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The USA politics thread - The other political idiocy - This is Democracy?

#13281 User is offline   Malankazooie 

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 11:36 PM

The political contingent in Colorado are livid. Colorado was a front runner for Space Command and rolled out the red carpet for the preliminary visits when locations were being proposed. The governor is calling for this decision by Trump to be looked into and will call for Biden to reverse it if there are blatant politically motivated reasons discovered. I mean, it's Trump....so, yeah, I'm sure all manner of corruption will be uncovered in how the decision was made. I doubt it changes anything though.

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#13282 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 01:31 AM

Huntsville has NASA history so it isn't like Qatar hosting the World Cup, lol.
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#13283 User is offline   TheRetiredBridgeburner 

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 07:44 AM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 13 January 2021 - 09:48 PM, said:

Impeached again! Have it.

I know theoretically it doesn't mean that much but it's another blow to the ego. And I know they're just trying to save their own skins at the last minute but good to see at least some Republicans not goose stepping in line like the rest.


I suppose it means something if he loses the Senate trial and is prevented from standing for office again. And I honestly think they had to do something - just hand-waiving away the attack on the Capitol without any consequence for him would have been mad.
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#13284 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 08:03 AM

The problem here is they will scapegoat him and all the other slime will ooze through the cracks
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#13285 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 01:35 PM

Oh definitely. That's why McConnell had changed his tune...
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#13286 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 02:26 PM

My thinking is that McConnell knows the 2/3rds vote will not happen, but a "never hold elected office" vote - which only requires 50 votes - can happen (giving GOP leaders control of the party back again) and this trial will be chewing up most of the time available for Biden + Democratic Congress to get their agenda through until summer 2021.

So I would strongly prefer a "trial in the morning, legislative agenda in the afternoon and evening" approach because then we're getting some things done legislatively while also holding Trump accountable.
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#13287 User is offline   Malankazooie 

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 03:32 PM

There's a lot of work to be done by Biden's administration. Obviously pandemic and getting the vaccine out. It will be greatly damaging to recovery if all attention is put into impeachment to start his term. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There is so much damage to reverse by Trump. They have to split the impeachment work up with work that needs to be tackled right away. We've been in a holding pattern, accepting Trump doing fuck all as it relates to any benefit to the country, looking towards that Jan. 20 date. Lets get Biden to work.
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#13288 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 04:32 PM

Given how quickly the reps chucked the first impeachment out without even bothering to hear witnesses this should be a real fast job no?

No?

What do you mean one rule for one and one for another??
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#13289 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 05:04 PM

At least some of the rioters who have been arrested... have been let out on bail. Despite the high risk they'll engage in similar activities over the next week.

Hopefully they're being constantly tracked, and police are ready to arrest them if they try to go back to DC....

'He has to surrender his passport, observe travel restrictions and adhere to a curfew of 9 p.m. to 6 a.m.'

The 'travel restrictions' are not elaborated---can he go to his state's capital?

https://www.baltimor...5r5i-story.html

[Edit:

Now they know they're going to prison (unless Trump pardons them before the inauguration), they might feel they have nothing to lose but their lives... though on second thought Neo-Nazi prison gangs might appeal to them.]

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 14 January 2021 - 05:07 PM

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#13290 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 06:32 PM

Case in point:
'
Macias and LaMotta drove up from Virginia, in a Hummer displaying the insignia of the QAnon conspiracy movement, with handguns, an AR-15-style rifle, 160 rounds of ammunition, and a samurai sword, to allegedly interfere in the vote counting process in Philadelphia'

'The judge declined to revoke their bail due to their attendance at last week's pro-Trump rally that led to a deadly attack on the Capitol building.'

Police didn't stop them from breaking the conditions of their release on bail to travel to DC and participate in the riot. Now the judge is letting them out again....

https://www.inquirer...s-20210114.html

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 14 January 2021 - 06:32 PM

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#13291 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 12:57 AM

'Texas Pastor Tells Followers to Get "Locked and Loaded" Ahead of Inauguration

[...] at KingdomLife Church [...] said he had received a message from “prophetic voices” that informed him Trump would remain president. “We have an executive order—not from Congress or D.C., but from the desk of the CEO of heaven, the boss of the planet,” Burden said. “He said from his desk in heaven, this is my will; Trump will be in office for eight years.” The pastor’s bio on the church website says he enjoys “staying active in civil government.”'

https://www.thedaily...f=home?ref=home
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#13292 User is offline   Malankazooie 

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 07:30 PM

huh, who knew serving in the government (federal, state, local) would pass logging as the most dangerous job in America.

Be aware this weekend, and the days and weeks ahead. If you see something, say something. Even you see someone who looks like they are serving in an official law enforcement capacity. These fuckers like to play chameleon / official personnel.

From what I understand, Sunday is Q Day or some such dumbshit, because Jan. 17 (1/17), and Q being the 17th letter of the alphabet. And the call has been sent out to go at all levels.

Stay safe and support one another. And again, report anything suspicious.
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#13293 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 12:14 AM

'Far right ready to "fight and kill in Trump's name": Experts

Unprecedented cooperation between far-right groups is a cause for concern as the US prepares for further political violence.

[...] Fringe groups, including white nationalists, militias and conspiracy theorists, have been unified by the desire to keep President Donald Trump in office and perceived censorship following Trump's suspension across social media platforms and the de-hosting of right-wing Twitter replacement Parler.

These groups are gathering online, planning armed demonstrations in all 50 state capitals. "They're sharing tactics and lists of targets, they say they're ready to fight and kill in Trump's name. And there's every reason to take them at their word," [...]

Amid increased scrutiny, far-right groups are increasingly moving to encrypted messaging apps to air their views and plan[...]

Hayden said he has seen "ratcheted up rhetoric" in the wake of the Capitol riot.

Neo-Nazi groups and members of the far-right are employing rhetoric similar to that of armed groups like al-Qaeda or ISIL (ISIS), "talking about how [they] should be comfortable leaving their bodies behind"[...]

[...] maps of state capital buildings with "little marks" on encrypted apps as a way to "broadcast" to the types of people who would attend armed, pro-Trump rallies, that "they are ready for them".'

https://www.aljazeer...kMr-Moq7USorhO4

More on 'QAnon Shaman':

'[...] used a spear to fight Capitol Police during the attack[...]

Inside the Capitol, Chansley used his bullhorn, the filing states, to shout invectives, including repeating that they were there to "take out several United States congressmen."

Prosecutors argue that Chansley must be detained due to his past criminal record and belief in harmful conspiracies like QAnon, as well as his belief that he is an alien, which may indicate "serious risks that he will flee and obstruct or attempt to obstruct justice."

The threat posed by Chansley is not eliminated by his detention, prosecutors argued, as other right-wing extremists who participated in the riot remain at large. Right-wing extremists and conspiracy theorists continue to pose a threat across the country.'

https://www.usatoday...als/4174807001/

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 16 January 2021 - 12:15 AM

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#13294 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 04:15 AM

'No, Trump can’t pardon himself or other insurrectionists. Impeachment would strip him of that power.

[...]

The most coherent constitutional understanding suggests that if the House votes to impeach Trump — even before the Senate begins its trial — he is then barred from issuing a pardon either for himself or those related to the impeachment charges.

[...] The Constitution makes clear that the president has the power to grant pardons, "except in cases of impeachment." Some scholars have long seen that clause as an anemic power, only preventing a president from pardoning someone from facing impeachment or undoing the penalties that result from a Senate conviction.

We and other legal scholars understand the clause to mean something different — that the president cannot pardon himself or others in matters directly associated with his own impeachment. Under this view, Trump could issue no pardon for himself or the insurrectionists for criminal charges related to the events of last week. Recently, other scholars, including Lawrence Friedman and Kim Wehle, have adopted this view, which we developed at length here https://www.theatlan...r-wrong/614083/ and here https://balkin.blogs...etation-of.html

The key point is this: Even though the pardon power for federal crimes is virtually unlimited, Congress may still vote to impeach and remove a president for abusing the pardon power. [...] If a president issues terrible pardons, impeachment and removal is the mechanism to hold that president accountable.

But how does this accountability mechanism function if a president issues a pardon designed to disable the impeachment process itself — either by a president pardoning himself or by pardoning others to prevent them from providing vital information to Congress for his own impeachment? As we and other legal scholars have argued, the exception explicitly mentioned in the Constitution — that the president has the power of pardon "except in cases of impeachment"— should be interpreted to preclude pardoning himself or others whose acts were directly connected to his own impeachment.

Congress's own interpretation of the pardon power may matter greatly, especially since the Supreme Court has never definitively decided the extent of the impeachment exception. Recent news reports indicate that members of Congress also understand impeachment to strip the president of his pardon power. [...]

This matters, too, for how courts ultimately decide the question. Courts have a history of deferring to Congress on matters they deem inherently political. That deference is especially prominent in matters of impeachment. The Constitution grants the House the "sole power" of impeachment. And the Court ruled in Nixon v United States, a case about a federal judge named Walter Nixon, that the Senate had the power to set its own rules in impeachment trials. That is, as long as the rules are in accordance with the Constitution's specific regulations, the courts would not micromanage the impeachment process. Given this precedent, the courts may see fit to give Congress leeway in this case.

[...] Even still, it is possible that Trump could try to pardon himself and his allies. Or he could even grant a blanket pardon to the insurrectionists who attacked the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6. In that case, it would be up to the courts to decide whether to honor those pardons or, consistent with Congress's will, to allow the criminal justice system to move forward in holding those responsible parties accountable for their crimes against the Constitution and the country.'

https://www.washingt...sbe86oh4Bbcc64I

IDK, doesn't seem like that argument would win over the originalist/textualist far right majority on the Supreme Court now....

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 16 January 2021 - 04:16 AM

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#13295 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 10:40 AM

Be interesting to see how they define "terrible pardons" as well...
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#13296 User is offline   Mezla PigDog 

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 08:26 PM

The Republicans turning on Trump now are the lowest of the low. Fair enough the few who have always criticised him but the ones who were either silent or supported him before and are now going against him in public. And the ones who have indicated they voted against impeachment but only because they are worried about their safety back in their home state. Talk about a lack of respect for the oath of public office. Shame shame shame. They make me puke even more than the white supremacists. They are everything that is wrong with the world.
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#13297 User is online   Aptorian 

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 08:30 PM

Even more disgraceful are the republicans attending the inauguration after supporting the political misinformation campaign and not wanting to call the winner of the election.
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#13298 User is offline   Gwynn ap Nudd 

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 08:48 PM

My favourites are the Republicans who objected to accepting states electoral results, and are now against impeaching Trump because it wouldn't help unify the country.
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#13299 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 09:59 PM

View PostGwynn ap Nudd, on 16 January 2021 - 08:48 PM, said:

My favourites are the Republicans who objected to accepting states electoral results, and are now against impeaching Trump because it wouldn't help unify the country.


'Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, a freshman lawmaker from Georgia who's best known for her support of the QAnon conspiracy theory, said on Twitter Wednesday that she would file articles of impeachment against Biden the day after he takes office.

"On behalf of the American people, we have to make sure our leaders are held accountable," Greene told Trumpist website Newsmax on Wednesday.

"We cannot have a president of the United States who's willing to abuse the power of the presidency."

Greene went on to argue that, while she doesn't condone the violence at the Capitol on Jan. 6, the fact that there was far-right violence is cause to remove Biden from the presidency—in order to prevent more of it.

"I'm a big believer in having people in office who are willing to do the job, and I can't imagine people in this country being so fearful of a future of a Biden presidency that they may be willing to commit violence like they did in the Capitol here in Washington, D.C.," Greene added. "We cannot have that, I do not condone that violence."'

https://www.vice.com...e-biden-already

'Capitol Police arrested a man at a security checkpoint in Washington on Friday after he flashed an "unauthorized" inauguration credential and a search of his truck found an unregistered handgun and more than 500 rounds of ammunition, the authorities said.

[...] A militarized "green zone" is being established downtown, tens of thousands of National Guard members are flooding the city, and a metal fence has gone up around the Capitol grounds in advance of the swearing-in of President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.

Federal agencies have tried to keep some people who breached the Capitol with weapons earlier this month from returning to the city, including by restricting their ability to board commercial planes'

https://www.nytimes....gj3yc2xhP59DzHM

Why aren't they being held in jail (or given ankle monitors and placed under house arrest) until after the inauguration?

'Neo-Nazi conspiracist "Baked Alaska" arrested after live-streaming from Capitol insurrection

Tim Gionet has been banned from several social media platforms after posting antisemitic and white nationalist memes

[...] A judge in Scottsdale, Arizona issued a warrant for Gionet's arrest on Thursday for violating conditions of his parole by leaving the state to join the riot in Washington DC.

Federal law enforcement arrested Gionet in Houston, Texas on Saturday'

[Took them long enough....]

'Gionet "conducted an approximately 27-minute long" stream from inside the Capitol, where Gionet and others can be heard chanting "patriots are in control", "whose house? our house" and "traitors, traitors, traitors".'

[Got the last part right....]

https://www.independ...l-b1788372.html


'Online far-right movements fracture in wake of Capitol riot

According to researchers who study the real-life effects of the QAnon movement, the false belief in a secret plan for Jan. 20 is irking militant pro-Trump and anti-government groups.

Online far-right movements are splintering in the wake of last week's Capitol riot, as some radical anti-government movements show signs of disillusionment with the relatively hands-off approach of some QAnon conspiracy theorists amid warnings of future violence.
QAnon adherents, who believe Trump is secretly saving the world from a cabal of child-eating Satanists, have identified Inauguration Day as a last stand, and falsely think he will force a 10-day, countrywide blackout that ends in the mass execution of his political enemies and a second Trump term.'

https://www.nbcnews....l-riot-n1254459

Still, if QAnon believe they're getting a signal from Trump or 'Q' to attack... at least some of them will, as happened during the Capitol riot (QAnon Shaman with his spear, the woman who was shot to death, 'and many more' (as the song goes)...). Maybe more perceived 'Morse code' (as I posted in Political Comedy, QAnon thinks Trump's hand gestures during his Oval Office speech after the riots signalled the letter 'Q' in Morse code...).

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 16 January 2021 - 09:59 PM

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#13300 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 10:16 PM

Updates on the one arrested trying to enter a security checkpoint:

'The truck Beeler was driving was decorated with firearm decals, including ones that said "Assault Life" and "If they come for your guns, Give 'Em your bullets first."

A gun with a high-capacity magazine inserted and ammunition were found in the vehicle[...]

[...] they also found "509 9MM rounds of hollow point & ball ammunition" and 21 12-guage shotgun shells.

[...] Beeler is charged with carrying a concealed weapon, possessing an unregistered firearm, unlawful possession of ammunition and possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device'

https://www.nbcwashi...police/2543951/

Hopefully they'll add more charges as the investigation continues... and won't let him out on bail until sometime after the inauguration.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 16 January 2021 - 10:17 PM

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