[Cause]

I'm happy to label Trump a white supremacist. His actions reveal his prejudice almost daily.

However the American constitution does not allow for a concentration camp or anything like it and I am not yet ready to believe the armed forces of the united states will become camp guards who brutalize Mexican immigrants. The facts are bad enough to attack the policy and to attack trump. No need to exaggerate them.

[Silencer]

 Cause, on 17 May 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

I'm happy to label Trump a white supremacist. His actions reveal his prejudice almost daily.

However the American constitution does not allow for a concentration camp or anything like it and I am not yet ready to believe the armed forces of the united states will become camp guards who brutalize Mexican immigrants. The facts are bad enough to attack the policy and to attack trump. No need to exaggerate them.

Again, I direct your attention to Australia, who have signed international legislation outlawing what is happening/happened on Manus Island and Nauru, and who are also party to international legislation about taking in refugees but actively turn back refugee boats even if they might die as a result.

Also, I direct your attention to Guantanamo Bay. And like, ICE in general already does some pretty disgusting shit. It's just a case of finding and/or hiring the people who are willing to do it and putting them in one place. That's by no means a reflection on your average American soldier or government employee, that's just statistics and historical precedent.

[Obdigore]

 Cause, on 17 May 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

I'm happy to label Trump a white supremacist. His actions reveal his prejudice almost daily.

However the American constitution does not allow for a concentration camp or anything like it and I am not yet ready to believe the armed forces of the united states will become camp guards who brutalize Mexican immigrants. The facts are bad enough to attack the policy and to attack trump. No need to exaggerate them.

Why do you think that?

US Courts, stacked with racists/idiots, have already ruled a number of times that US laws don't apply to anyone in the country illegally, despite what the Supreme Court ruled for the last couple hundred years.

These 'constitutionalists' mean 'we are going to read the constitution how we want and ignore everything else'

[HoosierDaddy]

 Cause, on 17 May 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

I'm happy to label Trump a white supremacist. His actions reveal his prejudice almost daily.

However the American constitution does not allow for a concentration camp or anything like it and I am not yet ready to believe the armed forces of the united states will become camp guards who brutalize Mexican immigrants. The facts are bad enough to attack the policy and to attack trump. No need to exaggerate them.

Umm, we did exactly that with Japanese citizens in WW II.

https://en.wikipedia...anese_Americans

[worry]

I didn't say they were death camps or labor camps, I said they were concentration camps. Because that's what they are. For the record though, many American prisons are labor camps, and slavery/forced labor is very much Constitutional in those settings and circumstances. You can read the wording here.

So anyway, the U.S. government is going to warehouse immigrant, asylee, and refugee children, separately from their parents by potentially hundreds of miles, so as to deliberately punish and traumatize all of them as a deterrent to future immigrants, asylume seekers, and refugees. Call it an "internment camp" if you want, but I find the distinction rhetorical. Though it's definitely not a prison -- how could it be? These children haven't been charged with any crimes, let alone convicted of them.

[worry]

To be clear, while the sites of these camps will be on military bases, the Department of Homeland Security -- not the U.S. military -- will still be in charge of running them, if that allays your concerns there.

[Malankazooie]

Georgia's governor race.

First we have the guy who represents his shotgun as his penis and simulates getting an erection when a suitor for his daughter says he has a healthy appreciation for the 2nd amendment. Now this guy.


Desus & Mero break it down: https://www.youtube....h?v=U6mSVxJ6Scc

[amphibian]

 HoosierDaddy, on 17 May 2018 - 06:32 PM, said:

 Cause, on 17 May 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

I'm happy to label Trump a white supremacist. His actions reveal his prejudice almost daily.

However the American constitution does not allow for a concentration camp or anything like it and I am not yet ready to believe the armed forces of the united states will become camp guards who brutalize Mexican immigrants. The facts are bad enough to attack the policy and to attack trump. No need to exaggerate them.

Umm, we did exactly that with Japanese citizens in WW II.

https://en.wikipedia...anese_Americans

A few things about the concentration camps the Japanese Americans were in: many people died, many people lost their entire lives and all property, and it was motivated in large part by white farmers who were mad that the Japanese farmers were better.

There were labor and racist components to the internment of the Japanese Americans. There have been several dozen concentration camps in relation to labor disputes. I read a little bit on the Ludlow Massacre back in the 1910s.I believe there a mining camp in the late that was striking in Colorado was once machine gunned by armored vehicles and periodically sniped at by private police with sniper rifles. Many people died.

There is also the miserable, murderous, and genocidal treatment of the First Nations people for hundreds of years. Reservations are often kinda "former camps".

We also have current day open air prisons like Sheriff Joe Arpaio's in which prisoners die of heat stroke and live in pseudo concentration camp environments.

The abuses of Immigration and Customs Enforcement has also led to prisons that hold people for years with no trial or fair defense.

These things have always been around in America and they should not exist. They absolutely should not exist. There is little connection to true defense of the nation or its people.

[Aptorian]

Mr Miyagi's wife died during child birth in the Manzanar concentration camp for Japanese nationals. Ask yourself. Is that the America you want to live in?

[Macros]

I assume none of this is taught in American history in schools?

[Aptorian]

Actually they've made several famous documentaries about Mr. Myagi's later life. It's very inspiring.

[HoosierDaddy]

 Macros, on 18 May 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:

I assume none of this is taught in American history in schools?

In regular school? 14-18? Maybe, depending on district. Nothing is set is stone here, it is all school district by school district, and state by state.

One of my college majors was in history, so I know. I can't remember what I learned 25 years ago versus 18.

[Vengeance]

 Luv2B_Sassy, on 17 May 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

To be clear, while the sites of these camps will be on military bases, the Department of Homeland Security -- not the U.S. military -- will still be in charge of running them, if that allays your concerns there.

That does nothing for it. The US military nor Homeland (a division which should not exist) should have or be running detainment camps.

[worry]

I 100% agree, that was specifically a reply to Cause's concern: "I am not yet ready to believe the armed forces of the united states will become camp guards who brutalize Mexican immigrants." -- which is only to say that the same people who signed up to and currently are brutalizing immigrants will continue to do so.

[Macros]

Is it just me or is Mike pence getting more orange, the longer he stays with the carrot he is turning into one

[worry]

Who's got a soft spot for the welfare of human children?
https://twitter.com/...988054218739712



Much of this happened under Pres. Obama & involves the unaccompanied minors who were fleeing cartel violence in Central America, but the Trump admin has universalized the policy to all minors, accompanied or not.


This is the new normal: My link

Quote

As President Donald Trump's administration ramps up the prosecutions of parents crossing the border illegally and separates their children, Pastor's case offers a glimpse into how challenging it is to reunite them. Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen has defended the practice, saying children are taken from any criminals imprisoned for breaking the law. But once immigrant families, many asylum seekers from Central America, are separated at the border, they struggle to find each other among the three behemoth federal agencies in charge of their care. Advocates say few procedures are in place to ensure they reunify.

"In many cases they may never," said Michelle Brané, executive director of the migrant rights program at the Women's Refugee Commission, a national advocacy group. "We have seen children as young as 18 months deported without their parents and more commonly, parents deported without their children. Parents arrive in Central America with no idea of how to get their children back."

Previously most parents with children weren't prosecuted for crossing the border illegally, a misdemeanor for first offenders, but deported or freed together to pursue their civil immigration cases under a practice called "catch and release." The crime of illegal entry swamps federal dockets at the border and prosecutors typically prioritized serious offenders.

This post has been edited by Luv2B_Sassy: 25 May 2018 - 10:06 PM

[worry]

A pastor and immigration lawyer I follow has attempted to clear up all the various news items on immigrant children that have come out and kinda been conflated, and I'll quote his post here for anyone interested:

Quote

I know many of you are concerned about the headlines involving missing children. The reality is that there are multiple issues going on involving children, none of them good. First, unaccompanied minors (UAC) are supposed to be released to a safe guardian, usually a family member. The Office of Refugee Resettlement is given responsibility. But ORR basically does zero follow up or support. This is the source of the missing 1500. In addition, the govt did basically zero background check or oversight of those released. Now it is true that for the vast majority they are with actual family and are safe. The govt lost them because, likely, the family is scared and does not want the whereabouts known. But the truth is also that some of those kids ended up trafficked and sold into slavery.

A second issue has been the treatment of minors caught with their parents. This has been a complete mess starting with Obama. For reference look up the study released in 2014 by law students at the Univ of Chicago who completed a review of all cases since 2008 and found that CBP committed horrendous abuses of minors in their care. Obama created the “baby jails”. CBP/ICE claim that they corrected things. But immigration lawyers I know on the front lines say at best cosmetic changes were all that happened.

But now things are getting even worse. We now are dealing with an administration hellbent on trying to scare people from coming here by forcibly separating and jailing people as well as threatening to prosecute family members here who would be willing to take in the children. So parents are bring jailed and the kids put into detention somewhere else. Often it is a nightmare for the parent to find their child again. And there are now cases where the parent has been deported and the government either will not or cannot tell the parent where their child is. And, as mentioned, the administration is threatening to prosecute for smuggling the parents and even family already here who could care for the children.

So yes, lots of issues going on at same time and none of it good.

A few things I will add. The kids in that second column, who arrive with their parents and are forcibly separated from them, are by new policy (not law, but executive branch policy) going to be marked as "unaccompanied minors" while their parents are prosecuted, and fed into the same system that handled those earlier UACs (stands for unaccompanied alien children). Also, this is the so-called surge of UACs for whom the gov is planning to open those concentration camps (or warehouses if you prefer) on military bases.

When John Kelly said they'd be put in "foster care or whatever" this is what he was talking about. This is what Jeff Sessions meant by "zero tolerance" and what Pres. Trump meant by "We're closed!" These are the kids he says are "not innocent" Link

[Slow Ben]

I'm sick.

[Tsundoku]

 Slow Ben, on 28 May 2018 - 11:45 PM, said:

I'm sick.

You're not the sick one. An entire party/organisation of people are entirely missing empathy or basic humanity. I'd go so far as to call them all sociopaths.

[worry]

I wouldn't let Dems or President Obama off the hook -- that report of ICE's abuses of people in their custody focused on his years in office, and the buck stops with him -- but it's definitely true that one party from top to bottom is fundamentally, exponentially worse because white supremacy and white nationalism are among their core principles.