ice. He also got to know some nice tricks how to satisfy a woman in bed. All thanks to Feren!

I haven't finished FoD yet, but I'm sure he's gonna know Korya pretty well.. So well that in a far future, it's not hard to recognize an old friend's genius, doll-loving, mindplay when one clue, in a form of a name, is given.
Btw. Isn't Korya very important part of Tiste sorcery? Andii Sorcery? If she was alive in Malazan times, I'd call her Magus of Dark

"Gothos grunted. ‘And do you?’
‘What?’
‘Walk on water, for such is the Azathanai meaning of your name.’
‘No sir. Even upon ice, I broke through, and came near to drowning.’
‘Do you now fear it?’
‘Fear what, sir?’
‘Water? Ice?’
Arathan shook his head."

Aruthan is the Batman of Wu. The Azathman! Nananana..

This post has been edited by Cold: 06 October 2012 - 02:01 AM

[worry]

I agree. Unless he's not! Then I will disagree. Hope this post covers me.

[Lady Bliss]

Cold, on 06 October 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

In TCG everybody was wondering who the hell Ruthan Gudd was. We know that he's Elder (so called by Tlan Imass), Stormriderish, "borrowed" ice-magic (according to himself in TCG) knows some sex tricks and realized who, partly, Quick Ben was when Quick's last name was revealed to him. Ruthan had a habit of fingering his beard. Likes to be alone. Knows Draconus from very early time, before Anomander put him away. Didn't he also want to kill Draconus? Crawled out from underneath an Azath? Called Quick Ben an Elder?

It shouldn't be such a big surprise that we might get to know him a lot better in FoD. We have Arathan (-> Aruthan -> Ruthan) an Azathanai who isn't much interested to become a god. So, a few dog-runners would call him what then? An Elder, perhaps? He had a bad habit of eating his fingers. Likes to be alone. Gothos said his name meant Walk on water.. Well as a kid he walked on ice and fell, almost died. His sisters thought that the falling through ice changed him. Arathan is going to have a new master, Gothos himself, the grand master of Omtose Phellack, which is pretty cold magic. Cold enough to conjure an armor of ice. He also got to know some nice tricks how to satisfy a woman in bed. All thanks to Feren!

I haven't finished FoD yet, but I'm sure he's gonna know Korya pretty well.. So well that in a far future, it's not hard to recognize an old friend's genius, doll-loving, mindplay when one clue, in a form of a name, is given.
Btw. Isn't Korya very important part of Tiste sorcery? Andii Sorcery? If she was alive in Malazan times, I'd call her Magus of Dark

"Gothos grunted. 'And do you?'
'What?'
'Walk on water, for such is the Azathanai meaning of your name.'
'No sir. Even upon ice, I broke through, and came near to drowning.'
'Do you now fear it?'
'Fear what, sir?'
'Water? Ice?'
Arathan shook his head."

Aruthan is the Batman of Wu. The Azathman! Nananana..

Just finished, and this was my thought exactly! One other thing about Arathan though... I have no quote fu for you all, but remember when OE and Draconus were talking about their daughters and their names? I thought Draconus implied the names were his own sins. Then OE asked what Arathan's name was and he told her and she laughed. So what is Arathan's other name? I would think a negative emotion like Lust or Anger.

I don't think we've seen Quick Ben yet, but I think that the dolls and Korya are building up to his introduction. I think it's inevitable that those two will hook up so maybe their son.

For Korlat...

Quote

"Korlat, daughter of Sandalath Drukorlat, The Sister of Night in the House of the Shake is not for one of the pure blood –"

"Forgive me, Queen, but my blood is not pure."

Yan Tovis paused, and then continued, "The blood of the Eleint –"

"Queen, my blood is not pure." - Korlat & Yan Tovis (TCG)

So Sandalath gets it on with someone that is NOT Tiste and has Korlat.

And Malice... any possibility that she is tied to Kettle?

[Destiny]

Lady Bliss, on 06 October 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

...

For Korlat...

Quote

"Korlat, daughter of Sandalath Drukorlat, The Sister of Night in the House of the Shake is not for one of the pure blood –"

"Forgive me, Queen, but my blood is not pure."

Yan Tovis paused, and then continued, "The blood of the Eleint –"

"Queen, my blood is not pure." - Korlat & Yan Tovis (TCG)

So Sandalath gets it on with someone that is NOT Tiste and has Korlat.

And Malice... any possibility that she is tied to Kettle?

I always assumed Sandalath got it on with Draconus and then had Korlat. I'm curious to see whether that's confirmed in a later book.

As for Kettle, wasn't she just a human child from Letheras? Though I do recall there being some kind of connection between her and the FA. Can't remember what though.

[Siergiej]

And isn't Korlat referring to the fact that she is the effect of rape?

[BeLeG]

I think someone mentioned this already but Old Man reminds me of Kaminsod(CG)
outer space aspected and ring tatoos all over him...which remind me of links that create a chain

but he can't really be the CG...

[worry]

The moon god/Grallin idea appeals to me re: Old Man, though I'm still not ruling out Edgewalker just until we see more.

Also, it occurred to me randomly that he might just stay Old Man or even give that up, and be related to the Nameless Ones eventually. It's pretty intriguing stuff.

[Kanese S's]

Siergiej, on 06 October 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

And isn't Korlat referring to the fact that she is the effect of rape?

Given earlier actions, I was actually suspecting that Spite and Envy were going to rape Sand or force someone else to.

[Abyss]

Just to complicate things on the Korya Delath front further, in TtH Baruk receives a book from Rake. It's authored by 'Dillat' and includes a presumably wholy inaccurate description of Rake and Ossi's arguments, along with references to them both worshipping 'the thousand gods'.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Abyss, on 09 October 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

Just to complicate things on the Korya Delath front further, in TtH Baruk receives a book from Rake. It's authored by 'Dillat' and includes a presumably wholy inaccurate description of Rake and Ossi's arguments, along with references to them both worshipping 'the thousand gods'.

That was a typo. It was actually a "Dilbert" book; an hilarious collection of office cubicle-based wry observations in a daily comic strip format.

No, but seriously, obfuscation is way too prevalent to do anything more than conjecture who is who. As long as no one is named Kyle, I look forward to seeing how SE handles this.

[Abyss]

Stalking Stonny, on 09 October 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

...As long as no one is named Kyle, I look forward to seeing how SE handles this.

Kyle is Arathan. You read it here first.
Also, Redmask.

- Abyss, ...may be wrong

[Seatiger]

Two questions about identities (I'm still only 150 pages in) However id like to know

who is T'riss ? My first thought was K'rul but then I was thinking maybe burn? anyway who is she?

Any chance topper appears in this book?

[Orlion]

Seatiger, on 22 October 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

Two questions about identities (I'm still only 150 pages in) However id like to know

who is T'riss ? My first thought was K'rul but then I was thinking maybe burn? anyway who is she?

Any chance topper appears in this book?

Well, Stonewielder/OST "spoilers" (as in not really, but some people are really anal about these things)

Spoiler

T'riss is the Queen of Dreams.

[Seatiger]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

The Queen of Dreams was revealed as T'riss way back in HoC:

Quote

"L'oric closed his eyes, and called upon the Queen of Dreams. 'By your true name, T'riss, I would speak with you. In Osric my father's name, hear my prayer...' (HoC, UK Trade, p.428)

The QoD has alot to still play out here. In fact, she's the biggest mystery, at least as far as whats in the book. We can speculate on who is Quick ben all day, and, as fun as that is, I'd also like to discuss what the QoD's plan is here. She sailed on the Vitr in a vitr-proof vessel, possibly with Ardata, lands on the shore, takes some vitr to the tiste and it turns some black and via a mhybe turns some white. OK. What the fuck for? Are they being chosen to represent different holds now that magic is ceasing to wander? Is the enmity between the tistes part of her design, or is that a product of their own personalities and flaws, i.e. Hunn Raal's manipulations...? She eventually tours the realms with Brood and Rake, doing who knows what, though I am sure that will be something addressed in FoL. What do you think her plans are in the long game? I'll be happy to open a new topic, but for now this may just be part of a larger discussion...

This post has been edited by Stalking Stonny: 23 October 2012 - 02:38 PM