[Tattersail_]

I did a laugh.

When Egwene and Perrin are seperated from the main group, because they fell into the Arinelle, they decide to take turns on Bela.

I laughed when Perrin says Bela's eyes widen when he took the reins for his turn

[Terez]

Tattersail, on 23 February 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

I did a laugh.

When Egwene and Perrin are seperated from the main group, because they fell into the Arinelle, they decide to take turns on Bela.

I laughed when Perrin says Bela's eyes widen when he took the reins for his turn

Even funnier is when Egwene tells Elyas it's his turn.

[Tattersail_]

Terez, on 23 February 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Tattersail, on 23 February 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

I did a laugh.

When Egwene and Perrin are seperated from the main group, because they fell into the Arinelle, they decide to take turns on Bela.

I laughed when Perrin says Bela's eyes widen when he took the reins for his turn

Even funnier is when Egwene tells Elyas it's his turn.

Not up to that bit yet, finished the part were they've just had dinner and Perrin first finds out about him talking to wolves then it flips to the boat with Rand and Mat. I'll read that bit on my lunch.

I'll use this thread for when I start reading the other books too. I do laugh on many occasion.

[Terez]

Keep an eye out for the foreshadowing of Justice—Artur Hawkwing's sword, which Rand carries as of TGS—being hidden in the abandoned stedding.

[Tattersail_]

Terez, on 23 February 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

Keep an eye out for the foreshadowing of Justice—Artur Hawkwing's sword, which Rand carries as of TGS—being hidden in the abandoned stedding.

I will do. In the meantime...

Quote

Lightsticks, Razorlace, a crystal lattice covered island, mountain hollowed into a bowl with silver spike in centre,

it's not word for word but do we hear of them again?

[Terez]

Lightsticks, yes. And there's something similar to the last one. I think razorlace is just concertina wire or something.

[Tattersail_]

Terez, on 23 February 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Lightsticks, yes. And there's something similar to the last one. I think razorlace is just concertina wire or something.

Do you know what the others refer to? Where they are based? How has Dolmon heard or seen them?

[Terez]

No, they're never mentioned again, so we're not sure where they are. Domon has a Lightstick, though. He talks about it in TGH.

[Tattersail_]

Terez do you know any good images of Loial?



I just tried to rough sketch a drawing on paper and his proportions seem weird, I started by drawing a tea cup on a table and then was going to draw him next to the table but because he is so big he didn't seem to fit.



double edit.


If you could post up his description here I could make it a challenge to our artists

This post has been edited by Tattersail: 28 February 2012 - 09:11 AM

[QuickTidal]

This is probs my fave pic of Loial...and this guy Seamus has done a whole whack of these character portraits if you are interested.

[Terez]

Yeah, that one is great. The one in the Big White Book is frankly horrible.

[Tattersail_]

QuickTidal, on 28 February 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

This is probs my fave pic of Loial...and this guy Seamus has done a whole whack of these character portraits if you are interested.

The thing is, those eyes do not look as big as tea cups. His hands are good. But look at the cup on the table compared to his puny eyes! I like the ears and hair though. Much rep.

[Tattersail_]

Plus it'd be great to see him standing next to Rand. I am reading their first meeting.



Terez, I have read the bit mentioning Justice over and over. What sword is it referring to?

[Terez]

Artur Hawkwing's sword Justice, which was dug up by some 'scholars' and given to Rand in TGS. It's mentioned in the prophecies.

[Tattersail_]

I am now on TDR, TGH went way too quick to comment. I'm up to the point where Rand has left Moiraine and co. Perrin is arguing with Moiraine and she quotes a lot of prophecy. I haven't got them to write them down but how many of them has he done?

This post has been edited by Tattersail: 13 March 2012 - 08:20 AM

[Terez]

Tattersail, on 13 March 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

I am now on TDR, TGH went way too quick to comment. I'm up to the point where Rand has left Moiraine and co. Perrin is arguing with Moiraine and she quotes a lot of prophecy. I haven't got them to write them down but how many of them has he done?

I guess you're talking about this?

TDR 6, The Hunt Begins said:

"Callandor will be but one fulfillment of The Karaethon Cycle, [IN PART] as his birth on the slopes of Dragonmount was the first. [YES] He has yet to break the nations, or shatter the world. [DEBATABLE 1] Even scholars who have studied the Prophecies for their entire lives do not know how to interpret them all. What does it mean that he 'shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf'? [DEBATABLE 2] What does it meant that he 'shall bind the nine moons to serve him'? [DEBATABLE 3] Yet these are given equal weight with Callandor in the Cycle. There are others. What 'wounds of madness and cutting of hope' has he healed? [DEBATABLE 4] What chains has he broken, and who put into chains? [DEBATABLE 5] And some are so obscure that he may already have fulfilled them, although I am not aware of it. But, no. Callandor is far from the end of it."

Perrin shrugged uneasily. He knew only bits and pieces of the Prophecies; he had liked hearing them even less since Rand had let Moiraine put that banner in his hands. No, it had been before that, even. Since a journey by Portal Stone had convinced him his life was bound to Rand's.

I say 'in part' for Callandor because there are other prophecies of various sorts referring to it. Some of them, debatably. (Justice confuses things.)

Debatables:

1. Some say he has already broken the nations. And while it's possible that Rand's own use of balefire has contributed to the breaking of the world as it stands right now (the Pattern falling apart), it's also possible that this breaking is yet to come. Certainly there are hints that Rand's death will have some pretty disastrous effects.*

2. Some say this has already happened, because he somewhat slew the Aiel with the 'sword of peace' by revealing the secrets known only to clan chiefs and Wise Ones. (That is, that the Aiel once followed the Way of the Leaf, and that the Tinkers are a racially assimilated remnant of the Second Covenant.) And while it's probably true to an extent, I believe there is a deeper fulfillment of the prophecy to come, having to do with the great revelations of TOM, such as they were.

3. Some say that Tuon was bound to serve Rand when she married Mat, in a way. But this is probably yet to come. An old theory which I have come to like is that the Oath Rod will end up being a sort of compromise for the damane situation. The Oath Rod is one of many such rods used in the Age of Legends to prevent criminal offenders from repeating their crimes. They were called 'binders'.

4. The 'wounds of madness' bit is generally believed to be the taint on saidin. The 'cutting of hope' seems to more accurately refer to the Healing of severing, i.e. stilling and gentling. Nynaeve and Flinn were the ones to figure it out, but perhaps Rand does this by proxy somehow. Some would argue that both refer to the taint.

5. Chains broken could refer to many things, including his effective emancipation of the serfs in Tear, to his 'breaking of bonds' thing which causes people to disavow all other loyalties to join him (see Uno and that lot). It could refer to the damane (yet to come). It's too vague to even guess properly. Who has he put in chains? In some ways, everyone, just via his ta'verenness. Beyond that, Asmodean, Semirhage, Moghedien by proxy maybe, random criminals via his great justice. Tairen High Lords. Perhaps more than anyone, Moiraine herself.

*See for example Carridin's secret instructions from Ishamael, or perhaps directly from the Dark One via Ishamael's link with him:

TGH Prologue, In the Shadow said:

Abruptly he felt his head grasped as though by a giant hand crushing his temples, felt himself being lifted, and the world blew apart in a thousand starbursts, each flash of light becoming an image that fled across his mind or spun and dwindled into the distance before he could more than barely grasp it. An impossible sky of striated clouds, red and yellow and black, racing as if driven by the mightiest wind the world had ever seen. A woman – a girl? – dressed in white receded into blackness and vanished as soon as she appeared. A raven stared him in the eye, knowing him, and was gone. An armored man in a brutal helm, shaped and painted and gilded like some monstrous, poisonous insect, raised a sword and plunged to one side, beyond his view. A horn, curled and golden, came hurtling out of the far distance. One piercing note it sounded as it flashed toward him, tugging his soul. At the last instant it flashed into a blinding, golden ring of light that passed through him, chilling him beyond death. A wolf leaped from the shadows of lost sight and ripped out his throat. He could not scream. The torrent went on, drowning him, burying him. He could barely remember who he was, or what he was. The skies rained fire, and the moon and stars fell; rivers ran in blood, and the dead walked; the earth split open and fountained molten rock...

That last could happen at any time, but seeing as how Rand is one with the land and all, his death seems a good catalyst.

[Tattersail_]

Terez, on 13 March 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

Tattersail, on 13 March 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

I am now on TDR, TGH went way too quick to comment. I'm up to the point where Rand has left Moiraine and co. Perrin is arguing with Moiraine and she quotes a lot of prophecy. I haven't got them to write them down but how many of them has he done?

I guess you're talking about this?

TDR 6, The Hunt Begins said:

"Callandor will be but one fulfillment of The Karaethon Cycle, [IN PART] as his birth on the slopes of Dragonmount was the first. [YES] He has yet to break the nations, or shatter the world. [DEBATABLE 1] Even scholars who have studied the Prophecies for their entire lives do not know how to interpret them all. What does it mean that he 'shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf'? [DEBATABLE 2] What does it meant that he 'shall bind the nine moons to serve him'? [DEBATABLE 3] Yet these are given equal weight with Callandor in the Cycle. There are others. What 'wounds of madness and cutting of hope' has he healed? [DEBATABLE 4] What chains has he broken, and who put into chains? [DEBATABLE 5] And some are so obscure that he may already have fulfilled them, although I am not aware of it. But, no. Callandor is far from the end of it."

Perrin shrugged uneasily. He knew only bits and pieces of the Prophecies; he had liked hearing them even less since Rand had let Moiraine put that banner in his hands. No, it had been before that, even. Since a journey by Portal Stone had convinced him his life was bound to Rand's.

I say 'in part' for Callandor because there are other prophecies of various sorts referring to it. Some of them, debatably. (Justice confuses things.)

Debatables:

1. Some say he has already broken the nations. And while it's possible that Rand's own use of balefire has contributed to the breaking of the world as it stands right now (the Pattern falling apart), it's also possible that this breaking is yet to come. Certainly there are hints that Rand's death will have some pretty disastrous effects.*

2. Some say this has already happened, because he somewhat slew the Aiel with the 'sword of peace' by revealing the secrets known only to clan chiefs and Wise Ones. (That is, that the Aiel once followed the Way of the Leaf, and that the Tinkers are a racially assimilated remnant of the Second Covenant.) And while it's probably true to an extent, I believe there is a deeper fulfillment of the prophecy to come, having to do with the great revelations of TOM, such as they were.

3. Some say that Tuon was bound to serve Rand when she married Mat, in a way. But this is probably yet to come. An old theory which I have come to like is that the Oath Rod will end up being a sort of compromise for the damane situation. The Oath Rod is one of many such rods used in the Age of Legends to prevent criminal offenders from repeating their crimes. They were called 'binders'.

4. The 'wounds of madness' bit is generally believed to be the taint on saidin. The 'cutting of hope' seems to more accurately refer to the Healing of severing, i.e. stilling and gentling. Nynaeve and Flinn were the ones to figure it out, but perhaps Rand does this by proxy somehow. Some would argue that both refer to the taint.

5. Chains broken could refer to many things, including his effective emancipation of the serfs in Tear, to his 'breaking of bonds' thing which causes people to disavow all other loyalties to join him (see Uno and that lot). It could refer to the damane (yet to come). It's too vague to even guess properly. Who has he put in chains? In some ways, everyone, just via his ta'verenness. Beyond that, Asmodean, Semirhage, Moghedien by proxy maybe, random criminals via his great justice. Tairen High Lords. Perhaps more than anyone, Moiraine herself.

*See for example Carridin's secret instructions from Ishamael, or perhaps directly from the Dark One via Ishamael's link with him:

TGH Prologue, In the Shadow said:

Abruptly he felt his head grasped as though by a giant hand crushing his temples, felt himself being lifted, and the world blew apart in a thousand starbursts, each flash of light becoming an image that fled across his mind or spun and dwindled into the distance before he could more than barely grasp it. An impossible sky of striated clouds, red and yellow and black, racing as if driven by the mightiest wind the world had ever seen. A woman – a girl? – dressed in white receded into blackness and vanished as soon as she appeared. A raven stared him in the eye, knowing him, and was gone. An armored man in a brutal helm, shaped and painted and gilded like some monstrous, poisonous insect, raised a sword and plunged to one side, beyond his view. A horn, curled and golden, came hurtling out of the far distance. One piercing note it sounded as it flashed toward him, tugging his soul. At the last instant it flashed into a blinding, golden ring of light that passed through him, chilling him beyond death. A wolf leaped from the shadows of lost sight and ripped out his throat. He could not scream. The torrent went on, drowning him, burying him. He could barely remember who he was, or what he was. The skies rained fire, and the moon and stars fell; rivers ran in blood, and the dead walked; the earth split open and fountained molten rock...

That last could happen at any time, but seeing as how Rand is one with the land and all, his death seems a good catalyst.

You see I have read, re read and then re re read the series many times. I am up to date with what has happened but it is good to post a question and have you answer it. I know some things will be debateable and I was nodding when you said about the aiel being broken by the leaf. I don't have much time to reply but thank you very much!! I hope I don't put you out

[Tattersail_]

Quote

JONATHAN B
This is apparently all of the information that is available from RJ himself about the actual method of Asmodean's murder. In Brandon's vision of the story, he imagines Graendal killed Asmodean (did the deed herself) with balefire, but apparently this is not in the notes. So its possible that it could have been done by another kind of weave and we are free to speculate on that.

I then asked about the RJ quote where he said that the place and the method of Asmodean's killer both mean that he couldn't come back.


BRANDON SANDERSON
Brandon said this was also a RAFO as he couldn't tell us why the place was important at this point without giving something away. He seemed to know something about this reason (there is probably information about why someone killed in the place Asmodean was couldn't be brought back by the Dark One). I asked if whether "where" referred to the city of Caemlyn or something else and this was also a RAFO.

He also said that RJ's answer to WSB "The Dark One couldn't bring back Asmodean because of the combination of two factors: HOW HE DIED and WHERE HE DIED. Not one or the other, both factors." might be interpreted as both factors (each alone) would have prevented the DO from bringing Asmodean back (and not just one or just the other) OR both factors (each alone) were not sufficient to prevent the Dark One from bringing Asmodean back and the combination of both was required. It seemed to me like his vision of it was more the first answer than the second (both factors each alone would have prevented it).


FOOTNOTE—TEREZ
RJ very specifically said that it was not one or the other factor, but both. Each alone would mean 'one or the other'; RJ makes it clear that one or the other was not enough to prevent transmigration. The most logical explanation seems to be that it was a small amount of balefire combined with distance from Shayol Ghul, or whatever the distance restriction was.

What if he was killed in the world of dreams and not in the real world. I know Hopper said that when a wolf dies in the world of dreams it ceases to exist. If Asmodean was pulled into the world of dreams and then killed then this could be a reason Shai Tan cannot resurrect him.

[Terez]

Well, there's no indication that a living person will die a permanent death simply because they die in Tel'aran'rhiod. Only someone who is already dead, such as a wolf or a dead hero of the horn, will die permanently. At least, that is the theory. It's presumed that all of the wolves Perrin meets in Tel'aran'rhiod are already dead, since none of them are confirmed alive, including Boundless/Noam. And Hopper said he thought the same would apply to Perrin, but he didn't seem to know for sure, so the running theory goes that it only applies to people already dead (which fits with some mythological inspirations, I forget which...but you see the same thing in many other stories, e.g. DBZ where a person with a halo who gets killed again is permanently dead).

[Black Winged Lord]

Just re the earlier mention of the mountain hollowed into a bowl etc, isn't there a similar description for where the meeting of the borderland monarchs meet and set out to find rand? I know they obviously didn't die for going near the pillar but pretty sure one of them had a bad feeling while standing there.

Could be wrong and don't have the books with me.