[Maark Abbott]

Alternative Goose, on 11 June 2018 - 06:48 AM, said:

Okay, Nico. Explain how rising production costs and businesses closing in America benefits the American people?

How does unravelling 70 years of diplomacy and destabilizing America's relationship with it's allies make Amercia great again?

And somehow, despite the berating and belittling, May still gives Trump da succ.

I mean really now... Strong and stable.

[Nicodimas]

Alternative Goose, on 11 June 2018 - 06:48 AM, said:

Okay, Nico. Explain how rising production costs and businesses closing in America benefits the American people?

How does unravelling 70 years of diplomacy and destabilizing America's relationship with it's allies make Amercia great again?

Economically speaking. A closed borders trading scenario hurts them way more then it hurts us.

Economic independence is something we need to strive for as it will bring back the middle class.

NAFTA is dead. It served its purpose and its time to move on.

If they want to come to the table the deals should be ...well equal.

The American Govertment sets the tone. You either follow..or don’t.

This isn’t a trade war..This is America getting its balls back.

[Gorefest]

To be honest, I am sort of leaning to Nico's side on this, though definitely not from a shared perspective. 'Taking America back' and 'showing balls' are hollow meaningless phrases that are borderline xenophobe and totally unconstructive.


However, at the same time I acknowledge that most of the current trade deals that are in place seem predominantly designed to provide a business-friendly trade environment for large corporations, not to benefit local workers in any part of this globalised world. So I think there is dome merit in questioning the current trade arrangements. The bull in a chinashop approach is of course not the most elegant one, but it may be a catalyst to get policy-makers rethink and redraft the current unbalanced and business-friendly agreements.

[Maark Abbott]

Gorefest, on 11 June 2018 - 07:36 AM, said:

To be honest, I am sort of leaning to Nico's side on this, though definitely not from a shared perspective. 'Taking America back' and 'showing balls' are hollow meaningless phrases that are borderline xenophobe and totally unconstructive.


However, at the same time I acknowledge that most of the current trade deals that are in place seem predominantly designed to provide a business-friendly trade environment for large corporations, not to benefit local workers in any part of this globalised world. So I think there is dome merit in questioning the current trade arrangements. The bull in a chinashop approach is of course not the most elegant one, but it may be a catalyst to get policy-makers rethink and redraft the current unbalanced and business-friendly agreements.

"Taking America back" is certainly an entertaining one given the history of the country as we know it today.

[Aptorian]

The problem I see with this thinking - That cutting ties creates new business opportunities, is that we have no idea where things land.

When there are big tariffs between America and the rest of the West, Europe doesnt have to bother offering America a better deal. China and India are the next big super powers. Their production output will leave the US behind if we start making better deals with them instead.

And where does that leave the US? Stagnating with their crumbling infrastructure, third world information network, coal powered, oil dependent obsolete thinking.

What happens when we stop buying American weapons and Europe builds it's own military up? What happens when coal and oil stops being the primary energy source? What happens if you break down the established capitalist system? I have no god damn idea but I doubt America wins anything.

Go ahead. Regress to the 1950s. Meanwhile the rest of the West marches towards 2050.

This post has been edited by Alternative Goose: 11 June 2018 - 10:01 AM

[Morgoth]

The idea that the US can go at it alone, and that diplomacy is for pansies, just shows what kind of morons sit at the top of the american system these days.

[Khellendros]

Nicodimas, on 11 June 2018 - 07:00 AM, said:

Alternative Goose, on 11 June 2018 - 06:48 AM, said:

Okay, Nico. Explain how rising production costs and businesses closing in America benefits the American people?

How does unravelling 70 years of diplomacy and destabilizing America's relationship with it's allies make Amercia great again?

Economically speaking. A closed borders trading scenario hurts them way more then it hurts us.

Economic independence is something we need to strive for as it will bring back the middle class.

NAFTA is dead. It served its purpose and its time to move on.

If they want to come to the table the deals should be ...well equal.

The American Govertment sets the tone. You either follow..or don’t.

This isn’t a trade war..This is America getting its balls back.

A number of statements here which are missing the 'how' part of the explanation: A leads to C but without the B explainer.

Also, deals should be equal but at the same time you have to follow the American tone? No discrepancy there...

[Nicodimas]

Alternative Goose, on 11 June 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

The problem I see with this thinking - That cutting ties creates new business opportunities, is that we have no idea where things land.

When there are big tariffs between America and the rest of the West, Europe doesnt have to bother offering America a better deal. China and India are the next big super powers. Their production output will leave the US behind if we start making better deals with them instead.

And where does that leave the US? Stagnating with their crumbling infrastructure, third world information network, coal powered, oil dependent obsolete thinking.

What happens when we stop buying American weapons and Europe builds it's own military up? What happens when coal and oil stops being the primary energy source? What happens if you break down the established capitalist system? I have no god damn idea but I doubt America wins anything.

Go ahead. Regress to the 1950s. Meanwhile the rest of the West marches towards 2050.

I was really thinking that it’s time to shift our foreign trade treaties more so in actual developing countries, rather than throw our money at already developed countries. It’s a post soviet world and most of these were to counter the red threat. With them back in the trading table we can let he Russian and Europe through trade secure a better relationship, then outright hostility that is pushed .

That’s what a leader does. I figure our economy will collapse right around the same time as we auto-mate the shit out of everything. This would be a great way to prepare and streamline future technologies that help build the developing world up.

More than likely America needs to build the good will...now.

[worry]

Setting aside whether that's a good or bad strategy, what makes you think a braindead business failure slumlord white supremacist narcissist has any interest in doing any of that? As opposed to just like continuing his amateur organized crime roleplay on a global scale.

[Tiste Simeon]

Luv2B_Sassy, on 11 June 2018 - 08:21 PM, said:

Setting aside whether that's a good or bad strategy, what makes you think a braindead business failure slumlord white supremacist narcissist has any interest in doing any of that? As opposed to just like continuing his amateur organized crime roleplay on a global scale.

Yeah Nico has some good points to consider but trump is DEFINITELY not the one to implement them.

[Morgoth]

Nicodimas, on 11 June 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

Alternative Goose, on 11 June 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

The problem I see with this thinking - That cutting ties creates new business opportunities, is that we have no idea where things land.

When there are big tariffs between America and the rest of the West, Europe doesnt have to bother offering America a better deal. China and India are the next big super powers. Their production output will leave the US behind if we start making better deals with them instead.

And where does that leave the US? Stagnating with their crumbling infrastructure, third world information network, coal powered, oil dependent obsolete thinking.

What happens when we stop buying American weapons and Europe builds it's own military up? What happens when coal and oil stops being the primary energy source? What happens if you break down the established capitalist system? I have no god damn idea but I doubt America wins anything.

Go ahead. Regress to the 1950s. Meanwhile the rest of the West marches towards 2050.

I was really thinking that it’s time to shift our foreign trade treaties more so in actual developing countries, rather than throw our money at already developed countries. It’s a post soviet world and most of these were to counter the red threat. With them back in the trading table we can let he Russian and Europe through trade secure a better relationship, then outright hostility that is pushed .

That’s what a leader does. I figure our economy will collapse right around the same time as we auto-mate the shit out of everything. This would be a great way to prepare and streamline future technologies that help build the developing world up.

More than likely America needs to build the good will...now.

Russia and Europe had a growing and positive trade relationship right until Putin decided to invade Ukraine. So, you know, it's not like the EU is going to just accept Russia annexing parts of other European countries.

And Trump has made it pretty clear he's not interested in free trade with developing countries (unlike, for instance the EU who have in place several such agreements). He was the one whom decided to pull out of the Trans-Pacific trade zone negotiations after all.

I don't know what sort of world you'd have to live in to believe Donald Trump is capable of building positive relationships with other countries, developed or otherwise, but it certainly isn't this one.

[Cause]

Nicodimas, on 11 June 2018 - 07:00 AM, said:

Economically speaking. A closed borders trading scenario hurts them way more then it hurts us.

Everything I know about America leads me to believe this is not true!

There is as much Dollar currency outside the us borders as in it. Its partly why the dollar is so strong, but its also a point of leverage.

The us imports goods and cheaply made products like crazy.

Trump ignores the non physical goods, America is a country that designs and buys iphones and the apps that go with it and accounting etc. They don't build them and never will.

[Andorion]

Nicodimas, on 11 June 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

Alternative Goose, on 11 June 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

The problem I see with this thinking - That cutting ties creates new business opportunities, is that we have no idea where things land.

When there are big tariffs between America and the rest of the West, Europe doesnt have to bother offering America a better deal. China and India are the next big super powers. Their production output will leave the US behind if we start making better deals with them instead.

And where does that leave the US? Stagnating with their crumbling infrastructure, third world information network, coal powered, oil dependent obsolete thinking.

What happens when we stop buying American weapons and Europe builds it's own military up? What happens when coal and oil stops being the primary energy source? What happens if you break down the established capitalist system? I have no god damn idea but I doubt America wins anything.

Go ahead. Regress to the 1950s. Meanwhile the rest of the West marches towards 2050.

I was really thinking that it's time to shift our foreign trade treaties more so in actual developing countries, rather than throw our money at already developed countries. It's a post soviet world and most of these were to counter the red threat. With them back in the trading table we can let he Russian and Europe through trade secure a better relationship, then outright hostility that is pushed .

That's what a leader does. I figure our economy will collapse right around the same time as we auto-mate the shit out of everything. This would be a great way to prepare and streamline future technologies that help build the developing world up.

More than likely America needs to build the good will...now.

Hi!
Developing country resident here!
Trump just said India imposes too high tariffs, so he wont trade with us properly anymore

[amphibian]

Tiste Simeon, on 11 June 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

Luv2B_Sassy, on 11 June 2018 - 08:21 PM, said:

Setting aside whether that's a good or bad strategy, what makes you think a braindead business failure slumlord white supremacist narcissist has any interest in doing any of that? As opposed to just like continuing his amateur organized crime roleplay on a global scale.

Yeah Nico has some good points to consider but trump is DEFINITELY not the one to implement them.

What good points does he have?

I'm being serious here. He's pushing for Trump to implement a trade war, fascist immigration restrictions, financial policies akin to oligarchy looting, and popping most environmental health laws off the books.

[Cause]

Trump just had a face to face meeting with Kim. They agreed to improve relations, talk more about denuclearization and trumo has promised to end joint us and s Korean training excercises? Seriously? The art of the deal here escapes me. He is either playing 9th dimensional chess or eating glue. No idea how we fix North Korea but I doubt this is it

South Korea wont be impressed, Japan wont be impressed. The trade war intensifies.

[QuickTidal]

Why the summit was a stupid idea, and Trump is a moron

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 12 June 2018 - 02:36 PM

[worry]

I don't know if it was a stupid idea or not, but I do know I don't trust Donald Trump and his staff's motives, and this thread explains (with better understanding than I have) how the immediate outcome is tepid and might become disastrous down the line.



Edit: including link because the Twitter embed looked wonky to me. https://twitter.com/...506581276659712
I do hope for the best, of course, and don't want to downplay all the good work President Moon has done to get here.

This post has been edited by Luv2B_Sassy: 13 June 2018 - 04:22 AM

[LinearPhilosopher]

Nicodimas, on 11 June 2018 - 07:00 AM, said:

Alternative Goose, on 11 June 2018 - 06:48 AM, said:

Okay, Nico. Explain how rising production costs and businesses closing in America benefits the American people?

How does unravelling 70 years of diplomacy and destabilizing America's relationship with it's allies make Amercia great again?

Economically speaking. A closed borders trading scenario hurts them way more then it hurts us.

Economic independence is something we need to strive for as it will bring back the middle class.

NAFTA is dead. It served its purpose and its time to move on.

If they want to come to the table the deals should be ...well equal.

The American Govertment sets the tone. You either follow..or don’t.

This isn’t a trade war..This is America getting its balls back.

Fun fact, both countries claim to be running trade surpluses.

Fun Fact, US claims to be runing trade deficit with other nations

Fun fact our entire automotive industry is predicated on the free flowing of parts between plants on both sides of the border.

This post has been edited by LinearPhilosopher: 13 June 2018 - 03:01 AM

[Nicodimas]

amphibian, on 12 June 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 11 June 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

Luv2B_Sassy, on 11 June 2018 - 08:21 PM, said:

Setting aside whether that's a good or bad strategy, what makes you think a braindead business failure slumlord white supremacist narcissist has any interest in doing any of that? As opposed to just like continuing his amateur organized crime roleplay on a global scale.

Yeah Nico has some good points to consider but trump is DEFINITELY not the one to implement them.

What good points does he have?

I'm being serious here. He's pushing for Trump to implement a trade war, fascist immigration restrictions, financial policies akin to oligarchy looting, and popping most environmental health laws off the books.

Amphibian. Just face it . It’s brilliant.

I like all the negativity it’s hilarious. Trump still got NK to the table.

You guys would have lost your shit had Obama done the same. Guess what Obama didn’t even do that.

/yikes

[Nicodimas]

Cause, on 12 June 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

Trump just had a face to face meeting with Kim. They agreed to improve relations, talk more about denuclearization and trumo has promised to end joint us and s Korean training excercises? Seriously? The art of the deal here escapes me. He is either playing 9th dimensional chess or eating glue. No idea how we fix North Korea but I doubt this is it

South Korea wont be impressed, Japan wont be impressed. The trade war intensifies.

@ cause: this was a 1st meeting. Trump the guy in power actually gave up shit. Let Nkorea feel important. This went exceedingly well. Sometimes it’s just a talk.

Wtf you guys expect Trump to punch him in the face ? Declare world peace.

Ok first date, you don’t say I want to F you. You just talk.

People are crazy.