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George RR Martin Rate Topic: -----

#421 Guest_Medium-Paced Ben_*

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 10:26 PM

Martin has by far the best characters I have ever read. Ever.
To me they are real people, they think and act and react to life like real people, and they have an enormous amount of depth.

I love Mieville, and Erikson, and a bunch of other fantasy/sci-fi writers, but not one of them can even come close to matching Martin's characters IMHO.
Mieville is a great world-builder, and he has some bloody awesome ideas, but I always feel distanced from his characters. Same goes for a lot of Erikson's characters, to a lesser extent.
And as for Jordan...any good characters that he did have when WoT started have since turned into cardboard caricatures of themselves in the last 3 or 4 books. And he can't write believable female characters at all. Every one of them thinks and acts and speaks the same way, and it ain't like any women I've ever met (perhaps I've been lucky Posted Image). Perhaps Jordan has issues with women?

In short, I don't think any other fantasy writer has characters that come close to Martin's. But thats just my opinion.
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#422 Guest_PUG_*

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 03:03 PM

I'll see if I can find it tonight. My apologies if I am wrong, but I know that if I thought that I had just killed the Bastard of Bolten and I saw his men coming, knowing the history of the House I would not just throw my arm out so he could lop it off. I would be friendly, but have the men ready for trouble. The Bolten's have a poor history. The flayed man represents a Stark does it not, and the boulder scene was just alittle too much, it felt like I was watching a cartoon. He shouldn't have backed himself into that corner, surely he could have come up with something different.
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#423 Guest__*

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 09:01 PM

I absolutely agree with Spindle: in The Wheel of time, every characters should be killed in the most painful ways, especially Rand, excepted for Mat and Lan (and Min too). If I want whining and wailing, I'll go talk to my sisters, it's free.

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"There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself."

"The long goodbye" by Raymond Chandler
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#424 User is offline   voland 

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Posted 14 January 2003 - 02:45 AM

Oops, forgot about Cersei. Yes, she is the new PoV. Guess I don't spend enough time in the forums other than misc.

I always think, present company excluded of course, that there's something unpleasant lurking in people who avoid drinking, gambling, table talk and pretty women
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#425 Guest_Erebus_*

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Posted 30 August 2002 - 08:15 PM

Well, as far as I'm concerned, I care about Daenerys, Tyrion, Sansa (nothing good ever happens to her...) and (curiously) Jaime. I care about Arya but she's annoying me. I don't care a lot about Jon or Bran and I really REALLY don't care about Kathryn.

Aan'allein : I see your point but I think you're exaggerating. Not every random character is a complete *******, far from it. There are good guys outside of the Stark family. And, though some characters are definitely evil (ie, Geoffrey), many more are actually "grey", somewhere in between, which IS more realistic. Many characters care only about their personal interest and not about others, that doesn't necessarily make them evil.
As for the deaths of main characters, well, there's nothing wrong about trying to have an effect (though I'll admit Martin tries too often to surprise the reader). Still, though these deaths are often surprising (just like in real life...), they're well woven into the plot. And since there are many main characters, one or two can die without leaving too huge a gap.
As for the PoV, I actually rather like the way Martin uses them. It's a bit frustrating sometimes, but it also keep the interest up. Not too mention I dislike having to read about Kathryn for too long... Anyway, keep in mind it could be much worse. See how Jordan manages *his* numerous characters ? Perrin appearing in the first 20 pages of Heart of Winter (without actually doing anything) and then disappearing for the rest of the book ? Now, THAT's annoying.


Erebus
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#426 User is offline   Anomander Rake 

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Posted 22 April 2003 - 03:36 AM

I'm re-reading AGOT, and boy it is excellent. lol, I've only read it once before. So I'm starting to notice also these little hints of where betrayals will appear that i didn't in the first read.

Posted Image Hood's Breath
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#427 Guest_Jon_Snow_*

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 03:56 PM

I've read "Arms of the Kraken" many times and it is incredible.
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#428 User is offline   Clarkesworld Books 

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 12:47 PM

He's normally pretty good about the updates on his site too. I have to remember to check with the publisher on the release date. Someone else told me that they want to have it done by the WFC (late this summer.) I hope that they can pull it off.

Neil Clarke
Clarkesworld Books
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#429 Guest__*

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Posted 13 September 2002 - 05:34 PM

I liked them but good half of the characters pissed me off. The ones I liked best were Tyrion, Jaime, and Jon Snow (and the late, great Ned Stark). I did not like Arya, Bran
or Sansa (she brought it on herself). I like the way all his characters are more complex than being either a 'goodie' or 'baddie' and the way that Jaime's redeeming feature is his greatest sin (his love for his sister).

Just my two cents.
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#430 User is offline   Anomander 

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 03:21 PM

Hmm, just bought the first book in Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" series. Hoping it's as good as you've all said. Posted Image

And so the First denied their Mother,
in their fury, and so were cast out,
doomed children of Mother Dark.
And so the First denied their Mother,
in their fury, and so were cast out,
doomed children of Mother Dark.
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#431 Guest_littlefinger_*

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Posted 05 July 2003 - 03:47 AM

i think GRRM does a far better job of involving you with his characters than jordan.after all the does that woolhead love me rubbish and stagnant characters(i think jordan was best when he turned a farm boy into the dragon reborn ie. when he developed)i almost know what will happen next.i don't care because they don't change and i'm so sure it'll all work out.GRRM is willing to sacrafice his characters to make you worry about them.they aren't all good eg.sansa(remind anyone of another brood of self indulgent brats?egwene,elaine...)but if i think the dwarf can be killed then i care more that he lives.

Every throne is an arrow-butt
kellanved
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#432 Guest__*

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Posted 18 September 2002 - 07:29 AM

well... I have one question
I'm pretty sure that the giant wolf that leads the wolves around the realm is Nymeria... is that true?

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#433 User is offline   lfex 

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Posted 23 April 2003 - 11:16 PM

«but i wish that he wouldn't use their names as the chapter titles...»

That would sort of destroy the point, wouldn't it? If you had only numbers, it would be far less clear, and names and numbers as Sansa I, Sansa II don't look very pretty. As for actual titles, come on, in modern times you rarely see this in novels (except for kids' books, perhaps). It is so nineteenth century!

Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way.

[This message was edited by lfex on 24 April 2003 at 12:33 AM.]
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#434 Guest_The Shadowlord_*

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Posted 05 April 2003 - 12:20 AM

hmmm, i didn't like Martin that much... Mieville, then Erikson, then Michael Cobley for me...

To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower:
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.
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#435 Guest__*

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Posted 02 March 2003 - 10:25 PM

I'm the same way. I'd rather read a great book two years from now than an okay book two months from now. If I just want okay reading I can read something else.

I'm glad he's not just jumping six years ahead, either - there'd be too much of a gap, and it'd be hard to believe that nothing of note happened to any of the characters in all that time.
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#436 Guest_Dark Daze_*

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Posted 21 March 2004 - 01:35 AM

Martin's world may not be more complicated than the world Erikson created, but his style is much more complicated because of the political intrigue, suspense, more detailed characterisation, more focused story, and so forth.
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#437 Guest_Pale Remnants_*

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 05:02 AM

As i've just mentioned on another topic. GRR ( the perfectionist sod) has put back the release date for Part Four. He's apparently not finished it yet.

I imagine he's upset after losing the Hugo to JK Rowling ( they should have given it to Jamie Delano.As "Potter" is just a rip off of his work on "The Books Of Magic")

So i expect you'll have the time to read parts one-three, a few times over.
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#438 Guest_Blinky_*

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Posted 29 March 2003 - 03:06 PM

--
Pale:
@Blinky.The sexual content is very minor.And remember we are dealing with characters in a medieval setting.This is not a childrens story.
Strange, you do not have the same problem with the level of violence...?
--
Sexual content doesn't seem minor to me.
Points taken; however, If i want to read about sex, i'll pick up a harlequin.

Still wondering what others feel? I'm probably in the minority on this one.
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#439 User is offline   Lady Atheilen 

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Posted 10 February 2003 - 04:34 PM

No, I was just repeating what those idiots (no offense to anyone) said.

"All that breaks must be discarded, even as the thunder of faith returns ever fading echoes."-Anomandaris-Fisher Kel'Tath
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#440 Guest_Izz_*

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 06:07 PM

I highly doubt that George would let us down. Frankly, I don't see how he even could.

Anyways, I'm betting that the following book will come out much faster. Most fans should know of the complications George had after ASOS going into book 4, and although it isn't a great excuse for such the long delay, it is an excuse nonetheless. Since George didn't originally intend to put in the time that AFFC covers, I think it was certainly a large contribution to the wait.

I think book 5 will be much easier and faster for him to write.
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