[Rashan]

Hah. At least we know that you're Town, Sil. That way we don't have to lynch you for not being able to reveal anything. Cough The Hamlet cough.

[Korvalain]

Mockra, on 14 March 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Tellan, on 14 March 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

Mockra, on 14 March 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

Ok caught up. Quite a lot of stuff for day 1.

I am not sure about the Rashan thing the initial case didnt' really strike me as much, but I found the way Tellan has seemed to defend it has made it scummier to me. If someone has a problem with something Rashan has said, then Rashan should explain himself which he did, quite well not sure why Tellan thought he should come along and stick his oar in as well.

What other cases were going? Fener for being Fener or Karosis for changing around votes...Commenting on cases and getting involved in discussion is sort of the point.

Mockra, on 14 March 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

If your inno and got 2 or 3 votes on day 1 and your giving up? I wanna see you fight as well to not be lynched. And Tellan seemed to find that people wanting Rashan to fight is odd? Why is it odd?

Because he couldn't say anything further against the case. The level resignation was a bit weird, but telling him to fight more at a stage where he can't say anything against a case just seems to be encouraging over-reaction, which I find scummy.

Mockra, on 14 March 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

Other thing I found vaguely unsettling was Korvalain and his vote on Fener which he claimed he was doing as he was following his glorious leaders lead. Which was wrong of course, and when called out on it he still continued to happily vote Fener for some other reason. Guess its only vote 2 or something on Fener so wasn't a big deal, however Korvalain had replied to Silanahs initial vote where he voted for Rashan previously and had commented he found Rashan to be suspicous or whatever so I guess he may have just forgotten all of that. . And it seems like such an outlandish slip its no way it was possible.
Still would like to hear from Korvalain anyway just to clear it up.

Looking back, there is a 5 hour gap between Korv quoting Silanah's vote on Rashan and his vote for Fener. He checks and admits the mistake when it's pointed out that Silanah didn't vote Fener. Seems like it could just be a simple bit of forgetfulness. Nothing particularly suspect imo.

Sorry had a busy day and couldn't really post today. Just catching up a litlte.

Well Tellan I guess was its more a pattern of you defending Rashan as it seemed on a few occasions there, then making a case and putting a vote on the person who tried to prod Rashan. While it was the only game in town at the time, I found your efforts made it look worse than it may have been.

As to Korvalain, sure he may have forgotten, but if he was voting because Silanah was voting for that person, then when he found out Silanah was voting for someone else the same someone Korv had said he was a little scummy, then why make up another reason and keep the vote on Fener and not switch? If it was Day 3, I'd find it seriously weird, but since its Day 1 I was almost going to it slide but got a vaguely bad vibe from Korvalain and wanted to put it out there.

Okay finally got caught up to your posts here Mockra. I was just going to ignore it because anyone with half a brain would realize what actually happened. But since you are so hung up on the fact that I had a brain fart and forgot who voted for who 5 hours earlier as Tellan mentioned I'll repeat what he said I fogot who voted for who. If you noticed, I didn't use the quote box to to verify who actually voted for who so you can see how it happened. When I realized my mistake I kept it there because I never intended to vote for Rashan.

My goal was and still is to vote for a low poster. Fener fit that category at that time and actually still does and I thought that Silanah had cast that vote for Fener. I was wrong so sue me.

Now I had some posts that I wanted to quote regarding the very little setup speculation that has happened on thread but I screwed the pooch and will have to go on memory again so in advance I bet your forgiveness if I get some things wrong. I have no idea how Shin did the set up for this game. We know we have town and we know we have cult. Someone speculated that town has the killing roles but I find that hard to believe but it's possible. I don't know how many cults are out there either. And I don't know if one of the scum factions is a more traditional killer role fighting off all the town and the other cult factions or if scum is a combination of killer/recruiter. One thing I'm fairly certain on but may be off base but it's the reason why I feel we would be better off getting rid of low posters is the fact that I think there are more than one cult faction out there.

I feel that the cult will target players that are not likely to get much heat because they don't say all that much. Another reason to go after the low posters is that cult will need a few days to gather their numbers so low posting would be a great way of staying alive for a few days to get some numbers. Either way I think that is the way to go.

[D'riss]

Since we seem to be all over the place... I have created a visual aid to help us in our selection:

[Korvalain]

Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 14 March 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

W. T. F.

Looks like I need to get some catching up to do and there seems to be plenty of time left to do it.

Pointless post. Random W.T.F., pretending to be confused or bothered by the way the thread is going.

Scum.

Put a cork in it. I logged in and skimmed some posts trying to find out how much time was left to know if I had time for a catch up before time out. This post is in reference to all the multicolored posts that have cluttered up the thread. And even after the read up I stand by those three letters. Way to piss off someone that actually thinks we should keep you around because, you know, I actually agree with most of the rest of the shit you are saying. Especially regarding more needed discussion on how this game might actually be set up.

[Tellan]

Starting to feel suspicious towards Rashan. Ever since I got accused of defending him he's done nothing but distance. Seems like he's expecting to be symped and thinks I'm it because I didn't like Atrahal.

[Korvalain]

Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Quote

I literally have no time but my post was not about you it was about Serc. I mentioned you, Korv and Karosis but I wanted to hear from Serc, yet you took this to be about you. So he mentions executioners and you come out with killer pair who are unrecruitable? We don't even know if there are killers in this game yet, or how many there are. You surprise me.

If I had more time I'd go through the thread again but it took me a few hours to analyse it this morning and I won't have any more until later.

I know it was about Serc. You accused me at the same time. I refuted you about me, and told you I didn't feel Serc was anymore scummy than any of the other players.

Can you really not read? Barghast was wondering if there are killers in the game. I said there must be, it would be odd to have a game of Mafia with no deaths at night. Then I said that the killer would either be Silanah, or he'd have paired killers who are unrecruitable under his command. Now that I think about it, it would make more sense to have a single unrecruitable killer under his command, if we look at it from that angle. But I still stand by that it is likely that Silanah has a kill herself. In fact, why don't we just ask her.

Sil?

There's nothing wrong with this speculation. You see things where this is nothing, though I suppose that's normal in mafia.

How can Silanah have killing powers? Think of the balance of the game. If we have a player that can't be removed at all from the game whos vote counts and can kill at night? How can he lose? It doesn't make any sense. I agree that someone has killing powers but I don't think it can be Silanah. At least not infinite killing powers anyway.

[Atrahal]

Korvalain, on 14 March 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Quote

I literally have no time but my post was not about you it was about Serc. I mentioned you, Korv and Karosis but I wanted to hear from Serc, yet you took this to be about you. So he mentions executioners and you come out with killer pair who are unrecruitable? We don't even know if there are killers in this game yet, or how many there are. You surprise me.

If I had more time I'd go through the thread again but it took me a few hours to analyse it this morning and I won't have any more until later.

I know it was about Serc. You accused me at the same time. I refuted you about me, and told you I didn't feel Serc was anymore scummy than any of the other players.

Can you really not read? Barghast was wondering if there are killers in the game. I said there must be, it would be odd to have a game of Mafia with no deaths at night. Then I said that the killer would either be Silanah, or he'd have paired killers who are unrecruitable under his command. Now that I think about it, it would make more sense to have a single unrecruitable killer under his command, if we look at it from that angle. But I still stand by that it is likely that Silanah has a kill herself. In fact, why don't we just ask her.

Sil?

There's nothing wrong with this speculation. You see things where this is nothing, though I suppose that's normal in mafia.

How can Silanah have killing powers? Think of the balance of the game. If we have a player that can't be removed at all from the game whos vote counts and can kill at night? How can he lose? It doesn't make any sense. I agree that someone has killing powers but I don't think it can be Silanah. At least not infinite killing powers anyway.

Well, they could easily lose by killing off their fellow townies, no? Anyhoo, this speculation is fairly moot at present - certainly far too early for us to know anything yet.

[Atrahal]

Tellan, on 14 March 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Starting to feel suspicious towards Rashan. Ever since I got accused of defending him he's done nothing but distance. Seems like he's expecting to be symped and thinks I'm it because I didn't like Atrahal.

LOL. Do I dare to raise Tellan's ire and suggest he is now seeking to as clumsily distance from Rashan as he previously defended?


By the way, I haven't used 'lol' in about twelve years, but it felt extremely appropriate this time

[Silanah]

I won't vote for Tellan today , as I see this more as a jumpy townie, though this could be a jumpy symp realizing his mistake too late. I will wait till Day 2 to make my final opinion, but thats where I am on the Tellan case right now

[Kalse]

Back and Catching up. I'll be here for the next 6 hrs and then out, so will miss the last 3 hours of the day most likely. Will catch up and give my thoughts.

[Korvalain]

Something came up where it will take me away from the computer for many hours. Not sure if I will make it back before the end of the day.

[Barghast]

I have fianlly awoken, and shall go see what my fellow ministers have said since my absence.

[Barghast]

Gamelon, on 14 March 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Liosan is bothering me, but for now I'm putting it down to the excessive RP. I'm all for a bit of RP, Lio, but not to the point where it's makes what you're saying obscure.

I'm surprised Tellen is still talking about Rashan, to be honest. I'm unsure what it is that gives Tellen their level of certainty. But the colours are hurting my eyes, and will require rereading, I'm assuming it's in there. Not gunna lie, I skim read the shit out this last bit of thread.

Like Emur I dislike that Fener currently has the most votes. Joke votes are good and well, but we've got a couple of cases floating, and quite frankly if day one is going to be a "crapshoot" I'd rather it was one which generates some discussion.

Tired. Sleep time. Good night.

Whilst the votes on Fener started as jests, his participation to date has been anyhting but constructive. I see no point of removing my vote as of yet.

This post has been edited by Barghast: 14 March 2012 - 06:36 PM

[Kalse]

Well, we have a lot to go on. The person who really has my ire (possibly OMGUS, but more likely cause he comes across as a pompus ass trying to run the thread) is Karosis. He seems to take the tact that his ways are superior and that we all need to follow his way of thinking. To me it comes across as scum trying to run the game. Like he is typing to seem busy and just type what comes to mind with no thought into the posts. Some examples:

He calls out multiple people on their first posts. (Underlined Mine).

Karosis, on 14 March 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

*snip of someones first post*

You know what really grinds my gears? Posts like this one. Just because it's your first post, doesn't mean you can't have had a look at the thread and have something interesting to say when you make it. It would be fine if he had something to follow this up, but this is just obnoxious! I'm almost tempted to switch my vote to him just to make a statement...


Tennes did the same thing, but at least had the decent to explain why he couldn't post any more.

Ok, I can see what he's saying. It is nice to say something in your first post, but it's day 1... it's your first post. What kind of insight are you going to bring? I am sure Karosis had a great first post, seeing as it "grinds his gears" when people don't bring anything to the table. Actually, lets have a look at Karosis' first 4 posts. I am sure they will show us all how first posts are supposed to be according to the gospel of Karosis and his wonderful mafia play:

Karosis, on 13 March 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

Don't do that, the boat will sink! /nautical joke

Karosis, on 13 March 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

To do that I'd have to liquidate them first though...it would probably ruin them, and I don't think you'd get very clean.

Karosis, on 13 March 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

What is this!? This man is trying to poison our glorious leader with these offensively colored fare. Seize him!

Vote D'riss

EDIT: Cross post with my emperor. It appears I am not acting in accordance with his wishes .

Karosis, on 13 March 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

It looks like two people firing lasers out of their asses at a discombobulated garden gnome.

Quickly, we must steal his technology!

Remove Vote
Vote Serc

Wow, thats some amazing insight Karosis. I can see how you would criticize others (this is the sarcasm font). Hypocritical much?


Here is another example: (Underline is mine)

Karosis, on 14 March 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

*snip*

Pfft. As far as I'm aware, at no point has anyone been accused of being scummy for not defending themselves enough. If people are scared of being jumped on, then they have something to hide. If you are RI, then your job is to ferret out information, you are not supposed to have a self-preservation instinct. You start with no information, and you are not especially useful to the town's cause beyond making up the numbers unless you are making yourself busy on thread. So why aren't you even trying, Okaros?

*snip*

Ok, so he is saying that no one has been accused of being scummy for not defending themselves enough.

Then he comes up with this gem when I defended myself against his "case" on me:

Karosis, on 14 March 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Interesting...three whole posts worth of defence this early. Feels like you're trying to drown this one out before it gains any traction. I did not expect quite such a strong reaction...

wait...what? Again you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. According to you, if you defend to much, you are scummy, but if you don't defend enough, you have something to hide and are trying not to rock the boat, hence scummy. You can't have it both ways man.

In fact, this whole post here below stinks to me: (underlined, again, is mine)

Karosis, on 14 March 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

Okaros, on 14 March 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

Geez, it's no wonder people are turning up to check in and then leaving again. We're not even halfway through day one and already people are getting jumped on!

On top of that, between Karosis and Atrahal no one can win. If you defend yourself too much that is suspicious, but if you don't defend yourself at all you're also suspicious!

Day one cases are a crapshoot, and I don't blame Rashan for his resignation. It's pretty much impossible to against a day one case because anything you do or say will be micro-analysed. Sure, scum can slip up on day one as much as any other day, but it takes the context of the following days to find anything useful.

So with that, I am going to head off to work on my kickass Noh Dancing. I'll be back in time to vote. Try not to get your collective knickers twisted too much.

Pfft. As far as I'm aware, at no point has anyone been accused of being scummy for not defending themselves enough. If people are scared of being jumped on, then they have something to hide. If you are RI, then your job is to ferret out information, you are not supposed to have a self-preservation instinct. You start with no information, and you are not especially useful to the town's cause beyond making up the numbers unless you are making yourself busy on thread. So why aren't you even trying, Okaros?


Here is an example of the sort of player that I was saying we should be looking for back at the beginning of the day. This is such a blatant exhibition of the cancerous attitude that so often makes Day 1 useless. The more we allow players to get away with flaunting points of view like this, the more it will happen and you'll end up with Day 1s with no cases and no lynch. Might as well just start from Day 2, huh? The game has a fixed starting point and the onus is on you to play from that starting point, not from whenever you feel like the game is worth playing from. And if you're not doing that, the onus should be on the rest of us to force you to.

Much as I was starting to grow attached to the case on Kalse, I cannot allow this to stand. Yes, I'm switching vote again, make of that what you will, but I'm sick and tired of this sort of thinking and I feel I have to make a point. What would a scum player like more than to drift to Day 2 without anyone giving them any heat? And what is Okaros trying to do if not exactly that?

Remove Vote

Vote Okaros

In the first underline, he is once again telling people how to play the game. It seems to him there is only 1 way, his way. In the second underline, he gives us insight to his thought process. How can you be attached to a case that isn't a case. His case was an analyzation of RP. When I defended,he said I got defensive. (even though, he had previously stated that if you don't defend, you have something to hide). AND YET, he has no problem switching his vote to uphold his high standards of mafia play. In the third underline, he seems to take the moral high road as if other people's play style is an affront to him personally. He comes across as pompous, know-it-all, and is trying to tell people how to play the game. He seems to be trying to run the game and, talk out of both sides of his mouth, and says whatever is convenient at the time to make people see things his way. At worst he is a townie that will do us no favors and only look at things from his side, and if recruited, dominate the thread with his views and opinions, at best he is a recruiter, trying to run the show. Either way, he seems like a fine lynch to me.

vote Karosis

More thoughts on other players are forthcoming.

[Barghast]

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

So my suspects at the moment, as well as Rashan (duh), are Omtose, because of his questioning of one of Korvalain's posts which I found strange (and which Tellan also took umbrage over ). It struck me as someone trying too hard to think as a townie and pointing out something as signalling which would only make sense if the person doing it (Korv in this case) was in fact a townie himself. Yeah, I know this is a mega-stretch at the moment but I plead day 1.

My other suspects, according to a mathematical formula for finding scum which I have devised, are Kalse and D'riss. No case, no post analysis, no gut feeling, just pure and simple maths. Who can argue against the logic of mathematics eh?

Frankly, it is impossible, untill said maths are presented for public scrutiny.

[Rashan]

I hesitate to lynch the high posters, much easier to find discrepancies in their play post recruit or whatever in later game. But lynching a low poster doesn't accomplish much either, so I'm open for either.

I still think Tellan wants me dead for some reason. Which is why I want him gone. It's not a serious hunger, though, I'm sure I will switch. No one else seems interested in that line of thought.

[Serc]

I'm back - it's been extremely busy, had to even skip lunch.

[Kalse]

Regarding Atrahal, I am not seeing the case on him really, though his support of the above mentioned Karosis is disturbing. (see below). How you can exclude 2 people from the game this early is odd to me. You exclude Fener from your possible votes today, but he has brought nothing to the table. How can you have any read on him. Know more than some of us?

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Ok, we have about 5 hours and very little consensus.

Of the currently voted-on players, I personally have no compunction about switching my vote to any of them (if for no other reason than to demonstrate that I am not blinkering myself to other possibilities), except for Fener and Karosis. Fener because people aren't even voting on gut feeling, just past games and silliness. Karosis because, while I agree that his constant vote jumping makes his vote considerably weaker and harder to follow for others, it doesn't strike me as something scum, who I reckon would be more careful not to stand out like that, would do.

[Barghast]

Korvalain, on 14 March 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Sorrit, on 14 March 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

Mockra, on 14 March 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Hello all!

Checking in, only 5 pages, a pleasant surprise, wil go have a reread.

I have to admit that you have now significantly weakened my case. But your simple line is not yet enough to force me to change my perspective and vote.

I'm still doing my catch up but I had to stop and comment on this. Why am I the only one to make note of what Mockra actually said. He has a total of 3 posts yet his very first post claims that his is Checking in but is also doing a reread. How can you do both? If you are doing a reread you have been lurking and thus not commenting. If you are truly checking in then there is nothing to reread because you haven't read it yet.

Now I stand by my feeling that this game should be focused more on the low posters at least initially. Though Fener still falls into this category I'm going to have to switch to Mockra. This looks like scum slipped up and admitted they were lurking.

remove vote

vote mockra

I apologize profusely, but how ho do you derive a confession of lurking from this particular Mockra post?

[Kalse]

Rashan was pinging my scumdar early, but as of late has really upped his posting, and, to me, comes across more inno than scum. He has had supporters, which is odd, multiple people, in fact, that have somewhat backed him. This is odd and in a normal town/scum game would be cause for a vote, but in a faction game on day 1. I tend to believe that it's more that people are just voicing their opinions on atrahals original case. ( Which, like I said, seemed reasonable to me at the time and is no cause to think atrahal scummy...imo)