[Barghast]

Korvalain, on 14 March 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Quote

I literally have no time but my post was not about you it was about Serc. I mentioned you, Korv and Karosis but I wanted to hear from Serc, yet you took this to be about you. So he mentions executioners and you come out with killer pair who are unrecruitable? We don't even know if there are killers in this game yet, or how many there are. You surprise me.

If I had more time I'd go through the thread again but it took me a few hours to analyse it this morning and I won't have any more until later.

I know it was about Serc. You accused me at the same time. I refuted you about me, and told you I didn't feel Serc was anymore scummy than any of the other players.

Can you really not read? Barghast was wondering if there are killers in the game. I said there must be, it would be odd to have a game of Mafia with no deaths at night. Then I said that the killer would either be Silanah, or he'd have paired killers who are unrecruitable under his command. Now that I think about it, it would make more sense to have a single unrecruitable killer under his command, if we look at it from that angle. But I still stand by that it is likely that Silanah has a kill herself. In fact, why don't we just ask her.

Sil?

There's nothing wrong with this speculation. You see things where this is nothing, though I suppose that's normal in mafia.

How can Silanah have killing powers? Think of the balance of the game. If we have a player that can't be removed at all from the game whos vote counts and can kill at night? How can he lose? It doesn't make any sense. I agree that someone has killing powers but I don't think it can be Silanah. At least not infinite killing powers anyway.

His loss would quite easily come about from executing his loyal servants, while the traitors' numbers grow.

If you were to go back to the first proouncement of Path-Shaper, you would see that the victory condition for traitors is plurality. not the last ones standing.

[Barghast]

Given that others seem unvilling to follow the venerable traditions and remove the heinous Fener, I will turn my attention elsewhere.

Karosis has been extremely erratic in their play, showing an odd willingness to jump around and attack nearly everyone in the court. The amount of flimsy accusations he has thrown around may easily prove a fatal distraction.


remove vote

vote Karosis

[Atrahal]

Barghast, on 14 March 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

So my suspects at the moment, as well as Rashan (duh), are Omtose, because of his questioning of one of Korvalain's posts which I found strange (and which Tellan also took umbrage over ). It struck me as someone trying too hard to think as a townie and pointing out something as signalling which would only make sense if the person doing it (Korv in this case) was in fact a townie himself. Yeah, I know this is a mega-stretch at the moment but I plead day 1.

My other suspects, according to a mathematical formula for finding scum which I have devised, are Kalse and D'riss. No case, no post analysis, no gut feeling, just pure and simple maths. Who can argue against the logic of mathematics eh?

Frankly, it is impossible, untill said maths are presented for public scrutiny.

Ah, I am afraid that I cannot. Such a presentation would render the formula open to corruption, once the scum knew how to get out of being identified by said formula. Then I would have to devise a whole new one

Kalse, on 14 March 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Regarding Atrahal, I am not seeing the case on him really, though his support of the above mentioned Karosis is disturbing. (see below). How you can exclude 2 people from the game this early is odd to me. You exclude Fener from your possible votes today, but he has brought nothing to the table. How can you have any read on him. Know more than some of us?

I exclude Fener and Karosis for now, not forever. With about ten other options on the table, some have to be excluded if we're going to get anywhere, no? You're right that Fener has brought nothing, but the people voting for him (I think it's actually down to just one now) did not do so on the grounds of suspicious low posting either. They did it because it's Fener. As for Karosis, I gave what I consider a pretty sensible reason why I exclude voting for him at this present point.

Don't confuse that with me saying that I consider some of Karosis' play helpful, however. In fact, I would venture that your post refuting his case on you and turning his own play style back on him is the best post of the game so far. Congrats

[Kalse]

regarding Liosan and his RP, i am willing to let it slide on day 1. But RP is a great place to hide, as has been shown in recent games. after day 1, if anyone is still RPing, i will look at it as uncooperative to our ultimate goal, and will vote accordingly. RP in no way, shape, or form, helps out town. It's fine in the begining when the atmosphere is loose and fun, but when we get down to brass tacks... it's time to do work.

[Kalse]

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Don't confuse that with me saying that I consider some of Karosis' play helpful, however. In fact, I would venture that your post refuting his case on you and turning his own play style back on him is the best post of the game so far. Congrats

He made it easy, and the fact that he is so blatently playing all sides, and being so wrecklessly aggressive is what has me worried, hence the vote.

[Barghast]

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Barghast, on 14 March 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

So my suspects at the moment, as well as Rashan (duh), are Omtose, because of his questioning of one of Korvalain's posts which I found strange (and which Tellan also took umbrage over ). It struck me as someone trying too hard to think as a townie and pointing out something as signalling which would only make sense if the person doing it (Korv in this case) was in fact a townie himself. Yeah, I know this is a mega-stretch at the moment but I plead day 1.

My other suspects, according to a mathematical formula for finding scum which I have devised, are Kalse and D'riss. No case, no post analysis, no gut feeling, just pure and simple maths. Who can argue against the logic of mathematics eh?

Frankly, it is impossible, untill said maths are presented for public scrutiny.

Ah, I am afraid that I cannot. Such a presentation would render the formula open to corruption, once the scum knew how to get out of being identified by said formula. Then I would have to devise a whole new one

Kalse, on 14 March 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Regarding Atrahal, I am not seeing the case on him really, though his support of the above mentioned Karosis is disturbing. (see below). How you can exclude 2 people from the game this early is odd to me. You exclude Fener from your possible votes today, but he has brought nothing to the table. How can you have any read on him. Know more than some of us?

I exclude Fener and Karosis for now, not forever. With about ten other options on the table, some have to be excluded if we're going to get anywhere, no? You're right that Fener has brought nothing, but the people voting for him (I think it's actually down to just one now) did not do so on the grounds of suspicious low posting either. They did it because it's Fener. As for Karosis, I gave what I consider a pretty sensible reason why I exclude voting for him at this present point.

Don't confuse that with me saying that I consider some of Karosis' play helpful, however. In fact, I would venture that your post refuting his case on you and turning his own play style back on him is the best post of the game so far. Congrats

As a matter of fact, I have changed my stance on Fener since our rarther fruitless exchange yesterday night. However, since I have no wish to be unreasonable, I am willing to relegate him to a day 2 lynch, should he remain this obstinate and unhepful.

[Kalse]

off for a bit, i'll be back

[Atrahal]

Kalse, on 14 March 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Don't confuse that with me saying that I consider some of Karosis' play helpful, however. In fact, I would venture that your post refuting his case on you and turning his own play style back on him is the best post of the game so far. Congrats

He made it easy, and the fact that he is so blatently playing all sides, and being so wrecklessly aggressive is what has me worried, hence the vote.

It's that same blatancy and aggressiveness which makes me think he's an inno. I just think scum would be more careful not to make waves. That's just my opinion.

[Atrahal]

I was just thinking, as this game wears on, scum will have to really be careful about who they go after with lynches/kills. Unless they can re-recruit, they'll be in the weird position of trying not to kill townies, because they will want to get them on their team to strengthen their faction. As such, I think we have a better chance of not hitting townies in lynches as the game goes on - not just because there'll be fewer players, but also because scum will want to reduce the numbers of other scum.

[Olar Ethil]

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Kalse, on 14 March 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Don't confuse that with me saying that I consider some of Karosis' play helpful, however. In fact, I would venture that your post refuting his case on you and turning his own play style back on him is the best post of the game so far. Congrats

He made it easy, and the fact that he is so blatently playing all sides, and being so wrecklessly aggressive is what has me worried, hence the vote.

It's that same blatancy and aggressiveness which makes me think he's an inno. I just think scum would be more careful not to make waves. That's just my opinion.

I don't think because he shouts a lot and throws around his vote that makes him inno, though many players generally think that is the mark of a town player it has been shown in past games that certain players, even when scum or roled, have a hard time not playing in such a manner. Which is why I would not use that as a reason to discount Karosis.

A agree with a lot of the points your post makes Kalse and have had similar misgivings myself, also thinking there could be a possible link between Atrahal and Karosis, though Atrahal here has more explained his reasoning. If Tellan was fake symping Rashan as well it could make sense in the context of him diverting attention away from Karosis and his control of the thread/erratic behaviour.

[Atrahal]

Olar Ethil, on 14 March 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Kalse, on 14 March 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Don't confuse that with me saying that I consider some of Karosis' play helpful, however. In fact, I would venture that your post refuting his case on you and turning his own play style back on him is the best post of the game so far. Congrats

He made it easy, and the fact that he is so blatently playing all sides, and being so wrecklessly aggressive is what has me worried, hence the vote.

It's that same blatancy and aggressiveness which makes me think he's an inno. I just think scum would be more careful not to make waves. That's just my opinion.

I don't think because he shouts a lot and throws around his vote that makes him inno, though many players generally think that is the mark of a town player it has been shown in past games that certain players, even when scum or roled, have a hard time not playing in such a manner. Which is why I would not use that as a reason to discount Karosis.

A agree with a lot of the points your post makes Kalse and have had similar misgivings myself, also thinking there could be a possible link between Atrahal and Karosis, though Atrahal here has more explained his reasoning. If Tellan was fake symping Rashan as well it could make sense in the context of him diverting attention away from Karosis and his control of the thread/erratic behaviour.

As I said, that's just my opinion. And yes, scum can play any way they want, just like townies can and do play any way they want. But it would be silly to deny that there is a general trend in our games for those who get scum roles to restrain themselves somewhat. I'm not equating that with posting less than Karosis, but I mean the actual content of posts tends to be more responding to other people's arguments, cases, etc, rather than being the prime movers - especially early on in the game. I repeat, that's just a general trend, doesn't mean it's always the case, but, yeah.

[Emurlahn]

Kalse, on 14 March 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

regarding Liosan and his RP, i am willing to let it slide on day 1. But RP is a great place to hide, as has been shown in recent games. after day 1, if anyone is still RPing, i will look at it as uncooperative to our ultimate goal, and will vote accordingly. RP in no way, shape, or form, helps out town. It's fine in the begining when the atmosphere is loose and fun, but when we get down to brass tacks... it's time to do work.

It is not the RP that bothers me. It is that he summarises half the thread and then cast a weak vote, while only looking at the two players who had the most votes and ignores other discussions going on at that time. And the post where he votes is the only on where he gives a bit of an opinion.


Right now many people have put a vote on Karosis or stated that they are willing to vote that way. If it comes to that I don't mind to change my vote to him, as he is all over the place and some of his post seem to have a holier than thou attitude that I don't like.

[Omtose]

If there was some way to vote for all of you (but Sil) I would. What a spread! does everyone have a vote on them yet?

I have read and caught up (read the thread, then posted, what a novel concept)

My mention of Korvalain's post has gained some attention. But it seams to more sympish attention than any other.

So at this point I will follow my Epmorer's lead and vote for Korvalain. That post made the radar ping, not very strong but, I will go with it for day 1.

Vote Korvalain

Sorry being a low poster, but I won't have time to play until Friday. Then I have 10 days to devote to the game.

[Atrahal]

Omtose, on 14 March 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

If there was some way to vote for all of you (but Sil) I would. What a spread! does everyone have a vote on them yet?

I have read and caught up (read the thread, then posted, what a novel concept)

My mention of Korvalain's post has gained some attention. But it seams to more sympish attention than any other.

So at this point I will follow my Epmorer's lead and vote for Korvalain. That post made the radar ping, not very strong but, I will go with it for day 1.

Vote Korvalain

Sorry being a low poster, but I won't have time to play until Friday. Then I have 10 days to devote to the game.

Assuage my curiosity. Why did that post make your radar ping?


Edit: spelling

This post has been edited by Atrahal: 14 March 2012 - 09:06 PM

[Rashan]

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

Olar Ethil, on 14 March 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Kalse, on 14 March 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Don't confuse that with me saying that I consider some of Karosis' play helpful, however. In fact, I would venture that your post refuting his case on you and turning his own play style back on him is the best post of the game so far. Congrats

He made it easy, and the fact that he is so blatently playing all sides, and being so wrecklessly aggressive is what has me worried, hence the vote.

It's that same blatancy and aggressiveness which makes me think he's an inno. I just think scum would be more careful not to make waves. That's just my opinion.

I don't think because he shouts a lot and throws around his vote that makes him inno, though many players generally think that is the mark of a town player it has been shown in past games that certain players, even when scum or roled, have a hard time not playing in such a manner. Which is why I would not use that as a reason to discount Karosis.

A agree with a lot of the points your post makes Kalse and have had similar misgivings myself, also thinking there could be a possible link between Atrahal and Karosis, though Atrahal here has more explained his reasoning. If Tellan was fake symping Rashan as well it could make sense in the context of him diverting attention away from Karosis and his control of the thread/erratic behaviour.

As I said, that's just my opinion. And yes, scum can play any way they want, just like townies can and do play any way they want. But it would be silly to deny that there is a general trend in our games for those who get scum roles to restrain themselves somewhat. I'm not equating that with posting less than Karosis, but I mean the actual content of posts tends to be more responding to other people's arguments, cases, etc, rather than being the prime movers - especially early on in the game. I repeat, that's just a general trend, doesn't mean it's always the case, but, yeah.

Wrong. There has been a trend in our games that restrained players get scum roles. Time and time again we see that the majority of players simply play the way they feel comfortable. Certain players tend to be loud and control the thread no matter which game or role they are in. And it's no good to count someone out simply for acting erratically. If we continue to do that as we have in the past few games then scum will begin to act that way on purpose because they know the safety of it.

Not sure if that made sense, sorry if it didn't, just woke up from a nap.

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

I was just thinking, as this game wears on, scum will have to really be careful about who they go after with lynches/kills. Unless they can re-recruit, they'll be in the weird position of trying not to kill townies, because they will want to get them on their team to strengthen their faction. As such, I think we have a better chance of not hitting townies in lynches as the game goes on - not just because there'll be fewer players, but also because scum will want to reduce the numbers of other scum.

I keep reading this and I can't make sense of it.

Scum will have to be careful about who they go after with lynches/kills? They also do, assuming they have symps.

Unless they can re-recruit? You mean recruiting from eachother? Interesting, and I don't know if that would work or not.

Trying not to kill townies? I don't think so. Sure, they would like the other scum faction dead, but it weakens them as well, turning this into a basic cult vs town game if one manages to destroy the other(s)?.

In lynches? Do you assume this because scum often lead lynches? I don't see this being true at all. Lynches can be lead by anyone, and anyone can be wrong.

I don't know, confused and sleepy. Sorry for being such a negative nancy. Going for dinner.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1
5 auspicious hours and 7 minutes are left in the day.

21 players are left alive:
Atrahal, Barghast, D’riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Gamelon, Kalse, Karosis, Korvalain, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Omtose, Olar Ethil, Rashan, Ruse Serc, Silanah, Sorrit, Tellan, Tennes

2 votes Rashan: Atrahal, Liosan
4 votes Karosis: D'riss, Okaros, Kalse, Barghast
2 votes Mockra: Sorrit, Korvalain
1 vote Okaros: Karosis
1 vote Atrahal: Tellan
1 vote Liosan: Emurlahn
1 vote Serc: Tennes
1 vote Tellan: Rashan
1 vote Korvalain: Silanah, Omtose


Players not voting: Fener, Gamelon, Mockra, Olar Ethil, Ruse, Serc

[Gamelon]

Here, and surreptitiously reading up while "working".

[Atrahal]

Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Wrong. There has been a trend in our games that restrained players get scum roles. Time and time again we see that the majority of players simply play the way they feel comfortable. Certain players tend to be loud and control the thread no matter which game or role they are in. And it's no good to count someone out simply for acting erratically. If we continue to do that as we have in the past few games then scum will begin to act that way on purpose because they know the safety of it.

Not sure if that made sense, sorry if it didn't, just woke up from a nap.

Wrong? Just like that? Whilst I applaud your certainty, please do go over the last fifteen-twenty games and let me know if you can in fact back up your statement of certainty with some certain evidence. For instance, what about dkt and JA as symps in the vets game? People commented on how they weren't their normal boisterous selves. What about Khell?!

And please, can we stop making it sound like I've suddenly taken the decision to discount Karosis for ever and ever? We have like ten different people with votes on them at the moment, SOME have to be discounted by each and every one of us FOR NOW according to suspicion, gut, argument, etc.

And if you don't want to me to discount them for *simply* acting erratically, then please, could you also stop counting people in *simply* because they act erratically? <-- I hope this statement makes you see the silliness of your sentence. How much do you expect me to go on exactly at this juncture? Clearly, we have two different ways of going about this game, so you do yours and I'll do mine.

Rashan, on 14 March 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 14 March 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

I was just thinking, as this game wears on, scum will have to really be careful about who they go after with lynches/kills. Unless they can re-recruit, they'll be in the weird position of trying not to kill townies, because they will want to get them on their team to strengthen their faction. As such, I think we have a better chance of not hitting townies in lynches as the game goes on - not just because there'll be fewer players, but also because scum will want to reduce the numbers of other scum.

I keep reading this and I can't make sense of it.

Scum will have to be careful about who they go after with lynches/kills? They also do, assuming they have symps.

Unless they can re-recruit? You mean recruiting from eachother? Interesting, and I don't know if that would work or not.

Trying not to kill townies? I don't think so. Sure, they would like the other scum faction dead, but it weakens them as well, turning this into a basic cult vs town game if one manages to destroy the other(s)?.

In lynches? Do you assume this because scum often lead lynches? I don't see this being true at all. Lynches can be lead by anyone, and anyone can be wrong.

I don't know, confused and sleepy. Sorry for being such a negative nancy. Going for dinner.

To answer your questions in brief: Yes; yes, obviously no idea if it's possible or not, but if not, then they will have to be careful I reckon; I think scum often tend to see town as victims to be devoured, especially in a cult game such as this. I reckon as the game goes on and they succeed/fail in recruiting more, the more they will view other factions as the real danger; No, I'm not saying it because I think scum often lead lynches (especially not early in the game), that would directly contradict my earlier stated beliefs, would it not?

[Atrahal]

5 hours left. Looks like my statement made with 11 hours left still holds.

[Kalse]

Not much happening while I was gone. I'm happy with my vote for the moment. While I see alkends point, that scum are usually more reserved than Karosis has displayed this game, I don't find that to be an arument that should be whole relied upon. As Olar points out, generally the player dictates how a certain role will be played. Not vice versa. I am not so sold on my vote that I wouldn't be willing to switch in order to get a lynch. But at the present time, I am happy with my vote. i'll only be checking in every 2 hrs or so from here on out as i come available. I'm very busy tonight, but i'll do my best to check in and hopefully, but not likely be able to be on right before deadline.