[HoosierDaddy]

Mappo, on 11 September 2009 - 06:52 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 11 September 2009 - 06:49 PM, said:

Yeah, yeah. Go get them Mafia expert.

Case in fucking point. Quit insulting me and actually do something. You're contributing nothing.

If I remember correctly, you called me so distracting I was a hindrance. Thus.

[HoosierDaddy]

I've contributed posts and votes. That's all I need to. Make your own god damned cases and don't do it on easy targets like me because I'm actually bothering to fucking post.

[HoosierDaddy]

Sorry 'bout the Mafia Expert post, Mappo. Not feeling the best and a little snappy. But, instead of calling me potentially scummy, instead just vote for me. That speaks volumes louder and is more worthwhile than talking about my potential scumminess.

[MTS]

Alright fine, you've put forth votes, and you've made many posts. However, the fact is none of that has really progressed the game, other than put the spotlight on you, not others. You've made flimsy cases. And now you put forth a vote no one is going to jump on. We don't really have a case on you from Alt anyway. It's 'I added up scummy posts and he had the most'. Hinter's is way better than yours. Why not go through Alt's posts again, while sober, and make a real case, rather than bitch with me? It would be infinitely more helpful, maybe even get a lynch. Now, I'm gonna go read the thread again, because I want to progress the game.

By the way, I didn't make a case on you. Or Hinter. I was just pointing out scummy things. I didn't vote for either of you, did I? So quit acting like a petulant child.

[MTS]

HoosierDaddy, on 11 September 2009 - 07:02 PM, said:

Sorry 'bout the Mafia Expert post, Mappo. Not feeling the best and a little snappy. But, instead of calling me potentially scummy, instead just vote for me. That speaks volumes louder and is more worthwhile than talking about my potential scumminess.

Fair enough. Ignore my last comment as well. I'm tired and frustrated.

Thing is, I don't want to vote you for the exact reason you stated: you're our last vig. And Hinter is troublesome, but I'm still not convinced.

[HoosierDaddy]

Just an FYI, in case any of you were looking for role patterns, like I was for a bit:

Dibs said he randomly assigned killer roles like normal, after having already given people their roles. So there is no method to the possible killer madness, just randomness. He said I could post this on thread. So don't waste time thinking about it like I did.

Okay, I'm going to go try to find the posts I found scummy by Alt.

[Tapper]

HoosierDaddy, on 11 September 2009 - 07:21 PM, said:

Just an FYI, in case any of you were looking for role patterns, like I was for a bit:

Dibs said he randomly assigned killer roles like normal, after having already given people their roles. So there is no method to the possible killer madness, just randomness. He said I could post this on thread. So don't waste time thinking about it like I did.

Okay, I'm going to go try to find the posts I found scummy by Alt.

OK, but that does nothing to reassure us that you're not scum
Also, I kind of agree with MTS about the effect your posts had so far - you had some good points, but also created a huge spotlight on yourself.

I'd really like a time count as this point...

[MTS]

We still have around 5 and a half hours I think.

Tired brain is tired. And I need a pen. I can't keep track of all my thinkings.

[Tapper]

Mappo, on 11 September 2009 - 07:30 PM, said:

We still have around 5 and a half hours I think.

Tired brain is tired. And I need a pen. I can't keep track of all my thinkings.

That is not a lot of time at all when it comes to finding a good lynch, and I'm not going to vote for alt without additional stuff than just the theoritising.

[HoosierDaddy]

alt146, on 10 September 2009 - 07:10 AM, said:

I think overly co-ordinating what we do at night will give the scum an advantage, since they will know exactly what to to keep themselves alive, set people up and generally screw with us. It's way too easy for scum to straightup lie about what they did at night, and they're unlikely to slip up if they have all the information required to think up something watertight. I've thought about it a bit and almost any plan we make could easily be exploited by scum. I think revealing the next day what you did is a good idea though, since our roles are out in the open we might as well get as much from it as possible. Although any revealed night actions will have to be taken with a grain of salt.

DiBs - could we have some clarificication about the mechanics - if a scum is also roled, does he get to use both actions? And how would the guarding of one or both scum affect their various actions?


This might sound wierd, but I think maybe we should use the vigs early. Mainly because I dont want to risk the scum being able to kill twice in one night two or three nights from now to seal the game. I'm not 100% sure if they should do it though.

I put my vote on PB on a faint hint of a slip really early in the day - to be honest I wasnt expecting much, but for five posts into a game it wasnt a bad lead. I would have removed it at this point if PB was playing his usual self, but he just doesnt seem to be. The slight self-pitying, the emphasis on his expendability and willingness to sacrifice himself and mainly the not that great NA ideas make me think something is up. Especially the meek 'I see know it was a bad idea' statement and withdrawl. It's nothing concrete, but I'm leaving my vote where it is unless somethig much better comes along.

alt146, on 10 September 2009 - 07:42 AM, said:

Tapper, on 10 September 2009 - 07:34 AM, said:

Bent, on 10 September 2009 - 03:42 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 09 September 2009 - 11:30 PM, said:

Oh wow, we started already?

sounds like a lovely mindfuck

PB's already sounding sympish.

Man, I was so gonna say that. At first I thought, wow, thats scummy to try to kill all of one group, based on an assumption, then he shifted to "hey, kill me" which was symish. So yeah, Id say he is a symp and, if I were to guess, Tapper is one f his killer buddies. Im off to bed, will see how close to lynch I get tomorrow, after all I did vote night, so yeah, I am RI, so if you want to lynch me, I volunteer. Im on vacation anyway...

I think you're having withdrawal issues, Bent

If PB was scum, why would he suggest a plan that includes offing himself? If he was a symp and I was killer-scum, as you think, then why would he suggest a plan that includes taking out the both of us? I know I'm not scum, I don't know about PB and I agree with alt that he's not his usual self, but I do doubt he's scum unless he's making a ballsy play to PI himself by suggesting we off him.

I do think that it's not a good plan to put us anywhere near the D-day-zone on day 2. So far, we're talking and planning, talking and planning, but not a whole lot of scumminess and case making comes up so far. Do you really want to spend day 1 talking strategy and then having only day 2 as potential d-day to lynch a scum? I'm hesitant, cause I fear it may not be enough time.

Like I said, I dont know for sure he's scum but something doesnt feel right. If he's a symp, trying to coordinate the vigs so they dont hit either of his masters is a good play, even if one of them hit him.

alt146, on 10 September 2009 - 02:53 PM, said:

Gavin is also from New Zealand.

@Hinter - like I said - I'm not sure vigging early is the best option, but I would hate for a killer who was also a vig to have a double kill late game.

Also, I picked up DoD 5 minutes ago, so I will be quietish.

alt146, on 11 September 2009 - 06:46 AM, said:

I figured the killers would go for a guard, so I healed Hinter. Seems I should have gone for Gav.

Anyway, unless I'm getting horribly confused or scum have two kills, someone must be lying here. And I think it's very unlikely scum have two kills. In fact I think DiBs might have confirmed they dont yesterday. My coffee just wore off, so sorry if I'm a little confused.

PB -> killed by DK's vig.

Two other kills -> one vig and one NK.

Hinter claims to have guarded Ment and Hoosier says he didnt vig. Which means there couldnt have been a second vig last night. Unless Gavin guarded Hinter, which there's no way of knowing.
Now Hinter started the day saying he guarded Ment. If he was scum and lying he could have said so to said so on the chance it was Ment who vigged, knowing it might set Hoosier up. If Ment didn't vig noone would know. Hoosier could lie to not look scummy and make us think there's an inno vig available when their isnt.

Edit - or Silencer is in fact lying and guarded Hinter. I'm really not sure, but there's somewhere on this page.

alt146, on 11 September 2009 - 09:09 AM, said:

And I'm back.

I understand the point you made HD, but seriously - 2 scum kills per night in a 12 player game AND three vigs is really crazy. It means the game could theoritically have won on the second day's lynch I know team inno has tons of roles, but they're all out in the open and the scum are roled too. Granted, DiBs is modding, so crazy shit is kind of expected, but that's pushing the limits. I dont know why you're so keen to immediately assume that there were two kills and not even look into the fact that people could be lying - in fact now you've voted me for wanting to do that. WCS is all good and well when planning NAs or tactics as a team, but you cant overlook something fishy because it's not WCS.

Now, you all claim me being blind about the possibility of one killer and a vig having gone off last night, Alt is denying the possibility of two killers, which is wcs and the way to play. If we look at the options, Ment couldn't have vigged because he was guarded (or that is a lie). I didn't vig. Thus, there are two killers. For me, it's as simple as that, and either the guard is scum and lying and Ment vigged last night, a possibility granted, or Alt is scum trying to get people think we have more time than there is. Hell, nobody is even really posting to begin with, so trying to persuade people it isn't D-Day, when I think it is, is scummy play to me.

That's it. I see stubborness in the face of what I see as common sense and don't like it. That's why I'm voting for him.

[Path-Shaper]

4 hours 47 left.

8 Players still alive: alt, bent, hinter, hoosierdaddy, mappo, silencer, tapper, veng

5 votes to lynch, 4 votes to go to night

2 votes for alt: ( hoosierdaddy, hinter )

Players not voted: alt, bent, mappo, silencer, tapper, veng


just so you all know i wont be awake when nigth arrives so if you finish the day in three hours, theres good chaps

[MTS]

Eh, fair enough case. It's still fixated on mechanics and not much else, but really there isn't much more to alt's posts.

I'm off to bed. It is 6:30 after all

I'm gonna submit my provisional and hopefully there's a lynch.

I will

Vote Hinter

Because I don't think a killer would be as ballsy as HD and I doubt he's a symp. Although I guess it's possible, and Hinter comes of as scum to me.

[Hinter]

alt146, on 11 September 2009 - 12:43 PM, said:

DiBs stated the the scum roles would be drawn randomly, so saying there should be a guard and a healer or w/e is silly. It could be two guards for all we know.

Who do you think HD was targetted by last night if you believe there were already two scum kills?

My issue with vigs early game was that IF a killer was also a vig, a double kill late game would be very powerful. Since everyone has decided there will be double kills anyway it's now a bit of a moot point. With two vigs down raising the possibility of a triple kill seems silly.

I suggested three people as possible scum, but noone seems to want to follow that chain of logic until we know for sure the number of kills scum have.

In terms of additional scum hunting - in order of my suspicion: I'm inclined to agree with people's assessment of Tapper as being sympish. If there is only one kill, I feel Silencer is the most likely to have lied. Bent has been very quite and gavin is a chronic low poster so not much to go on there, which is worrying. Either you or Mappo could be playing the 'present but not too involved' killer and HD is either being an incredibly ballsy killer make such a bit fuss, or is inno.

OK, I missed the scum being drawn randomly thing, which kind of screws most of my theorising.

If I knew who had targeted HD I'd be shouting "SCUM" at them by now!!

Mappo, on 11 September 2009 - 02:32 PM, said:

Has Vengeance posted at all this game day? Hoosier asked him to pop up and say who he healed and he hasn't surfaced from whatever part of the world he hails from. America, I think.

I agree with alt about speculating on what roles scum could have. It wastes time when really it cannot be proven till CF. Also as to who targeted HD - it doesn't make much sense, unless Hinter is lying and didn't guard Ment, assuming he tried to use his vig. So either Hinter lied (why, by the way, all these useless proclamations of innocence?), and the scum went for the two remaining vigs HD and Ment (a probable outcome, as you said Hinter), and Ment vigged Gavin, or Hinter is being truthful and my heal did nothing. I'm leaning towards the former, as it makes more sense. If I was scum, I would target vigs first, as they're the most dangerous.

All these useless proclomations of innocence? I think I may have said it twice, but meh, sometimes you have to say something several times to try and get it into peoples' heads. I didn't claim to know who targeted HD - you'd know if I did - I said I would have if I was scum. Something you in fact repeat in this post. I say it and I'm scummy - you say it and its all roses?

How does me being truthful (i.e guarding Ment) mean your heal did nothing?

Mappo, on 11 September 2009 - 03:19 PM, said:

Interesting that when I call you on not posting you show up fair soon...but I'm willing to credit work as a reasonable excuse.

I accede to your wisdom on scum matters. I just assumed that an insta-kill action when the players trickle down could be of a greater threat than a guard. But I see the logic.

What I find most suspicious about both HD and Hinter are repeated claims to innocence. We're all nominally inno, so no need to go entrench the notion in our brains when making a case. It seems a little to me like trying too hard. HD is suspicious as well because he's been so provocative. In the interest of the game, apparently, but I dunno...something's a little off there.

Soo...Venge healed Silencer (guard), I healed HD (vig), and Alt healed Hinter (guard). HD (supposedly) did not vig, and Hinter (supposeldy) guarded Ment, who then did not vig. That implies two killers. However, we have to trust that both HD and Hinter are telling the truth, which might be drawing too long a bow...

EDIT: spelling

First underlined bit - sorry for trying, perhaps I'll not bother posting any more because that would really help us.

Second underlined bit - so Vengy and Alt get a free pass to inno land in your book, whereas HD and I don't? Is that because we are actually pointing at people, probing a bit and voting?

Mappo, on 11 September 2009 - 05:47 PM, said:

I don't really understand it either. From what I can see he's been logical and helpful, if a little too focused on mechanics. From what I can remember, the votes were based on assumptions that he'd made, or things he was overlooking. I think. Hinter voted for him, I know that. I'll go re-read.

I was very logical and helpful in my last game. Unfortunately for the town, I was scum, and offed every motherfucking last one of them Being logical and helpful does not prove innocence.

[Vengeance]

Hinter, on 11 September 2009 - 08:55 PM, said:

OK, I missed the scum being drawn randomly thing, which kind of screws most of my theorising.

If I knew who had targeted HD I'd be shouting "SCUM" at them by now!!

I only have a couple of minutes to post. But have I missed something? When I did my reread I didn't see anyone talking about HD having been targeted last night at all. Now out of the blue you and alt are talking about HD having been targeted last night. I know that I haven't been on very much today but still you guys seem to be talking about something that I have no knowledge of and that makes me very nervous. Right now I am staring at both of you and I don't know who to vote for. I am going to try to reread and see what I missed then vote before I am off for the night.

Once again so that nobody misses it. I will probably (90% likely) not be able to get on tomorrow as I will be biking all day. If I do post it will be short.

[Vengeance]

Hinter, on 11 September 2009 - 12:19 PM, said:

I know Ment did not vig because I guarded him, HD says he did not vig, so that only leaves the possibility of two scum night kills, or either HD or Me is lying.

I'm not lying. HD was most likely targeted for NK last night because of his vig power (I'd kill him if I was scum), and Mappo has stated that he healed HD. I am going to assume HD's innocence because I need some platform from which I can take my game forward. I am also going to assume mappo's innocence because he healed our vig.

Ok I found were you started talking about HD being targeted last night.

This makes no sense to me at all. There were 3 kills last night. PB was Dk vig. Which would leave either 2 scum kills or a vig and a scum kill.

Can you explain your thoughts cause I am not following you at all?

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 1 hour and 18 minutes remaining

8 Players still alive: alt, bent, hinter, hoosierdaddy, mappo, silencer, tapper, veng

5 votes to lynch, 4 votes to go to night

1 vote for hinter: ( mappo )
2 votes for alt: ( hoosierdaddy, hinter )

Players not voted: alt, bent, silencer, tapper, veng

--
PB here to say I have plans this evening so I will not be around at the lynch.

[HoosierDaddy]

Well, this has been a waste of a day. Bent never posted and only three people voted.

[Path-Shaper]

drinks here and i am going to bed. no modkill, had tomodkill dk, bent can just post whenever, i grant an extension. i will be up in a few hours to end day and night if no one is about.

[Path-Shaper]

screw it cant sleep. am ending day.

no lynch.

[HoosierDaddy]

Well, let's hope people got their provisionals in.