[Cause]

Did musk give a Nazi salute at the inauguration? I honestly cant decide but whatever it was its awkward as hell. The fact that it could go either way is already an indictment on Musks recent character.

His denial was to just attack critics and meanwhile the White pride crowd who think everyone is communicating to them with secret signs (many are) will take is an endorsement. Throw in some pardons for trumps goons and the the first 24 hours of Trump: revenge of the stupid is off to a great start


Its wierd that he explains the gesture after he does it. The front one is wierd, the one to the rear looks text book.

This post has been edited by Cause: 21 January 2025 - 07:07 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Cause, on 21 January 2025 - 07:05 PM, said:

Did musk give a Nazi salute at the inauguration? I honestly cant decide but whatever it was its awkward as hell. The fact that it could go either way is already an indictment on Musks recent character.

His denial was to just attack critics and meanwhile the White pride crowd who think everyone is communicating to them with secret signs (many are) will take is an endorsement. Throw in some pardons for trumps goons and the the first 24 hours of Trump: revenge of the stupid is off to a great start

https://www.youtube....hannel=DiarioAS
Its wierd that he explains the gesture after he does it. The front one is wierd, the one to the rear looks text book.

When he said "my heart goes out to you" by "you" he meant "Hitler"... all "your" inner Hitlers.

My guess is he did it primarily so he could get in the news and rant about how the paranoid "Woke" media is out to get him / interpret every "innocent" gesture as something racist.

[QuickTidal]

Cause, on 21 January 2025 - 07:05 PM, said:

Did musk give a Nazi salute at the inauguration? I honestly cant decide but whatever it was its awkward as hell. The fact that it could go either way is already an indictment on Musks recent character.

Considering he was giving a full-throated approval to the far right wing German party in their politics a few weeks back....I would argue it's what we saw and it was intentional. I don't think anyone can make any argument that it wasn't that.

The best response I've seen about the people dithering on it not being that (and the one I will use on my sister and her family if Elon comes up again) is to say "Fine. Film yourself doing it, and post it own your LinkedIn page"....and WATCH them refuse.

[worry]

It's exactly what it looks like.

[Maark Abbott]

[quote name='Cause' timestamp='1737486304' post='1471709']
Did musk give a Nazi salute at the inauguration?

yes

[Tiste Simeon]

QuickTidal, on 21 January 2025 - 07:34 PM, said:

The best response I've seen about the people dithering on it not being that (and the one I will use on my sister and her family if Elon comes up again) is to say "Fine. Film yourself doing it, and post it own your LinkedIn page"....and WATCH them refuse.

And if they don't refuse I'm sure they'll get a high paying job at Twitter anyway.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

worry, on 21 January 2025 - 08:58 PM, said:

It's exactly what it looks like.

Agreed, there is no doubt in my mind that it was a blatant Nazi salute.

[QuickTidal]

Re; The Bishop and the President.

Astonishing how such a graceful and nuanced sermon—essentially a very short plea for mercy—aligned with the positions of the Episcopal church, the Catholic Church, and other Protestant denominations, rooted in the most obvious doctrinal points of the Gospels... stirs so much anger among partisans and receives such a disgusting response from Trump. He simply couldn't let it slide, could he?

She asked him to be merciful to those who are scared.

His response was ‘No, now apologise for asking’

If there is a hell, I hope he fucking ROASTS in it.

The man is truly evil, and how anyone can call themselves Christian and support him is baffling.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 22 January 2025 - 01:49 PM, said:

Re; The Bishop and the President.

Astonishing how such a graceful and nuanced sermon—essentially a very short plea for mercy—aligned with the positions of the Episcopal church, the Catholic Church, and other Protestant denominations, rooted in the most obvious doctrinal points of the Gospels... stirs so much anger among partisans and receives such a disgusting response from Trump. He simply couldn't let it slide, could he?

She asked him to be merciful to those who are scared.

His response was 'No, now apologise for asking'

If there is a hell, I hope he fucking ROASTS in it.

The man is truly evil, and how anyone can call themselves Christian and support him is baffling.

I give the Bishop credit, she had to know what kind of response she was going to receive and she went for it. I doubt this shifted anyone's position, but the line is just a little bit clearer a little bit sooner than evil orange would have liked.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 22 January 2025 - 01:49 PM, said:

The man is truly evil, and how anyone can call themselves Christian and support him is baffling.

Aren't they the ones who crucify people, so they can roast them over the fires of hell's gaping bubbling assholes (as if on a spit)?... seems in character. And as RFK Jr says (when denouncing Ozempic and other medications), character is what matters (i.e. wealth, (epi)genetics, fortune more generally, etc.)...

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 22 January 2025 - 02:59 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 22 January 2025 - 01:49 PM, said:

Re; The Bishop and the President.

Astonishing how such a graceful and nuanced sermon—essentially a very short plea for mercy—aligned with the positions of the Episcopal church, the Catholic Church, and other Protestant denominations, rooted in the most obvious doctrinal points of the Gospels... stirs so much anger among partisans and receives such a disgusting response from Trump. He simply couldn't let it slide, could he?

She asked him to be merciful to those who are scared.

His response was 'No, now apologise for asking'

If there is a hell, I hope he fucking ROASTS in it.

The man is truly evil, and how anyone can call themselves Christian and support him is baffling.

I give the Bishop credit, she had to know what kind of response she was going to receive and she went for it. I doubt this shifted anyone's position, but the line is just a little bit clearer a little bit sooner than evil orange would have liked.

As Mr Rogers said, look to the Helpers. She's a helper.

[HoosierDaddy]

Azath Vitr (D, on 22 January 2025 - 03:05 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 22 January 2025 - 01:49 PM, said:

The man is truly evil, and how anyone can call themselves Christian and support him is baffling.

Aren't they the ones who crucify people, so they can roast them over the fires of hell's gaping bubbling assholes (as if on a spit)?... seems in character. And as RFK Jr says (when denouncing Ozempic and other medications), character is what matters (i.e. wealth, (epi)genetics, fortune more generally, etc.)...

QuickTidal, on 22 January 2025 - 03:17 PM, said:

Abyss, on 22 January 2025 - 02:59 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 22 January 2025 - 01:49 PM, said:

Re; The Bishop and the President.

Astonishing how such a graceful and nuanced sermon—essentially a very short plea for mercy—aligned with the positions of the Episcopal church, the Catholic Church, and other Protestant denominations, rooted in the most obvious doctrinal points of the Gospels... stirs so much anger among partisans and receives such a disgusting response from Trump. He simply couldn't let it slide, could he?

She asked him to be merciful to those who are scared.

His response was 'No, now apologise for asking'

If there is a hell, I hope he fucking ROASTS in it.

The man is truly evil, and how anyone can call themselves Christian and support him is baffling.

I give the Bishop credit, she had to know what kind of response she was going to receive and she went for it. I doubt this shifted anyone's position, but the line is just a little bit clearer a little bit sooner than evil orange would have liked.

As Mr Rogers said, look to the Helpers. She's a helper.

Just an aside here and anecdotal stuff. But it is very strange to witness the disconnect. I think CHURCH has become so political, that the default is "He's got the R, he's on the righteous side. They've got the D, they want all babies murdered in the womb and are the most sinful of people." They are comfortable casting judgment and playing God from their pews because they've felt like it is the ONLY safe place they've had for a long time to be so judgmental and honest in their prejudice and biases.

Christ didn't come for the church-goers. He didn't come for the law abiders and pharisees. Christ came for the poor, the imprisoned, the prostitutes, beaten down and broken people, and the outcasts. He came for all those who would never have been deemed "good and lawful" which then included everyone who wasn't Jewish. We all need reminded of that.

Religion and politics are a toxic mix and we continue to be reminded why over and over again. Ends justify the means for many Christians, and yet, they should know best that the only means that are worthwhile are to love God and love their neighbor like they love themself and the only end that truly matters is what Christ accomplished on the Cross. Their works can never earn them a place in heaven.

[Lady Bliss]

I for one am against any mix of church and state. As an atheist I resent forced prayer time. I also don’t think that Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc should be forced through another religion’s prayer at a government function.

[QuickTidal]

I think Trump blanket pardoning all 1500 of the J6 terrorists is going to be a flashpoint moment in US history. These people will not only be lionized now, and show up on stage at his events, but they will encourage others to be this deeply into the cult, and I would put good money on them being his own little personal militia now. FFS he pardoned the ones who assaulted police officers...and some of these people got FURTHER radicalized while in jail...


And this isn't like 2016...this POS is ANGRY and wants vengeance now for the last 4 years and he's going to take it out on everyone within swinging distance.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 22 January 2025 - 04:49 PM, said:

I think Trump blanket pardoning all 1500 of the J6 terrorists is going to be a flashpoint moment in US history. These people will not only be lionized now, and show up on stage at his events, but they will encourage others to be this deeply into the cult, and I would put good money on them being his own little personal militia now. FFS he pardoned the ones who assaulted police officers...and some of these people got FURTHER radicalized while in jail...


And this isn't like 2016...this POS is ANGRY and wants vengeance now for the last 4 years and he's going to take it out on everyone within swinging distance.

Quote

Trump's sweeping pardons [...] were a last-minute, rip-the-bandage-off decision to try to move past the issue quickly, White House advisers familiar with the Trump team's discussions tell Axios. [...]

JD Vance — channeling what he believed to be Trump's thinking — said on "Fox News Sunday" that Jan. 6 convicts who assaulted police ought not get clemency: "If you committed violence that day, obviously you shouldn't be pardoned." [...]

Trump vacillated during an internal debate over targeted clemency vs. a blanket decision according to two insiders.

But as Trump's team wrestled with the issue, [...] "Trump just said: 'F -k it: Release 'em all,'" an adviser familiar with the discussions said.

https://www.axios.co...s-jan6-clemency

I'm imagining Trump getting really bored and irritated by all the policy discussion and being like, "F-ck it, bomb Greenland! Kerplow kerplow!"

[QuickTidal]

Also regarding Musk's Nazi Salute....I keep seeing people claim it was a "Roman Salute" and therefore not bad, just history.


As a history nerd who loves Roman history I'm going to enjoy the next 4 years every time someone tries to use that take as an excuse, to explain the history of the roman salute and how no Roman ever did that, and the actual thing came from a piece of art from 1784, Jacques-Louis David's painting The Oath of the Horatii...and was used by the Third Reich as a link to the Roman Empire like much of their other iconography was...and thus, still racist and nazi as hell and has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual Roman Empire.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 22 January 2025 - 05:15 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 22 January 2025 - 05:14 PM, said:

Also regarding Musk's Nazi Salute....I keep seeing people claim it was a "Roman Salute" and therefore not bad, just history.


As a history nerd who loves Roman history I'm going to enjoy the next 4 years every time someone tries to use that take as an excuse, to explain the history of the roman salute and how no Roman ever did that, and the actual thing came from a piece of art from 1784, Jacques-Louis David's painting The Oath of the Horatii...and was used by the Third Reich as a link to the Roman Empire like much of their other iconography was...and thus, still racist and nazi as hell and has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual Roman Empire.

Quote

[...] in Italian the Roman ("saluto romano") is just the common way to refer to the fascist/nazi salute [...] they (the fascists) [...] took it from a movie and claimed it was historical fact

https://bsky.app/pro...t/3lgaujkiy5s2j

Quote

a 2009 book by the classics professor Martin M Winkler that delved into the Roman salute found no evidence of [its use in ancient Rome]. "Not a single Roman work of art – sculpture, coinage, or painting– displays a salute of the kind that is found in Fascism, Nazism, and related ideologies," he wrote. "It is also unknown to Roman literature and is never mentioned by ancient historians of either republican or imperial Rome." [...]

Instead Winkler argued that what came to be known as the Roman salute was invented in the 19th century to be used in melodramas set in the Roman empire. The gesture eventually made its way into films set in the same period, leading the myth to endure

https://www.theguard...mp-inauguration

Hmm, that Guardian article might be misleading, because according to a different source,

Quote

in 2009, [...] Winkler published a bookcalled The Roman Salute: Cinema, History, Ideology [... in which] Winkler finds that David's painting served as the foundation point for what early 20th-century fascist governments called the "Roman salute"

https://albertis-win...he-nazi-salute/

But (to speak as the Romans do around here) who youze gonna believe---the Guardian or some rando blogger or somethin'? Well, luckily said blogger also mentioned---and linked to---the (presumably legal, since it's from Ohio State University, and not Trump University---though I guess if the president's university does it it's not illegal? unless he feels like it) free pdf of the book, in which there is in fact a whole chapter on the influence of David's painting. But from the introduction:

Quote

Scholars are agreed that The Oath of the Horatii represents a decisive turning point in the history of painting.2 it has rightly been called "the quintessential, neo-classic picture. . . . it united the generations and the nations."3 One scholar even considers David's picture to be a metaphorical equivalent of the American constitution of 1789 and of the French constitutions of the 1790s.

The position of their arms and hands is important. [-ish]

Spoiler

The brother closest to the viewer is holding his arm almost horizontally. The arm of the brother on his left is raised slightly higher, while the third brother, furthest back, holds his arm a little higher yet. in addition the first brother, the one closest to the viewer, is extending his right arm; the others are extending their left arms. The painter's reason for giving his figures these arm positions is to keep all three arms and hands clearly in view, just as the brothers' legs and helmeted heads are all visible. but the succession of arms raised progressively higher eventually leads to a gesture closely approximating the Fascist salute, if with the "wrong" arm on the part of the brothers further away from the viewer. as in the modern salute, the brothers' palms are facing downward, although the first two brothers' fingers do not touch. The position of the third brother's hand is such that the viewer does not see his fingers except for his tumb and cannot tell if they touch or not. Both ways are possible.

[...] Chapter 3 turns to two aspects of late-nineteenth-century American culture: the Pledge of allegiance to the Flag, a quintessential American custom that originally included a straight-arm salute, and popular stage plays dealing with imperial Rome. [...] Chapter 4 demonstrates the widespread occurrence of the raised-arm salute in silent epic cinema and makes evident how lasting an influence a particular convention may exert once it has become firmly established—once it has made irreality real and has begun to look right even when it is wrong.

https://kb.osu.edu/b....pdf?sequence=1

[QuickTidal]

Yep. All of that. It's been interesting to see so many pick up the the defence of it that it's Roman (as if that would excuse it even if it was)...while the truth of that lie is so easily at hand.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 22 January 2025 - 06:12 PM, said:

Yep. All of that. It's been interesting to see so many pick up the the defence of it that it's Roman (as if that would excuse it even if it was)...while the truth of that lie is so easily at hand.

It's the Holy Roman Nazi salute... a sacrament of the One True Church (of Trump)!

[QuickTidal]

Azath Vitr (D, on 22 January 2025 - 06:16 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 22 January 2025 - 06:12 PM, said:

Yep. All of that. It's been interesting to see so many pick up the the defence of it that it's Roman (as if that would excuse it even if it was)...while the truth of that lie is so easily at hand.

It's the Holy Roman Nazi salute... a sacrament of the One True Church (of Trump)!

100%.

Also our professor spoke about the movies using it and it being entirely made up way back in the film (screenwriting) classes I took in College...in the damned 90's....but somehow people still think it's a valid excuse/defence that actually hearkens to Imperial Rome?