[Tennes]

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 09:28 PM, said:

Are you just enjoying another flame war because you don't have to say anything useful, nor present any suspicions (as I have done, hell I've even voted for someone other than myself :GASP: )

And my self vote has produced a lot more discussion thus far.

[Tennes]

If you want suspicions, Silanah has been extremely middle of the road, and Telas has over reacted to Kessos case on him(pretty sure Kesso even said it was a joke almost immediately after he voted).

And there are a lot more that I suspect for having put forward so little, but with so many they can't all be roled.

[Silanah]

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 09:39 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 09:25 PM, said:

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 09:18 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

I leave for what, 5-6 hours, after presenting quite a few thoughts on game mechanics and potential scenarios and all I come back to is a self vote and a flattering, but still, copy cat rendition of my cases concerning the no vote people of Day 1? Really? Ok, I will have some more thoughts in a sec, but am I making my comments to long, too dense, too many big words?

If you didn't pad them out with stating the obvious about mechanics that'd be nice too.

Fun fact, there are six people who have 2 or fewer posts more than sorrit.

Fun fact, there are some people who spend more time arguing for the same point with a lot of posts without actually saying that much about their own suspicions and thoughts.

You say I'm arguing the same point, and not naming my suspicions, but there's a reason for that. The point I argue is that we're letting people away with contributing nothing, and if no one has posted anything of substance it's pretty hard to find any individual more suspicious than another. Town is shooting itself in the foot by laying low and thus letting the roled players do exactly the same, giving them a place to hide among a lot of people playing similarly.

You'll note I do actually put my thoughts on thread as well, for example speculating about Anthras' relations with others, but even that is pretty hard because no one was posting very much so there is much interaction to look at.

Am I making myself unreadable by putting up so little?

as you can see from my previous post i agree with what you are saying here, i'm not saying we should solely have a look at the low posters but by being a low poster they are more harmful to town, with this in mind i'm going to

vote thyrllan

i'm going to bed now and will be on most of tomorrow, he is the lowest poster out of everyone left alive, although it was hard not to pick korlat as i didn't even realise she was playing

[Tellan]

Serc, on 12 September 2011 - 08:01 PM, said:

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 07:51 PM, said:

This is exactly the fucking idiotic idea I've been arguing against.

Town should care who they lynch. Those of us on the train want to maintain our advantage. Those off the train want to gain the same faction as those on the previous train, because they have a significantly better chance of victory that way.

There is the potential for a lot of death at night, and the more lynches we miss the more chance that people won't get aligned.

But since apparently "fuck you, got mine" is the correct way to play.

Vote Tennes

Let's lynch me.

I'm town, and when I die I'll get my alignment. I'm not going to vote on a crap train because I don't want to balance out my alignment by hitting the wrong team. People seem determined to vote randomly anyway, in which case it's going to come down to luck anyhow, and I'd rather trust lucky NAs to keep the outfit at an advantage than randomly lynch one of them so me being lynched is a nice day where you don't hit them for me.

If the town is going to insist on playing shoddily and lynch randomly it's down to luck anyhow.

As well as which, hitting me nicely reduces the chances of a bunch of you managing get aligned.

Voting for yourself does nothing. It doesn't prove any point beyond the fact that you enjoy being dramatic.

I get the sense that you're bluffing. But not enough to cast a vote.

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 08:05 PM, said:

Voting for myself makes me the largest train.

You're not going to cast a vote?

But why not? After all, it's just been explained that we shouldn't care about hitting at random. You seem to care about who you vote, maybe you're roled.

Serc, on 12 September 2011 - 08:08 PM, said:

I'm not saying I disagree with a lot of what you're saying. That doesn't mean you need to throw a fit. It's probably safe to assume that there are plenty of people like me that agree with your points, if not your approach. Reel it in, buddy.

Thyrllan, on 12 September 2011 - 08:14 PM, said:

Maybe I understood the OP wrong but don't you need at least two lynches of the same fraction to get aligned, so if you are town you would die without winning conditions and thus not able to win, except of course you are already aligned.

And you seem determind that a win by the outfit would be the best thing, but I think it is all still open.

Also voting for yourself to limit the chances for others to get winning contions, seems childish to me, really. And I'm not sure that you are RI.

Telas, on 12 September 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

I agree to a point, day 1 almost always has flimsy votes but on day 2 with more information more thought should be put into cases and trying to find links. However if you are town your just being as unhelpful as wanting to vote just to be on a train and you can see that side as well, it is day 2 but the weekend and night went on for a long time, people want to be on a train maybe more thought should go into it and maybe more will as the thread develops but if we are so unbelievably cautious that we son't vote unless almost certain then people are going to be left behind with no alignment.

Voting for yourself does not actually remove all chances of you being roled, I agree with Serc here, yes you could just be a townie throwing a hissy fit so it is better at this point when there is still quite a bit of day left to observe your responses rather than throwing a vote your way but all in all, a bit too far eh?

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

In regards to the rest of your post, outfit currently has the advantage. An outfit lynch draws level, whereas an FBI one would gain a very strong position for the outfit. Why would town want to level it out when another FBI lynch would mean most people would have voted against the FBI at least once(all that is necessary as long as it isn't balanced out) and give them a big enough advantage to quite probably put most people on the winning team.

I also pointed out other bonuses of voting myself, but town are currently limiting its own (and with it, my) chances by acting entirely in their own individual interests rather than the collective interest of the town, and so I don't have a problem with returning the favour.

Kalse, on 12 September 2011 - 09:04 PM, said:

really?


I mean, SERIOUSLY?

wow

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 09:28 PM, said:

Are you just enjoying another flame war because you don't have to say anything useful, nor present any suspicions (as I have done, hell I've even voted for someone other than myself :GASP: )

And my self vote has produced a lot more discussion thus far.

You mean all of the above. That's all I could find.

[Tennes]

Now do the same thing for posts relevant to your vote

[Tellan]

Ok Tennes, time for the age old question: who would you like to vote for? Put your money where your mouth is. You talk ad nauseam about how town is stupid letting the low posters slide, how there is little content and lynch trains allow people to ride free and clear. You want more discussion so as to get a read on people, but you spend more time arguing your myopic points than actually pointing fingers and seeing if the shit sticks.

I currently think Kalse is a good lynch candidate. If you look here:

http://forum.malazan...878ce4e33907abe

at all his posts up to this point, you will see almost nothing but blank space. Perfect FM candidate for one. Even if the FM did not get him, he is lying too low for a townie, who at this point has two objectives: identify the roled players and lynch them.

[Tellan]

Just did asswipe.

[Tellan]

Kalse, on 12 September 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 09:24 PM, said:

As to the comparison of the smiley quotes, I actually hadn't thought yet of the FM idea when quoting those two. I was mainly pointing out blatant celebrations of successful kills of the roled players that were almost so townie they were sickening (and the first quote was actually the roled JA).

But now that you mention it, I find the thought even more intriguing... I mean, JA is dead, but the quotes of whoever was Anthras and who is now Kalse are very similar. Plus, as I said earlier, Kalse has got my attention with some suspicious activities before hand (coincidentally, on describing the FM mechanics for the game incorrectly).

That is actually a very intriguing direction. Kalse could be untouched by the FM, in which case I still would be suspicious of him for his own words on Day 1. However, if the subtle similarity between Kalse and Anthras' quotes is actually because of a jump, then lynching Kalse would still suit my goal to lynch roled players.

Vote Kalse

right, except for the fact that JA used his favourite smiley, whilst, i wasn't sure which smiley to use (hence the failed smiley preceding the one)


I mean, if this is the best you can come up with....

Now, as for this comment: may have been JA's favorite smiley, but frankly it's pretty damn popular all around. Plus, if JA was a victim of the FM, we would expect the to come from your alt not Anthras before the end of night. The fact that the person in the Anthras alt on day one used the smiley once does not immediately prove that JA was using that alt and thus was night killed and not FM jumped.

[Serc]

I'm back. Sigh. So much arguing, so little actual progress.

Could some of the low posters speak up? If not, I'd love to lynch them.

[Tellan]

I am afraid you have our lovely Tennes to thank for that.

[Tellan]

So 2 votes Tennes, 2 votes Kalse, and 2 votes Thyr.

Interesting. Reminds me of yesterday only with 1 more added to the widely scattered votes.

[Telas]

Silanah, on 12 September 2011 - 09:30 PM, said:

Korabas, on 12 September 2011 - 02:35 PM, said:

Ok, so I know this has flaws so don't immediately go biting my head off, but: I've made a list of those who didn't post in between the time that PS declared night before the weekend and the time PS declared there was still 3 hours left and some night actions had still not been received. Those people are:

Alkend
Thyrllan
Telas
Serc

I can't remember a single thing from most of them (apart from how much I hate the Thyrllan alt from the last game), aside from Telas, who came in for a bit of heat over his 'gun' comment on day 1.

Edit: Originally included Ampelas on the list, but duh, Ampelas is dead. And it may have been his action we were waiting on too.

this is one of many posts that has got my attention, correct me if it sounds foolish but this post looks to have been planned in advance, maybe i'm clutching at straws on this one but to highlight the players that did not post during the weekend to try and guess who the roled player is, is well, pointless. a player could use the tactic to not provide provisionals and wait through night without posting or sending i an action to look less suspect. he also points us all back to the "argument" about telas from day one but without adding anything to the discussion. for some reason i find the whole post odd, i have read it three times and it keeps making me feel uncomfortable. can anyone else see what i mean?


Yes I see what you mean, the weekend break is not the best example to use because it was frozen during night, we were waiting for night actions to be resolved and building cases is hard to do when you need the extra information provided by night being resolved, I didn't have much at all to say at night so I didn't bother, I think this will be the case for many people, since there was only a handful of posts and not all of them had much in the way of content.

Serc, on 12 September 2011 - 03:00 PM, said:

Korabas, on 12 September 2011 - 02:35 PM, said:

Ok, so I know this has flaws so don't immediately go biting my head off, but: I've made a list of those who didn't post in between the time that PS declared night before the weekend and the time PS declared there was still 3 hours left and some night actions had still not been received. Those people are:

Alkend
Thyrllan
Telas
Serc

I can't remember a single thing from most of them (apart from how much I hate the Thyrllan alt from the last game), aside from Telas, who came in for a bit of heat over his 'gun' comment on day 1.

Edit: Originally included Ampelas on the list, but duh, Ampelas is dead. And it may have been his action we were waiting on too.

I was asleep...

Anyway, I think the NKs couldn't have gone better. No town deaths. I don't have much of a read on Telas or Thyrllan, I'm going to re-read the thread in a minute.

Alkend, on 08 September 2011 - 06:51 PM, said:

Bam!! Another dragon. Let the wild rumpus start!

Cool setup with a lot of players. This should be a ton-o-fun.

This is all I have on Alkend. The "bam" thing seems strange, but I'm stretching.

Personally, I'm just glad day/night 1 ended that well. Only would have been better if the Outfit NK was an FBI.

this "quick" reply from serc strikes me as someone that has been around, looked at the thread but desided it would be better not to post anything until someone mentions his name. without looking too defensive he just subtely shifts attention away from himself towards alkend and states the obvious about night. since then he has made a couple of okay posts but would have done so if his name wasn't mentioned?

The 'bam' thing seems to really not be a thing at all and I can kind of vaguely remember serc as posting a few times although I do think he is deflecting a little by pointing out Alkend, the player at the top of the list, like he has glanced and just decided to throw the first quote that looked even slightly untypical at him, strange that he didn't do the same with me since I am on that list too and the more obvious target for the whole gun comment thing, makes it seem rushed.

Kalse, on 12 September 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 09:24 PM, said:

As to the comparison of the smiley quotes, I actually hadn't thought yet of the FM idea when quoting those two. I was mainly pointing out blatant celebrations of successful kills of the roled players that were almost so townie they were sickening (and the first quote was actually the roled JA).

But now that you mention it, I find the thought even more intriguing... I mean, JA is dead, but the quotes of whoever was Anthras and who is now Kalse are very similar. Plus, as I said earlier, Kalse has got my attention with some suspicious activities before hand (coincidentally, on describing the FM mechanics for the game incorrectly).

That is actually a very intriguing direction. Kalse could be untouched by the FM, in which case I still would be suspicious of him for his own words on Day 1. However, if the subtle similarity between Kalse and Anthras' quotes is actually because of a jump, then lynching Kalse would still suit my goal to lynch roled players.

Vote Kalse

right, except for the fact that JA used his favourite smiley, whilst, i wasn't sure which smiley to use (hence the failed smiley preceding the one)


I mean, if this is the best you can come up with....

Yeah this is a very weak 'case'. Smilies. It took me five minutes to even work out why this was being mentioned. You could look at the reaction to a roled death and draw some kind of suspicion from that but that really is only a step above smilies really.

Silanah, on 12 September 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

telas, tellan and tennes. korabas and korbas i think my head will explode in a minute, i keep mixing them up. i thought i had something on tennes? earlier on regarding the removal of the vote and catching him in a lie but i lost it, although as people would know i hate people self voting, it makes me want to vote them off just for doing that. i'm reading through the thread and would like to hear more from shadow, he started the lynch train on sorrit/fbi yesterday and maybe he can do the same thing today, unless he is smarting because he started a train on his own team. there are a few people out there that are deciding to have a low post count/stay of the radar but as we saw from last night it doesn't work. i'd like the lower posters to engage in more activity so that we can get a better feel for the players and their alignments. otherwise it turns out to be the ones that are making the posts to be the ones singled out and votes placed against them. i have a fair indication who i want to vote for today (thyrllan) but i want to hear a little more of what he has to say on the game and players so far.

I'm getting confused with the names as well, I can't keep them straight in my head at all. Self-voting just seems to futile and over the top, it is just adding to the situation that tennes seems to abhor so for that reason alone I was tempted to vote him. I think that you've hit on another problem here as well re low posters. It is hard to justify a lynch based solely on a low vote count and especially hard with the long weekend/night interruption falling when it did and breaking the momentum up somewhat but to target someone similarly because they have more of a presence is just as unhelpful.

I'm getting a ping here and there but nothing feels very substantial when looking into it more. Need to sleep soon, so I better go off and work out whether I will have time to do so before day ends or if I will have to try and find something more solid to vote on.

[Serc]

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 10:15 PM, said:

So 2 votes Tennes, 2 votes Kalse, and 2 votes Thyr.

Interesting. Reminds me of yesterday only with 1 more added to the widely scattered votes.

I don't actually have a huge problem with any of these votes. Tennes was... interesting. The self vote thing seems like an attempt to stop a lynch attempt against him.

Kalse is just fishy to me, and low posting.

Thyr is interesting, but doesn't seem to say all that much.

I don't know. No evidence is particularly solid.

[Tellan]

What makes you think Kalse is fishy? I actually just finished going through his posts, and he seems consistently cantankerous and his post style is pretty consistent, so I am retracting my assumption of FM jump. However, I still think he could very well be roled.

[Tellan]

And Telas, since you're here, care to elaborate on those "pings." You critiqued several theories as weak and unsubstantiated, but did not give us anything to go off of. Tearing apart cases is a lot easier than trying to reason through building one.

[Telas]

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 09:45 PM, said:

If you want suspicions, Silanah has been extremely middle of the road, and Telas has over reacted to Kessos case on him(pretty sure Kesso even said it was a joke almost immediately after he voted).

And there are a lot more that I suspect for having put forward so little, but with so many they can't all be roled.

Yeah Kesso was joking and he even voted during night so it wasn't that so much but you will see that after that people jumped on him for saying it wasn't very likely and comparing a vote for me to a vote for sorrit. I'd rather reply to these points than just let them slip away.

[Telas]

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 10:27 PM, said:

And Telas, since you're here, care to elaborate on those "pings." You critiqued several theories as weak and unsubstantiated, but did not give us anything to go off of. Tearing apart cases is a lot easier than trying to reason through building one.

The two main players I feel uneasy about are Thyrllian and Tennes, I think that while int his regard Tennes had a point, while we all want to make sure we have out winning conditions and have something to work towards as soon as we can there is also a more longterm game to think about as well and this kind of attitude does not help with that but then again I come into conflict with the whole a vote is better than no vote/no lynch argument.

With tennes I just feel that his reaction to thyrillian's vote was rather extreme and unhelpful, maybe slightly panicky, maybe a bold bluff on his part in the hopes of deflecting a possible train away from himself.

[Serc]

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 10:25 PM, said:

What makes you think Kalse is fishy? I actually just finished going through his posts, and he seems consistently cantankerous and his post style is pretty consistent, so I am retracting my assumption of FM jump. However, I still think he could very well be roled.

It's mostly the way he makes posts without saying anything. He rarely even repeats the arguments of others, to atleast look like he's doing something.

He also seems like he is playing dumb:

Kalse, on 12 September 2011 - 08:34 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 05:30 PM, said:

Anthras, on 09 September 2011 - 05:14 PM, said:

Hahaha, sometimes the simplest cases are true

Kalse, on 12 September 2011 - 05:19 PM, said:

JA's dead already? :lmao:

Also thought the similarity of the quotes was kind of interesting, but not putting much stock in this observation.... yet.

i'm sorry, are you suggesting I jumped into JA's alt?

What is the point of this post?

Kalse, on 12 September 2011 - 09:04 PM, said:

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 07:51 PM, said:

Thyrllan, on 12 September 2011 - 07:40 PM, said:

Tennes, on 12 September 2011 - 07:18 PM, said:

Like you say, I am on a train, and if nothing changes and I die I'll get my alignment anyhow.

If people want to vote for weak, near random reasons, they can suit themselves. How you think that's going to give you a better chance of hitting who you want to I don't know but whatever.

The only people who have a problem with hitting at random are roled players, because they can hit a teammate.
Townies, who where on the lynch last day have tendency who they want to hit, but it is still pretty open for them.
And for the townies who where not on the train it doesn't matter at all, the only thing is that they want ot hit roled players to get winning conditions.

So that's a lot of people for whom it doesn't really or only slightly matter who they hit.

But you seem to care, so maybe you are roled?

This is exactly the fucking idiotic idea I've been arguing against.

Town should care who they lynch. Those of us on the train want to maintain our advantage. Those off the train want to gain the same faction as those on the previous train, because they have a significantly better chance of victory that way.

There is the potential for a lot of death at night, and the more lynches we miss the more chance that people won't get aligned.

But since apparently "fuck you, got mine" is the correct way to play.

Vote Tennes

Let's lynch me.

I'm town, and when I die I'll get my alignment. I'm not going to vote on a crap train because I don't want to balance out my alignment by hitting the wrong team. People seem determined to vote randomly anyway, in which case it's going to come down to luck anyhow, and I'd rather trust lucky NAs to keep the outfit at an advantage than randomly lynch one of them so me being lynched is a nice day where you don't hit them for me.

If the town is going to insist on playing shoddily and lynch randomly it's down to luck anyhow.

As well as which, hitting me nicely reduces the chances of a bunch of you managing get aligned.

really?


I mean, SERIOUSLY?

wow

Something seems up. I could be wrong.

[Karosis]

I don't know what to do with Tennes. That's a pretty big gamble as a role player in a faction game when you know people don't give a fuck about who they vote for.

Really early for the whinge votes.

I blame the super long fucking weekend of death for making everybody depressed.

I'll vote when I come back from dinner.

[Serc]

Telas, on 12 September 2011 - 10:36 PM, said:

Tellan, on 12 September 2011 - 10:27 PM, said:

And Telas, since you're here, care to elaborate on those "pings." You critiqued several theories as weak and unsubstantiated, but did not give us anything to go off of. Tearing apart cases is a lot easier than trying to reason through building one.

The two main players I feel uneasy about are Thyrllian and Tennes, I think that while int his regard Tennes had a point, while we all want to make sure we have out winning conditions and have something to work towards as soon as we can there is also a more longterm game to think about as well and this kind of attitude does not help with that but then again I come into conflict with the whole a vote is better than no vote/no lynch argument.

With tennes I just feel that his reaction to thyrillian's vote was rather extreme and unhelpful, maybe slightly panicky, maybe a bold bluff on his part in the hopes of deflecting a possible train away from himself.

I actually agree with you about both of them.

However, it would be more in our interest to lynch someone who is contributing little. Even a roled player (especially one that doesn't know their team) can help us with cases.