[Path-Shaper]

bent is dead, he was of the town.

day 3. 36 hours remaining (weekend and more sociable time for me )

7 Players still alive: alt, hinter, hoosierdaddy, mappo, silencer, tapper, veng

4 votes to lynch, 4 votes to go to night


Players not voted: alt, hinter, hoosierdaddy, mappo, silencer, tapper, veng

[HoosierDaddy]

Woohoo! Someone guarded or healed right!

[Path-Shaper]

see you lot in the morning. dont go and lynch someone now, wouldnt want to break a nail or anything...

[Silencer]

HoosierDaddy, on 11 September 2009 - 07:48 PM, said:

Now, you all claim me being blind about the possibility of one killer and a vig having gone off last night, Alt is denying the possibility of two killers, which is wcs and the way to play. If we look at the options, Ment couldn't have vigged because he was guarded (or that is a lie). I didn't vig. Thus, there are two killers. For me, it's as simple as that, and either the guard is scum and lying and Ment vigged last night, a possibility granted, or Alt is scum trying to get people think we have more time than there is. Hell, nobody is even really posting to begin with, so trying to persuade people it isn't D-Day, when I think it is, is scummy play to me.

That's it. I see stubborness in the face of what I see as common sense and don't like it. That's why I'm voting for him.

Hold on.
Ment did nothing, as he was guarded. Or the guard is lying.
You didn't vig. Or you are lying.
Now, if the guard is lying, why would they do that? Because they would be scum, so who did they actually guard knowing as we do that NK's and normal actions can be used on the same night?

Now, if I was lying about not submitting my guard, why would I do that? It gains me nothing, even if I am scum to claim I didn't submit my normal night action.

hinter - guard -> Ment
hoosierdaddy - vig -> No Action
tapper - RI -> No action
silencer - guard -> No Action
mappo - healer ->
dk - vig -> PB, modkilled
alt - healer ->
ment - vig -> Guarded, no action, dead
veng - healer -> Silencer
bent - RI -> No action
gavin - guard -> dead
pb - RI -> dead

So. Last night only Ment was guarded, at best. Gavin either chose to guard a RI, or simply missed scum. But with two vigs who did nothing, and a third with a known, confirmed target, we have two spare kills. Separate killers? Fuck, we lose. Which means that one of our vigs fired off their load last night. Which means that scum is either Hinter or Hoosier, simply. We lynch one of those two today, and I guard the other at night. That's a good plan, no?

[Silencer]

Fucking cross-posts.

I guarded Tapper.

This means nothing. Because if there are two killers with one kill between them, HD, the kill would've still gone through.

[HoosierDaddy]

That's why I'm saying that to me it looks there are two seperate killers, Silencer. One guard wouldn't block paired, but could block one.

[Silencer]

Vote Hoosier

My reasoning.
Night one, we had three kills, one was Dkt's vig. Ment, our other vig, was guarded. So what is the most logical conclusion? Our final vig is also a killer. So he got two kills that night. And on night two? Only one kill. Most coincidental. And why would they choose Bent, of all people? It can't have been a vig trying to get rid of dead weight, because HD is our only vig left.
Now, unless Hinter guarded HD, the I say we vote Hoosier off today.

[HoosierDaddy]

Interesting. I'll be watching this potential train.

[MTS]

Hinter, on 11 September 2009 - 08:55 PM, said:

Mappo, on 11 September 2009 - 02:32 PM, said:

Has Vengeance posted at all this game day? Hoosier asked him to pop up and say who he healed and he hasn't surfaced from whatever part of the world he hails from. America, I think.

I agree with alt about speculating on what roles scum could have. It wastes time when really it cannot be proven till CF. Also as to who targeted HD - it doesn't make much sense, unless Hinter is lying and didn't guard Ment, assuming he tried to use his vig. So either Hinter lied (why, by the way, all these useless proclamations of innocence?), and the scum went for the two remaining vigs HD and Ment (a probable outcome, as you said Hinter), and Ment vigged Gavin, or Hinter is being truthful and my heal did nothing. I'm leaning towards the former, as it makes more sense. If I was scum, I would target vigs first, as they're the most dangerous.

All these useless proclomations of innocence? I think I may have said it twice, but meh, sometimes you have to say something several times to try and get it into peoples' heads. I didn't claim to know who targeted HD - you'd know if I did - I said I would have if I was scum. Something you in fact repeat in this post. I say it and I'm scummy - you say it and its all roses?

How does me being truthful (i.e guarding Ment) mean your heal did nothing?

Mappo, on 11 September 2009 - 03:19 PM, said:

Interesting that when I call you on not posting you show up fair soon...but I'm willing to credit work as a reasonable excuse.

I accede to your wisdom on scum matters. I just assumed that an insta-kill action when the players trickle down could be of a greater threat than a guard. But I see the logic.

What I find most suspicious about both HD and Hinter are repeated claims to innocence. We're all nominally inno, so no need to go entrench the notion in our brains when making a case. It seems a little to me like trying too hard. HD is suspicious as well because he's been so provocative. In the interest of the game, apparently, but I dunno...something's a little off there.

Soo...Venge healed Silencer (guard), I healed HD (vig), and Alt healed Hinter (guard). HD (supposedly) did not vig, and Hinter (supposeldy) guarded Ment, who then did not vig. That implies two killers. However, we have to trust that both HD and Hinter are telling the truth, which might be drawing too long a bow...

EDIT: spelling

First underlined bit - sorry for trying, perhaps I'll not bother posting any more because that would really help us.

Second underlined bit - so Vengy and Alt get a free pass to inno land in your book, whereas HD and I don't? Is that because we are actually pointing at people, probing a bit and voting?

I'm telling you it sounds fishy that both you and HD keep telling us you're innocent, when there is literally no need to, not that you shouldn't post. By all means, post, but you're not doing yourself any favours.

As to alt and Venge, no, I'm not giving them a free pass to inno land. Not by a long shot. Show me a good case and I'll be happy to vote for them. They just haven't shown up on my scumdar, is all. She's new, and not very sensitive, but still. Venge hasn't posted much at all, and I haven't seen much that is overtly scummy about alt. HD's case made a couple of good points, but it hasn't really convinced me.

As to my heal doing nothing, I may be confusing myself, but even with two killers, it doesn't make sense that HD could be targeted and all the others dying. DK vigged PB, and Ment and Gavin died. If we have two killers, and only one vig, then in my mind HD could not have been targeted, thus my heal did nothing. I did not say you were scummy for positing that scum would go for vigs, by the way. It was sensible. I said so. I don't know where you're getting that from?

Hinter said:

]

Mappo, on 11 September 2009 - 05:47 PM, said:

I don't really understand it either. From what I can see he's been logical and helpful, if a little too focused on mechanics. From what I can remember, the votes were based on assumptions that he'd made, or things he was overlooking. I think. Hinter voted for him, I know that. I'll go re-read.

I was very logical and helpful in my last game. Unfortunately for the town, I was scum, and offed every motherfucking last one of them Being logical and helpful does not prove innocence.

You make a good point. However, I haven't seen much that is scummy about his posting, so that's why I think he might be genuine. I could very well be wrong, though, and curse me in SH if that is the case. As of now, I don't see much that merits a lynch.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Mafia expert coming through...

[Silencer]

Comment on what I have said about HD, then, MTS. XD

Discussions are the way forward.

[MTS]

Oh, I missed your little case there. My bad.

Your reasoning is sound. However, last night's night actions could unhinge it. If Hinter guarded HD, like you said. Or if you guarded the killer. Or, if one of the healers prevented a kill. I don't think the killers offing Bent helps your case on HD though. He's an obvious target. No one would have healed him, because he's done nothing. I think we need to get some NAs down on the table so we can better draw some conclusions. I healed Silencer.

As to your other point, I'm not sure what you mean. If we have separate killers, how does that mean one of the vigs fired off?

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 12 September 2009 - 05:56 AM

[Silencer]

No, if we have separate killers then one of them is Tapper or Hinter's guard choice. Unless Hinter or I AM the killer, in which case, well, it goes to WIFOM heaven, don't it?

If we have two separate, NK-wielding killers, each of whom at the start of the game could have had a day/night vig as well? C'mon. It's either a pair or an individual. We can't operate on the other assumption, even if it IS WCS. We just wouldn't be able to win short of some VERY fortuitous vigging, which also DiBs wouldn't have been able to allow for, given either or both of them could have been a vig themselves.

I just think that three kills on night one, and two on night two, is a bit fishy given we've got one spare vig lying around. It works out if we have two separate killers, yes...it also works if Hinter was lying - but that would make HIM scum.

Of course, with the addition of healers into the mix, most speculation is useless - which is why I originally said that we just have guards work, rather than healers AND guards, and you now must see the reasoning behind that...

[HoosierDaddy]

Two kills night two? Really? Thought it was just Bent.

[MTS]

Two kills? There was just Bent...

EDIT: X-post

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 12 September 2009 - 06:12 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

Silencer wanting to vote me off is a bit of poetic justice though, truth be told. Lol.

[MTS]

Poetic justice? How?

Anyway, I'm off for a little bit. Things to do, people to see.

[HoosierDaddy]

That's for you to find out in Spoiler Heaven.

[Silencer]

Someone obviously tried to kill me last night. XD

Two kills night two was a train of thought thing - three, two, one, kind of thing. lol. Besides, HD clearly thought there were two kills night two, just that one failed.

[HoosierDaddy]

Nice try, Silencer! Lol. How could I try to kill last night if I'd already used my vig night one, eh?

[Silencer]

Because in my current scenario you're the devil, lol.

In all seriousness, though, I was just kidding. This game is practically stalled, atm, and without any further night action reports, we're stuck for the moment. Dragon sex?