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The USA Politics Thread

#1241 User is offline   LinearPhilosopher 

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:20 PM

You can elect dead people in the states? Get ready for the zombie apocalypse then.

View PostObdigore, on 08 November 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

View PostBalrogLord, on 08 November 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

View PostObdigore, on 08 November 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

View PostHoosierDaddy, on 07 November 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

Specifically, I think these are some areas where we can look at to reduce the budget:

1. Defense. Commie socialist liberal that I am, I think we can probably reduce some of the outstanding projects and overall R and D some, without hurting fighting effectiveness.
2. Education. We can probably kill some overhead here, but without taking away from funding actual school programs and struggling schools.
3. Energy. Kill oil and clean coal subsidies.
4. Soc Sec. Means test. I'm for it to a certain percentage of cost. Raise age to 67 starting in 2017.

Edit: Changed Medicare to Soc. Sec. I'm for single payer.


My changes:

1) Tax Changes -> Let the bush era tax cuts expire. Tax capital gains at the same level as regular income. Donating to churches no longer counts as a tax break for donating to charitable organizations.
2) Defense Spending -> Close down 1/3rd of our overseas bases, especially the glut we have in Japan. Take all the Military R&D spending and shuffle it over to NASA. Task NASA with getting us into the asteroid belt by 2030 and doing it securely. The US is currently planning on replacing its 10 supercarriers over the next 15 years with new models. Why do we need 10? If we stop being TEAM AMERICA, we don't need more than five to secure our nations and be able to help our allies if needed.
3) Education -> We need to move away from low paying manufacturing jobs that we cannot compete with other countries with much lower standards of living. We need to increase Science and Maths educations, and move to a government funded Uni/College system for citizens of Average and higher intelligence.
4) Energy -> Invest in Nuclear Power while it is the cleanest and best way of deriving energy. Invest in research into Solar, Wind, and Geothermal. Hope NASA figures out Cold Fusion. I agree that the oil and coal subsidies need to end.
5) End the War on Drugs. Decriminalize everything, Legalize and Tax Weed, Acid, and Shrooms.
6) Legalize Prostitution. Prostitutes must be tested for diseases every 2 weeks and setup the DEA to make sure there is no sexual slavery and that the people doing the prostitution are willing. Make sure the prostitutes take home at least 65% of their fees.
7) Offer temperary military help to mexico to wipe out, with extreme prejudice, the drug cartels. The legalization of weed and the military assault on these organizations should be enough to end them. If we help make northern mexico livable, we should have less of an illegal immigration problem
8) Change Immigration. All first world countries thrive on immigration. A capitalist society needs to continue to grow, and as a country catches up with technological advancements and abandons religion the average children of a couple goes down to just under 2. Immigration is key. We need to make it easier for intelligent and motivated people to immigrate to this country. But we need to find a way to spread them out instead of having them live in large enclaves and be semi-absent from US society as a whole.
9) Offer Taiwan the chance to become an US protectorate. It is currently technically (according to the US military) under US military control after the end of WW2 and is not an independent country. This will also possibly bring things with China to a head, when the US has a clear military and logistics advantage.

That is all for now.

1) Churches are NPOs the same as any other, excluding them from donations makes no sense. What about NPOs with religious affiliation, you going to cut them too based on this logic? Its a taxable deduction because it's a way to encite people to give money. If it's Cap gain, raise the rate yes (50-75% range works for us just fine), but it shouldn't be 100% aside from the fact it severely hurts most investments models the gain/loss does not reflect any change in value due to inflation. Here's an idea, raise personal tax rates, create more higher income tax brackets and lower your corporate tax rate. That'll solve many of your revenue issues. Corporate tax rates are a formality more then anything else, since any income earned by a corp eventually filters out (employment income, business income, property income, cap gain etc). They give rise to issues of double taxation which are a pain to account for.
And they shouldn't be. Many churches aren't chairities. But yes, something like a Catholic Run Food Kitchen is a charity. Your local catholic church is not.

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3)and what about those who can't work in these high tech industries eh? Not everyone can be a mathematician, a scientist etc. There needs to be employment for people of all levels else they become a drag on the economy and hold everyone back. Manufacturing domestically accomplishes this goal. Yeah you don't get to take advantage of economic advantages but if a larger % of your people are employed it's an overall net gain. Unless of course you wanna go full socialism at which point by all means yes let's only employ a few and have everyone else live off that wealth.
What about them? I didn't say we would stop employing local people to build houses and roads, but manufacturing (that thing that built the US during and after WW2) cannot compete in a global market and still make a living wage

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5) end the war of drugs yes, decriminalizing everything? that's a step to far man. There are some substances you do not want people on period. Some substances should not be legally purchased.
Check out the difference between decriminalizing and legalizing.

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6) Legalising prostitution may actually help some of these poor women (or men) so i'd be down. Working conditions for prosititues in places like holland are sligthly better from what i hear.

7)that's one helluva can of worms you're thinking of opening. At the same time didn't you also sya you wanted lesser military expenditures. Bit of a contradiction there. I know you said short-term but let's be realistic wars rarely happen the way you plan them to be, usually end up lasting longer then anticipated.
Special Forces in Mexico isn't going to be a large strain on the budget at all. It would save money in the long run if Mexico has a stronger economy and is a stronger country, and it would help with immigration.

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9) yes, let's give imperialism a whirl again, We all know how well that ended.
You clearly didn't bother reading what I said. I mean I guess if that is how you want to play it you can, but w/e.


1)your local catholic church is still an NPO, regardless of whether or not you perceive it as a charity. No different then a soup kitchen, a historical society or boating club. As far as im concerned it's still open to treatment as a charity. Just out of curiosity is it tax deductible for individuals where you live?
3)then use manufacturing to compete locally. Setup tariffs if need be. Domestic manufacturing is a great source of employment. Construction tends to be periodic, not a consistent form of employment.
7)Somehow i don't think Mexico would be that easy to stabilize. Then there's the whole sovereignty issue as well as finding something to replace the power vacuum that isn't drug trafficking, sure offing all the local crime bosses will help but who is to say it won't creep up again once the special forces leave. This mexico issue isn't as clear cut as you seem to be making it.
9) i get the feel Taiwan like's it sovereignty just fine the way it is, besides do we really need to prod china further? Senkakku island dispute was bad enough already. What's the gain? What's the cost? From my perspective all this will result in is needless expenditures and piss china off, who happens to be a big trading partner and soon to be global super power.

This post has been edited by BalrogLord: 08 November 2012 - 02:33 PM

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#1242 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

View Postworrywort, on 08 November 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

It was actually then-Senator John "Let the Eagle Soar" Ashcroft who lost to a dead opponent, leaving him open for recruitment as Attorney General.

The reference behind "Let the Eagle Soar" -
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#1243 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:47 PM

Love this dude: http://nymag.com/dai...ibertarian.html
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#1244 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:42 PM

Love this lady:

They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#1245 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:41 AM

Love this guy for real:

They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#1246 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:51 AM

Maddow (aside from being on in 10m) will be on Colbert tonight.

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I知 not talking about Donald Trump. I知 talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#1247 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:48 AM

OK, now this is cool (even if it IS WoW):

---------------------------------------

http://www.news.com....v-1226513464251

World of Warcraft gamer Colleen Lachowicz takes her Orc character into Maine Senate

News Limited Network
November 09, 2012 10:10AM

Colleen Lachowicz, aka Santiaga - a top-level World of Warcraft Orc Assassination Rogue - will sit in the US Senate representing Maine. Source: Supplied

TIMES are changing. The United States has voted for an openly gay woman, a dead man - and an Orc Assassination Rogue.

Colleen Lachowicz appeared to lose any chance of winning a Maine Senate seat earlier this year when her competitors outed her as a dedicated player of the popular online multiplayer video game World of Warcraft.

"So I'm a(n) orc rogue girl. That means I stab things... a lot... Who would have thought that a peace-lovin', social worker and democrat would enjoy that?!", she posted in 2009.

But, in a country that appears eager for change, surprises happen.

Wisconsin Democrat Tammy Baldwin made history by becoming the first openly gay candidate to win a Senate seat. The campaign was a tough one, however, costing both sides more than $65 million. But her sexuality was not openly raised as an issue.

Texas took a different tack in electing Democrat Mario Gallegos two weeks after he died. He posthumously beat his Republican challenger after his friends and family continued his campaign. However, a re-election will now be called.

Maine elected an Orc.

Little did Lachowicz's Republican opponents know that outing her gaming habit would actually help her win.

Watch: Chuck Norris in WoW commercial

Chuck Norris didn't break a sweat filming the new World of Warcraft ad. Instead, he made the director cry and cooled himself with the tears.

Her online entertainment was mocked as a waste of time. She was accused of living in a fantasy world, with no understanding of the real one.

A website was even devoted to attacking as "disturbing" Lachowicz's in-game character's words and behaviour.

But her electorate didn't buy it.

And while her level 85 Orc character Santiaga is a "bad guy", Lachowicz managed to project a "good girl" image during the real-world campaign.

Her gaming community even rallied to help raise funds.

"It just really goes to show that I think those of us who do play games are eager for it not to be stereotyped anymore," Lachowicz said.

But let's hope some of her Orcish attitude doesn't spill over to her real-world politics.

"I can kill stuff without going to jail. There are some days when this is more necessary than others," she posted in 2009.
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#1248 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:56 AM

She was elected to Maine's Senate. Not the U.S. Senate.
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#1249 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:00 AM

THe WoW thing wasn't a surprise. She isn't even at max level, has no gear, and is the incumbent.

Also, shes in a very democratic state and was running against a Tea Partier (I believe).

I'm not sure why people thought she appeared to lose because she got 'outed' as a person who plays WoW. Playing games is much more 'mainstream' than it used to be and is losing a lot of its stigma about 'only for socialy inept nerds', although the GOP seems to still think it is a badge of shame.
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#1250 User is offline   LinearPhilosopher 

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:30 AM

why are people's hobbies an electoral issue? next thing you know if a candidate doesn't collect stamps he's un-american.
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#1251 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:11 PM

I love that Wang (Princeton PEC) claimed to have exactly predicted the popular vote before the votes were fully in. Electoral math is something different謡e knew Silver had called all the states correctly, and that wasn't going to change except maybe Florida which Wang called for Romney傭ut as the popular vote has settled down, it's gotten closer to Silver's prediction than Wang's.

Popular vote results at the moment:

http://bostinno.com/...30_256015_0__ss

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Barack Obama has 50% of the vote with 4,169,044 total votes. Mitt Romney has 49% of the vote, with 4,117,106 votes. "Others" currently holds 0.9% with 71,247 votes.


538 prediction:

50.8 Obama
48.3 Romney

Wang, Nov. 7 9:42 am:

http://election.prin...fter-the-storm/

Quote

The popular vote is Obama 51.1% to Romney 48.9%. Again, this exactly matches my prediction, which was state polls with a little Bayesian help from national polls.

Of course, we're still not done yet.

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I知 not talking about Donald Trump. I知 talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#1252 User is offline   McLovin 

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:14 PM

View PostSombra, on 09 November 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

World of Warcraft gamer Colleen Lachowicz takes her Orc character into Maine Senate


That's...AWESOME.
OK, I think I got it, but just in case, can you say the whole thing over again? I wasn't really listening.
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#1253 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 09:00 PM

http://www.forbes.co...e-of-the-night/
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#1254 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:01 AM

http://www.upi.com/b.../1751352473239/

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I知 not talking about Donald Trump. I知 talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#1255 User is offline   Defiance 

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:42 AM

Any thoughts on Petraeus stepping down?
uhm, that should be 'stuff.' My stiff is never nihilistic.
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#1256 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:52 AM

re: thoughts on Petraeus: No coherent ones yet. We don't know enough. The timing is weird because of the Benghazi thing, so that makes me wary, but the conspiracy theories are hard to force into a logical scenario, unless his wife is in on it, or something. It appears so far that the FBI discovered the affair while investigating his biographer to see if she had tried to access to his emails. As far as I can tell that's all we know about the details. I did see that episode of The Daily Show that everyone is playing now.

This post has been edited by Terez: 10 November 2012 - 03:52 AM

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I知 not talking about Donald Trump. I知 talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
0

#1257 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:49 PM

Heads up: If you go to Mitt Romney's facebook page and hit refresh like every ten seconds, you can see his number of "Likes" drop in real time. Not particularly important, but it is fun. And who knows, maybe it says something about his supporters.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#1258 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:11 AM

Amazing how, even after a few days, it's still steady (if slow).

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I知 not talking about Donald Trump. I知 talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
0

#1259 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:11 AM

It never stops surprising me how the most (self-described) patriotic people in the country a) consistently think it's so fragile and we're constantly on the brink of being destroyed, :thumbsup: don't like most of the people who live here, and c) want to split off whenever they don't get their way.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#1260 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:12 AM

Also it never stops surprising me when that "b" + ")" turns into the little shades guy.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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