[Abyss]

Re: Braven Tooth's Used Car Dealership - i suspect that if we stick 'START HERE' in the title and put it at the top it will be clear enough.

As for regulars going there, i can't speak for anyone else, but i hit 'New Content' more or less routinely and i'm almost as likely to check out a thread in the GotM subforum as one in DoD. I don't think there's a requirement to validate every new arrival with a hug and a free copy of DG. ... tho that would be cool! (...the free book, not the hug) , but I like seeing what new arrivals have to say.


Re: user groups - some confusion on my part, but are we talking about user groups, subforums, or both?

In terms of usergroups, hey, whatever, i'm easy. They don't really add anything and while i cheerfully grant abyssmal army usergroup status to anyone who asks, the subforum is fully accesible to all and the usergroup has no special privileges except granting me access to their bank accounts and spare internal organs.

Quote

... but I do miss Abyss' sig series. Perhaps they would be perfect for a General forum that is more friendly and less prone to descend into piss taking? Things like Gamet's Book of the Forum would have been good in there too (I miss those ).

I feel obliged to point out that the sig series are loaded with spoilers. Sometimes vague ones, but even so.

As for the subforum, I never actually asked for it - i just logged in one day and there it was, all nice a shiny and a handy place to centralize the sig. series threads that kept getting lost and requested. I have seen other fanforums that had one subforum for on topic silliness, and if the elitist nature of me having my own subforum is deeply offensive to the communist community, i'm happy to throw it open to anyone else's idiocy. Except Apt because he blows goats. And Illy because if i have to rep him again for typing something clever my hands are going to explode.

Tapper, on 09 December 2009 - 11:17 PM, said:

...Usergroups may be a tad bit elitist, but reading the Abyssal forum is pure fun, and no-one I know ever got kicked from one, either, nor are they mutually exclusive or anything.

...it's so elitist we even accepted Apt. And then we killed him. Twice.

D, on 10 December 2009 - 12:36 AM, said:

...The Abyssmal Army has threads in its own subforum and there is posts in those threads. The only thing I could ask more from them is that Abyss actually get the people who like to post in there added to the actual group.
..

I don't recruit and i don't require. Anyone who asks gets their usergroup changed and anyone who wants to be a member or not can post pretty much whatever they like on the subforum with the implicit understanding that i am god and can do whatever i like to their post.

Cougar, on 10 December 2009 - 10:04 AM, said:

... it's a ceremonial position for Abyss...

I do stuff behind the scenes you don't even know Cougar. Like just this second i blocked six spoilers in Otherlit, change a thread title in DoD, PM chastised a cranky poster in the Inn and changed your userpic to that of a Carebear doing something to a My Little Pony that's illegal in Thailand.

Mezla PigDog, on 10 December 2009 - 10:05 AM, said:

... I never go in the Abyssmal Army forum because I don't like getting cat fur on my clothes...

Communist.

Lisheo, on 10 December 2009 - 11:26 AM, said:

...The Abyssmal Army doesn't actually have any visible effect apart from showing that Abyss is something of a celebrity around here, which is hard to miss even without the group, let's face it. I remember looking at Abyss with awe in my early days, before the usergroups existed. ...

Your paypal transfer has been made, btw.

Jusentantaka, on 09 December 2009 - 11:45 PM, said:

...@Abyss: The other one I got, this time I don't gets it.

Don't worry about it. just provide a credit card number.


Kidding aside, the usergroups are really an aside - Does anyone really look at those little bits on the left under the pics and tremble in awe or something?

The useful question is whether we need a general forum for any purpose and if so, spoilers in or spoilers out or what?

- Abyss, generally.

[Lisheo]

We need a general forum with spoilers in the title of thread. I think big blocks of spoilers everywhere would ruin the idea of a general forum.

[Hetan]

As you can see, I've altered the forum layout a bit - this will give you all time to take a look at the proposed layout and see if it works.

[blackzoid]

I really like this new forum layout.
Not only does it stop spoilers from new users, it's easier for the user to see interesting threads in the earlier book forums rather than going to the latest book forum all the time.
Very good job.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 11 December 2009 - 04:07 PM

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I like it. Nice work. Much more streamlined and easier for new folk. Thanks for taking the time Hetan.

Is ICE going to eventually get his own section? It looks a bit odd having RotCG plopped in the middle of SE's stuff. Once ICE has several books, it's going to be even more of an issue.

Once this general book discussion forum gets up and running, will the polls section be folded into it? It seems like it would be redundant and all of those polls could easily go into the general book forum.

[D'rek]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on 11 December 2009 - 09:08 PM, said:

Is ICE going to eventually get his own section? It looks a bit odd having RotCG plopped in the middle of SE's stuff. Once ICE has several books, it's going to be even more of an issue.

Actually I kinda like it with the ICE books mixed right in, as they do have an impact on the story and aren't seperate like the B&K novellas. It's a good indicator of what order most people read them in, too.

[Tsundoku]

blackzoid, on 11 December 2009 - 04:06 PM, said:

I really like this new forum layout.Not only does it stop spoilers from new users, it's easier for the user to see interesting threads in the earlier book forums rather than going to the latest book forum all the time.Very good job.

D, on 11 December 2009 - 09:18 PM, said:

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on 11 December 2009 - 09:08 PM, said:

Is ICE going to eventually get his own section? It looks a bit odd having RotCG plopped in the middle of SE's stuff. Once ICE has several books, it's going to be even more of an issue.

Actually I kinda like it with the ICE books mixed right in, as they do have an impact on the story and aren't seperate like the B&K novellas. It's a good indicator of what order most people read them in, too.

At risk of a "me too" post ... what BZ and D'rek said. Just seems much more ordered this way to me. But the essential nature is unchanged, which is good too.

Is Braven Tooths' Swingers Lounge going to perch right at the very top as well?

[frookenhauer]

I'm a salesman. I've looked at this thread (and read pretty much all of it too ), been doing some thinking and I want to share my thoughts. If we consider the problem of garnering new talent as a sale, and it pretty much is if you think about it cos people have to buy into the idea of taking part on the forum, then I may be of some assistance.

People come and have a look see of the website on a regular basis and this is especially true every time a new book is released, from what I've gathered thus far. So the problem is not lack of knowledge of the site, but the fact that once they come here, they leave and probably don't come back. (Bear with me, I realise this is well trodden ground, but its part of the process ) The fact is that the prospective recruit is interested or they would never be here in the first place to get turned away by whatever it is they get turned away by and everyone seems to have an opinion on why that is and everyone is probably right to a degree...even Cougar (Just kidding, I for one am in agreement with cougar on pretty much most of what he's said). So great he/she...she/he, is interested so what, there's a million things we could do to make that interest disappear and the first thing is what they see.

Appearance. Dammit but the basic screen needs to lose the whole gothic effect and be significantly more generic and less dark and brooding looking. I think that being generic on the appearance is really important, we can customise to our hearts content with extra skins, but for the new people, we dont need to put them off. The best thing I seen so far was magenta, not exactly brilliant, but it grew on me and would not scare off anybody unless they had an aversion to magenta or something. This is still a fantasy site so swords and dragon motifs and so on a par for the course, but lighter background, magnolia anyone?, would be great.

Smile. No smile no sale, or a show of friendliness. New member introduction needs to be a section in its own right and once a member does the decent thing and signs up, they should be ushered into that thread and prompted to say howdy and a few words and we can pelt them with rotten tom- I mean a few nice words of hello and nice to meet you. Along with a few pointers of stuff like, discussions / Malazan etc. Maybe even have a banner on the forum page saying recruitXXX said hello or something .

But I think I'm getting ahead of myself here, cos they've joined? How'd that happen? Probably randomly read enough of what they liked to want to be part of it all. Is there any way we can make this process a little less random? This may sound a little bad, but can we make it so that if a person becomes a member they can then and only then get to have a look at all the cool stuff on offer, members only sections like the off topic sections and other discussions, but get to see sneak previews of the good stuff like...Because there is a barrage of stuff to look at for new non members and woe betide anyone steppin into the Inn and getting bewildered by the in jokes and essentially shutting the idea of joining there and then. We need to hook them in every time they come to the site, something cool, something quirky, something hawt...We have something similar to this at the moment on forum activity, but interesting threads should be on better display at the mods' discretion, a new and noteworthy thingy. But yeah, I def think that the idea of getting them to join should be less random and maybe shutting out parts of the site for non members is the way to go. They'll be joining an exclusive club, where everyone is welcome.

Damnit, its almost 3:00 AM. Theres more, but I need to catch some ZZZZzzzzs

[Abyss]

Sombra, on 12 December 2009 - 03:03 AM, said:

...

D, on 11 December 2009 - 09:18 PM, said:

...Actually I kinda like it with the ICE books mixed right in, ...

At risk of a "me too" post ... what BZ and D'rek said. Just seems much more ordered this way to me. But the essential nature is unchanged, which is good too....

Thirded.


- Abyss, x3.

[Salt-Man Z]

I agree with Frook about the board skin. I'm a huge Malazan fan, but even I can't take the black-with-purple gothic look seriously. Accordingly, I keep my skin set to the IP Board default.

[Macros]

Grey FTW, definately a non abrasive skin, very easy on the eyes and completey generic

[Jusentantaka]

Someone's got to, so I'm gonna go weigh in (at a paltry can-be-blown-away-by-stiff-breeze) in support of the black and purple. Cause its nice, and easy on the eyes too. unless the purple is by chance the font color.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I like the black and purple.

[D'rek]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on 14 December 2009 - 07:02 PM, said:

I like the black and purple.

Me too. And the uniqueness of it I think actually adds value to the site instead of trying to be generic as Frookie suggests.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Yeah, it's a big turn-off to me when I go to a random forum and it's indistinguishable from thousands of others. Nothing wrong with being unique.

[amphibian]

To be clear: I'm in favor of the black and purple. It fits.

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on 14 December 2009 - 08:25 PM, said:

Yeah, it's a big turn-off to me when I go to a random forum and it's indistinguishable from thousands of others. Nothing wrong with being unique.

Look at the popularity of McDonalds and those chain hotels. They're built upon having the "comforts" of familiarity. The black and gold stuff is visually different, but the mechanics of using the board should ideally be close to standard so people can dive in and start swimming in short order. This place has more features to play with than most boards, which is pretty cool at times actually.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 15 December 2009 - 06:13 PM

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

But Mcdonalds is identical to other Mcdonalds. It's easy to tell the difference between a Mcdonalds and a burger king and a wendy's.

As far ease of use, I agree with you, it should be simple and intuitive to use the board, but it can be visually different.

This post has been edited by Raymond Luxury Yacht: 14 December 2009 - 09:12 PM

[frookenhauer]

Guys you're taking about personal preference. I like this and I like that and this is exactly the reason a generic cream, magnolia or grey background is fine in that it wont put anybody off (except die hard multi forum posters, maybe )...black is not a friendly colour, its very claustrophobic, moody and so on, whereas a light colour adds space and a sense of freedom. For personal preference there are a range of skins so enjoy the black and gold or purple or whatever, for the basic non member screen a generic colour and overall design is more appropriate. Anyways back to the sales pitch...

Touch. Seriously, when you touch someone lightly on the arm and make a suggestion they will listen and respond positively to what you are saying (much like the kind word and a gun saying, only nicer) and in the forumverse the touch can only be done if they reach out and post whether its in an existing thread or even a new one they started themselves. It'll be another hook everytime they post, so the onus for the introduction to new members is to keep them posting and getting hooked in and laying down roots. At present when I enter into the empire on another computer and forget to sign in and want to post a really complexly laid out screen comes up with the admonition that I need to sign in or need to become a member. Could that be adjusted to a single nice friendly screen with the fields in place to sign in on one side or become a member on the other side, all the time extolling the many virtues and benefits of becoming a valued new member of the site, so the decision is not an extra click away ( and an extra decision tree thingy) its right there and they already wanted to post so hey presto a new member and ready to post.

Customer base. How may people have become members and never posted, or used to post, or occasionally lurk, or any other scenario? Hundreds? Thousands? Is there any way to send block emails in a semi irregular pattern to bring these people back? maybe a snippet of the latest interests or a genuine, and it is, where have you been and how are you and why dont you come back and tell us all about it? Other ways is to say that much has changed and while there are plenty of new faces, yours would be a welcome addition. Another way is to ask them if they have any suggestions as to what they'd like to see on the empire and this adds a sense of ownership and should be enough to at least lurk for a while and so on. The winner of this years art contest and a clickable image of the piece... In fact every email should have a image clicky thingy to bring them right back there and then. The possibilities are limitless...I suppose the forum joining method might need to be adjusted, so the given email can be confirmed to be genuine. This method is a real numbers game and a thousand emails will get a few returners and different methods will attract different people, and a saturation effect might garner a few more, but the net result is more regular posters.

A virtual tour of the place? I had this idea, but then I remembered the XP tour, which I have never bothered with or anything like that and I reckon its a safe bet that it would be alot of work for nothing, but there needs to be a snappy way to let peopel know the sheer diversity of material on offer from art to writing to pretending to drink in an imaginary bar in a virtual tavern...I was thinking pop ups, non advertisement popups to showcase the arts section or discussions or whatever on a regular basis in the non members/unsigned in part of the forum.

Right i think i'm pretty much done, there's probably more, but I'm done for the moment in my sales guise

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Well, favoring lighter colors is your personal preference...

[D'rek]

Frook, as I read more and more of your marketing spiel, it starts to all feel like a desperate grasp to try and get as many new members as possible at any cost no matter who they are. I can see why that would be a good strategy for any physical or commercial establishment that is actually trying to generate as much revenue as possible, but that's not us. I surely can't speak for anyone other than myself, but while I'm interested in making the forum a friendlier place to people who might be interested in becoming a member here, I don't feel compelled to change away all the things I like about the forum in order to promote it to multitudes of people who didn't care for it the first time.

Sure, there are thousands of people who have been members here at some point but never posted more than twice. I don't see that as some sort of failing on our part to attract customers, rather I just think the majority of people are not as hardcore about SE as we are. If they came, asked the one question that was bothering them, or read through a hundred topics and weren't interested in becoming a member of the community, I can't say I'm surprised. I would imagine most people are not really that interested in getting involved with an internet forum about a series of books. And since we're not (much) profit off of them, what is the big loss? If they weren't interested in being here, I can't imagine they would add much to the place.