[Silencer]

 HoosierDaddy, on 11 September 2009 - 10:24 AM, said:

I already spoke to the notion of Hinter, I said he could be lying, not that he was. If you are looking for easy targets, I guess I probably am after having pushed so hard at this point. I have done so to bring out information. How many fucking players have been missing though, at this point? At least wait until you and I can question others, please.

Edit: And, yes: I just said that symps don't get a vig: I'm a vig, Dkt was a vig, and if PB was a scum vig, well then we got played. But, I'm going to play the game as I've read it. If you think I'm ignorant vote me the fuck off.

Wait to do what, lol? XD

Cheers to PS on the clarification for the dual powers - seems scum would be able to do both. So I take that bit back.

[Tapper]

 HoosierDaddy, on 11 September 2009 - 10:24 AM, said:

I already spoke to the notion of Hinter, I said he could be lying, not that he was. If you are looking for easy targets, I guess I probably am after having pushed so hard at this point. I have done so to bring out information. How many fucking players have been missing though, at this point? At least wait until you and I can question others, please.

Edit: And, yes: I just said that symps don't get a vig: I'm a vig, Dkt was a vig, and if PB was a scum vig, well then we got played. But, I'm going to play the game as I've read it. If you think I'm ignorant vote me the fuck off.

Your edit: you mean Ment, right?
PB was RI. Or am I confused?

@ P-S: thanks for the clarification on killer + regular role.

[HoosierDaddy]

 Silencer, on 11 September 2009 - 10:27 AM, said:

 HoosierDaddy, on 11 September 2009 - 10:24 AM, said:

I already spoke to the notion of Hinter, I said he could be lying, not that he was. If you are looking for easy targets, I guess I probably am after having pushed so hard at this point. I have done so to bring out information. How many fucking players have been missing though, at this point? At least wait until you and I can question others, please.

Edit: And, yes: I just said that symps don't get a vig: I'm a vig, Dkt was a vig, and if PB was a scum vig, well then we got played. But, I'm going to play the game as I've read it. If you think I'm ignorant vote me the fuck off.

Wait to do what, lol? XD

Cheers to PS on the clarification for the dual powers - seems scum would be able to do both. So I take that bit back.

It's not as funny as you think, Silencer. I'm innocent. But, whatever. I get myself into trouble by making accusations and forcing people to respond. My answers might suck, but then again, I play this game drunk most of the time.

[HoosierDaddy]

 Tapper, on 11 September 2009 - 10:28 AM, said:

 HoosierDaddy, on 11 September 2009 - 10:24 AM, said:

I already spoke to the notion of Hinter, I said he could be lying, not that he was. If you are looking for easy targets, I guess I probably am after having pushed so hard at this point. I have done so to bring out information. How many fucking players have been missing though, at this point? At least wait until you and I can question others, please.

Edit: And, yes: I just said that symps don't get a vig: I'm a vig, Dkt was a vig, and if PB was a scum vig, well then we got played. But, I'm going to play the game as I've read it. If you think I'm ignorant vote me the fuck off.

Your edit: you mean Ment, right?
PB was RI. Or am I confused?

@ P-S: thanks for the clarification on killer + regular role.

Symps have the role they were given, like all of us; I was I guess, optimiscially, hoping the scum role was RI. But, I'm probably fucking wrong. But, if I am, we've basically lost this game already anyways when Dkt and PB went through the shitter.

[Silencer]

 HoosierDaddy, on 11 September 2009 - 10:33 AM, said:

 Silencer, on 11 September 2009 - 10:27 AM, said:

 HoosierDaddy, on 11 September 2009 - 10:24 AM, said:

I already spoke to the notion of Hinter, I said he could be lying, not that he was. If you are looking for easy targets, I guess I probably am after having pushed so hard at this point. I have done so to bring out information. How many fucking players have been missing though, at this point? At least wait until you and I can question others, please.

Edit: And, yes: I just said that symps don't get a vig: I'm a vig, Dkt was a vig, and if PB was a scum vig, well then we got played. But, I'm going to play the game as I've read it. If you think I'm ignorant vote me the fuck off.

Wait to do what, lol? XD

Cheers to PS on the clarification for the dual powers - seems scum would be able to do both. So I take that bit back.

It's not as funny as you think, Silencer. I'm innocent. But, whatever. I get myself into trouble by making accusations and forcing people to respond. My answers might suck, but then again, I play this game drunk most of the time.

I'm innocent. No, seriously. I am.
And putting pressure on people is good. I was just asking what you were telling me to wait for - I gave no indication of wanting to vote you, so why would you jump to that defence?

[alt146]

I think he means if PB was vigged by scum then we got played by DK. I severely doubt that was the case. Why did you get the impression I discounted paired killers Silencer? I've been saying all day we should not automatically assume the scum have two kills, which would mean paired killers.

[HoosierDaddy]

Eventually it boils down to, why did you say this? I say, because I'm trying to be progressive. I need to be progressive because I view my role as more important than yours for a certain reason. Here's the reason: I can kill the bad guys whenever while you can't. My role is pretty much only valuable during the day, thus the importance. That's why.

Also, eventually you push so much you get pushed back, and I recognize that, thus the cards on the line.

[Silencer]

I'm for bed, and I've sent my provisional this time. XD

Night all.

[HoosierDaddy]

I'm going to join Silencer. I need to sleep as well: quick math. Last thingy: 4 p.m. 24 hours 4 p.m. +6 = 10:00 p.m. or so. Never count on me for math though.

[Hinter]

 Silencer, on 11 September 2009 - 10:14 AM, said:

HD, I hope you didn't just claim that symps don't get a vig. Dibs assigned the roles THEN the scum roles.

Besides which, if I didn't guard, "I think that if he was scum guarding Hinter and killing Mental would be a decent move, why dismiss the possibility out of hand?" then this scenario is impossible, unless I missed the bit where scum can use both powers at once? Or you are saying paired scum, which I thought you'd discounted earlier, alt.

@HD - the part where you claimed that you had found two scum was when you said that you thought Hinter was lying about healing you, and that I was lying about not guarding. It's a well established fact that only scum would lie in this situation, therefore you're claiming scum find. Strawmanning a bit, I'll admit, but it's still true.

I didn't heal anyone - I guarded Ment. Mappo healed HD.

[Hinter]

I know Ment did not vig because I guarded him, HD says he did not vig, so that only leaves the possibility of two scum night kills, or either HD or Me is lying.

I'm not lying. HD was most likely targeted for NK last night because of his vig power (I'd kill him if I was scum), and Mappo has stated that he healed HD. I am going to assume HD's innocence because I need some platform from which I can take my game forward. I am also going to assume mappo's innocence because he healed our vig.

So these are my assumptions going forward (and yes I know I have little actual proof):

Inno - Hinter(guard), Mappo(healer), HD(vig)

Possible scum - Silencer(guard), Tapper(roleless), Alt(healer), Bent(roleless), Vengy(healer), Gavin(guard)

I believe scum would have a healer and a guard, no vig as they have an independant kill each.

That leaves Silencer, Alt, Vengy, Gavin.

Because of Alts "lets not vig anyone" post in early in the game (which I have mentioned before) and his subsequent posts being almost entirely speculation on mechanics rather than scum hunting, I'm going to

vote alt146

I know my logic has more holes in it than swiss cheese, but as I said, I have had to make some assumptions in order to try and get a handle on this game and move forward.

[alt146]

DiBs stated the the scum roles would be drawn randomly, so saying there should be a guard and a healer or w/e is silly. It could be two guards for all we know.

Who do you think HD was targetted by last night if you believe there were already two scum kills?

My issue with vigs early game was that IF a killer was also a vig, a double kill late game would be very powerful. Since everyone has decided there will be double kills anyway it's now a bit of a moot point. With two vigs down raising the possibility of a triple kill seems silly.

I suggested three people as possible scum, but noone seems to want to follow that chain of logic until we know for sure the number of kills scum have.

In terms of additional scum hunting - in order of my suspicion: I'm inclined to agree with people's assessment of Tapper as being sympish. If there is only one kill, I feel Silencer is the most likely to have lied. Bent has been very quite and gavin is a chronic low poster so not much to go on there, which is worrying. Either you or Mappo could be playing the 'present but not too involved' killer and HD is either being an incredibly ballsy killer make such a bit fuss, or is inno.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 12 hours and 28 minutes remaining

8 Players still alive: alt, bent, hinter, hoosierdaddy, mappo, silencer, tapper, veng

5 votes to lynch, 4 votes to go to night

2 votes for alt: ( hoosierdaddy, hinter )

Players not voted: alt, bent, mappo, silencer, tapper, veng

[Tapper]

 alt146, on 11 September 2009 - 12:43 PM, said:

DiBs stated the the scum roles would be drawn randomly, so saying there should be a guard and a healer or w/e is silly. It could be two guards for all we know.

Who do you think HD was targetted by last night if you believe there were already two scum kills?

My issue with vigs early game was that IF a killer was also a vig, a double kill late game would be very powerful. Since everyone has decided there will be double kills anyway it's now a bit of a moot point. With two vigs down raising the possibility of a triple kill seems silly.

I suggested three people as possible scum, but noone seems to want to follow that chain of logic until we know for sure the number of kills scum have.

In terms of additional scum hunting - in order of my suspicion: I'm inclined to agree with people's assessment of Tapper as being sympish. If there is only one kill, I feel Silencer is the most likely to have lied. Bent has been very quite and gavin is a chronic low poster so not much to go on there, which is worrying. Either you or Mappo could be playing the 'present but not too involved' killer and HD is either being an incredibly ballsy killer make such a bit fuss, or is inno.

Alt, Gavin is dead...

Quote

8 Players still alive: alt, bent, hinter, hoosierdaddy, mappo, silencer, tapper, veng

[MTS]

Has Vengeance posted at all this game day? Hoosier asked him to pop up and say who he healed and he hasn't surfaced from whatever part of the world he hails from. America, I think.

I agree with alt about speculating on what roles scum could have. It wastes time when really it cannot be proven till CF. Also as to who targeted HD - it doesn't make much sense, unless Hinter is lying and didn't guard Ment, assuming he tried to use his vig. So either Hinter lied (why, by the way, all these useless proclamations of innocence?), and the scum went for the two remaining vigs HD and Ment (a probable outcome, as you said Hinter), and Ment vigged Gavin, or Hinter is being truthful and my heal did nothing. I'm leaning towards the former, as it makes more sense. If I was scum, I would target vigs first, as they're the most dangerous.

[Vengeance]

Ok all caught up. I have been a little busy at work today. So this might be my only post (hope not but don't be surprised if it is).

First I healed Silencer last night. I did this because he is a guard.

Mappo I disagree with Vigs being the most dangerous to the scum. It has been my experience that guards are the most dangerous in a finderless game. As guards act like finders.

I find it very suspicious that HD was so gun ho on day one that he wasn't going to use his vig. Then (I think that it was him) claimed that there had to be 2 killers.

[MTS]

Interesting that when I call you on not posting you show up fair soon...but I'm willing to credit work as a reasonable excuse.

I accede to your wisdom on scum matters. I just assumed that an insta-kill action when the players trickle down could be of a greater threat than a guard. But I see the logic.

What I find most suspicious about both HD and Hinter are repeated claims to innocence. We're all nominally inno, so no need to go entrench the notion in our brains when making a case. It seems a little to me like trying too hard. HD is suspicious as well because he's been so provocative. In the interest of the game, apparently, but I dunno...something's a little off there.

Soo...Venge healed Silencer (guard), I healed HD (vig), and Alt healed Hinter (guard). HD (supposedly) did not vig, and Hinter (supposeldy) guarded Ment, who then did not vig. That implies two killers. However, we have to trust that both HD and Hinter are telling the truth, which might be drawing too long a bow...

EDIT: spelling

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 11 September 2009 - 03:20 PM

[alt146]

Aah right, Gavin is dead. Then Bent and Vengy both have been very quiet.

@ Mappo - now you're starting to see what I brought up right at the beginning of the day with regard to the night actions.

HD's protestations to seem a little forced, but he would have to be a hella ballsy player to play the way he has.

[Tapper]

 alt146, on 11 September 2009 - 03:43 PM, said:

Aah right, Gavin is dead. Then Bent and Vengy both have been very quiet.

@ Mappo - now you're starting to see what I brought up right at the beginning of the day with regard to the night actions.

HD's protestations to seem a little forced, but he would have to be a hella ballsy player to play the way he has.

That's what drink does

But on a serious note - I'm getting bad vibes out of the repeated inno protestrations: I attacked HD partly for that, but it seems Hinter's on it, too. It also seems that the thread is quieting down. What are your thoughts, Mappo, aside from the inno thing?

This post has been edited by Tapper: 11 September 2009 - 03:47 PM

[MTS]

Transcribing from DoD for threads is tough work.

@Alt, yeah, I've mentioned it once or twice over the past few hours. I just can't figure out who might be lying, for one of them must have - it doesn't make sense, otherwise. I'm thinking it's either HD or Hinter, but I've nothing really concrete to go on. Silencer's no-guard is a little fishy, but as I've stated before, why would he lie, even if he is scum?

My thoughts Tapper? I've got a few, but I just want to look through the thread for a bit before I voice them. They might be unfounded. Plus, it's 20 past 2 and I'm mega tired.