acesn8s, on 16 March 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:
Terez, on 15 March 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:
acesn8s, on 15 March 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:
One thing stuck out at me while I was reading the Excalibur parallel section. I think some emphasis should be put on the fact that the sword given to Rand was found under water, which could be a Lady of the Lake parallel.
Okay, I will emphasize that for you. There are several lady-o-the-lake parallels, and since Nynaeve doesn't have anything to do with this one, I suspect another, more important one is coming. More likely to do with
Callandor.
Would love to see something like that. Although, I thought the sword in the stone was different from Excalibur.
Is it? I pay so little attention to the actual legends because I find them hard to read, etc. I depend on a lot of summaries to put together the details. I don't care about swords so much as I care about the circumstances surrounding Rand's death, which is going to be a combination of a lot of things.
acesn8s, on 16 March 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:
Still think Gawyn is going to attack Rand?
Yeah. The motive will probably be different (which is not to say that a certain backsliding of sorts isn't possible), but it's still pretty much got to happen, or a lot of the intricacy of the foreshadowing falls apart. RJ rarely gets into purple territory with his prose, but he does often get sappy with the romance, and as such it was a good place to hide important foreshadowing. Take this passage, for instance:
LOC 25, Like Lightning and Rain said:
Gawyn startled her by drawing a ragged breath. "I will give over everything, betray everything, for you. Come away with me, Egwene. We will both leave it all behind. I have a small estate south of Whitebridge, with a vineyard and a village, so far into the country that the sun rises two days late. The world will hardly touch us there. We can be married on the way. I don't know how much time we will have – al'Thor; Tarmon Gai'don – I do not know; but we will have it together."
She stared up at him in amazement. Then she realized she had voiced that last thought aloud, What were those Aes Sedai up to?, and a key word – betray – slid into place. He thought she wanted him to spy on them. And he would. Desperately seeking a way not to, he still would, if she asked. Anything, he had promised, and anything he meant, whatever the cost to him. She made a promise to herself; to him really, but it was not the sort of promise she could speak aloud. If he let slip something she could use, she would – she had to – but she would not dig, not for the smallest scrap. Whatever the cost. Sarene Nemdahl would never understand, but it was the only way she could match what he had laid at her feet.
"I cannot," she said softly. "You can never know how much I want to, but I cannot." She laughed abruptly, feeling tears in her eyes. "And you. Betray? Gawyn Trakand, that word fits you as darkness fits the sun." Unspoken promises were all very well, but she could not leave it at that. She would use what he gave her, use it against what he believed. There had to be an offering. "I sleep in the tents, but every morning I walk in the city. I come through the Dragonwall Gate, not long after sunrise."
Consider a few things.
1. Gawain is sometimes associated with the sun to the point that his power rises and sets along with it. Theoretically he would be most powerful at noon.
2. Noon is when the Dark One's powers are theoretically weakest, and noon would be a good time for Rand to die. The Borderlanders ritually guard against 'the shadow at noon'.
3. There is foreshadowing indicating that Rand will be dead for three days. There is also a prophecy saying 'twice dawns the day when his blood is shed/once for mourning, once for birth'. I have a theory that this will happen because Rand is one with the land, so if he's balefired, theoretically the 'actions' of the earth should reverse to a certain point (probably no more than a few hours), including its rotation. I also theorize that his death will (as I said above) have disastrous effects, including the eruption of Dragonmount and what have you, and logically, if Rand's death causes the earth's rotation to reverse, then the earth should not rotate at all while he is dead. Of course, Gawyn can't balefire Rand. But that's where Moiraine comes in. Even before TOM I had decided that it was more likely that Gawyn would come very close to actually killing Rand, like Mordred mortally wounded Arthur, and that Moiraine will save Rand's soul from the Dark One by balefiring him in the nick of time. And I assume that she was told she would have to do this when she went to see the Aelfinn in TSR.
4. RJ was often reluctant to give 'favorites', and when he did (favorite authors, etc.) he generally stuck to the same list over and over, or gave the same answer over and over (the character I'm writing at the moment, the book I'm writing at the moment, etc.). Anyway, his
favorite fantasy movies were Excalibur, Terminator, and The Day the Earth Stood Still. The Excalibur references are obvious. The Terminator references too, even though I think (from what I remember) that they are more minor, even though the new breed of Darkhounds is a clear T2 reference.
5. There was an Irish goddess named Boann, known for stopping the sun (along with the Dagda) for nine months so that their son could be conceived and birthed on the same day. It's not going to go quite like that, though there might be an involvement on some level with Elayne's pregnancy (though we know she will be there to burn his body and again to resurrect him, so not much apparent time for birthing babies). Anyway, both names are referenced in WoT. Semirhage's name in the Age of Legends was Nemene Damendar Boann, and there was a skilled Yellow of the Black Ajah named Dagdara (she was in Salidar, and considered one of the best Healers). We have several foreshadowings that Nynaeve will Heal death. Incidentally, one of them said she wouldn't be happy till she'd Healed someone three days dead. That's tied to Norry saying he wouldn't believe Rand was dead until he'd sat with the body for three days. Some of those foreshadowings don't actually foreshadow the method. This one does:
TFOH 49, To Boannda said:
Marigan, a few years older, had been plump once, but her frayed brown dress hung on her loosely now, and her blunt face looked beyond weary. Her two sons, six and seven, stared silently at the world with too-big eyes; clinging to each other, they seemed frightened of everything and everyone else, even their own mother. Marigan had dealt in cures and herbs in Samara, though she had some odd ideas about both. That was no wonder, really; a woman who offered healing with Amadicia and Whitecloaks right across the river had to keep low, and even from the first she had had to teach herself. All she had ever wanted to do was cure sickness, and she claimed to have done it well, though she had not been able to save her husband. The five years since his death had been hard, and the coming of the Prophet had certainly not helped her any. Mobs searching for Aes Sedai chased her into hiding after she had cured a man of fever and rumor had turned it into bringing him back from the dead. That was how little most people knew of Aes Sedai; death was beyond the power to Heal. Even Marigan seemed to think it was not. She did not know where she was going any more than Nicola. A village somewhere, she hoped, where she could dispense herbs again in peace.
Boannda was the name of the town to which Galad paid their passage. From there they went to Salidar. But the chapter name is tied to Healing just through this foreshadowing, which is a big one, since it was Marigan who (despite her lack of interest in Healing) taught Nynaeve how to 'heal' death. It's further tied to Healing through Semirhage, and Boann is further tied to Healing through the Dagda becoming Dagdara.
I could go on. I'm working on a dissertation of sorts, to be called
L'Morte d'Althor.
But surely you can see how it all ties into Gawyn. As for Moiraine's role, not only is she also a very good Mordred parallel, she's got a foreshadowing too:
TEOTW 13, Choices said:
"What's so special about Illian?" Perrin said, yawning.
"For one thing," Mat replied, "Illian isn't full of Aes Se —"
A silence fell, and Rand was suddenly wide awake. Moiraine had come back early. Egwene was with her, but it was the Aes Sedai, standing at the edge of the firelight, who held their attention. Mat lay there on his back, his mouth still open, staring at her. Moiraine's eyes caught the light like dark, polished stones. Abruptly Rand wondered how long she had been standing there.
"The lads were just – " Thom began, but Moiraine spoke right over the top of him.
"A few days respite, and you are ready to give up." Her calm, level voice contrasted sharply with her eyes. "A day or two of quiet, and already you have forgotten Winternight."
"We haven't forgotten," Perrin said. "It's just – " Still not raising her voice, the Aes Sedai treated him as she had the gleeman.
"Is that the way you all feel? You are all eager to run off to Illian and forget about Trollocs, and Halfmen, and Draghkar?" She ran her eyes over them – that stony glint playing against the everyday tone of voice made Rand uneasy – but she gave no one a chance to speak. "The Dark One is after you three, one or all, and if I let you go running off wherever you want to so, he will take you. Whatever the Dark One wants, I oppose, so hear this and know it true. Before I let the Dark One have you, I will destroy you myself."
It was her voice, so matter-of-fact, that convinced Rand. The Aes Sedai would do exactly what she said, if she thought it was necessary. He had a hard time sleeping that night, and he was not the only one. Even the gleeman did not begin snoring till long after the last coals died. For once, Moiraine offered no help.
Tattersail, on 16 March 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:
Question. The Ter'angreal in TDR were first Nynaeve and then Egwene go through. Is there anything that links what is said or happens in there to what may come?
Quite a bit. Less from Nynaeve's test, perhaps because she's not a Dreamer, and perhaps because there wasn't another
ter'angreal in the room making things go crazy. Nynaeve saw that she would marry Lan, and that Sharina (whom she had not yet met) would be her adviser. Sharina is the only person studying to be Aes Sedai who has the potential to be stronger than Nynaeve, so that makes sense in a way. (Unless Talaan ever made it to the Tower with Merille; we haven't heard from them since COT.)
In Egwene's test, she saw herself as Amyrlin, and she knew that she had somehow done it without swearing the Oaths. She also saw herself with an ageless face, which was wrong. She saw that Elaida was Black Ajah, which was wrong, etc. But Rand begged her to kill him, said they would turn him to the Dark if she did not, and seeing as how Egwene is a Guinevere parallel with her own betrayal lurking (whatever form it might take, direct or indirect), and seeing how Gawyn is a big, fat Mordred parallel, it seems that the both of them will have some role or another in Rand's death. Egwene perhaps only indirectly through Gawyn.
Help
But surely you can see how it all ties into Gawyn. As for Moiraine's role, not only is she also a very good Mordred parallel, she's got a foreshadowing too:
