[Vengeance]

I think that she knew...She just didn't know when they were going to meet them. She was probably hoping that it would have been after the Perish and Khundryl meet up. She was only off by a day or so. The Khundryl were close enough to make their suicide run and another day or so and the Perish would have been there....

[flea]

I think I need to reread the parts of BH about the contraptions in the imperial warren--isn't that where they find the flying mountains? That means Cotillion, Tavore, QB, Stormy know these beings are about.

[HoosierDaddy]

Yes, on the march to Y'ghatan, Tavore sends QB, Kalam, and Stormy off to investigate in the Imperial Warren, where they see 11-13 of these floating around.

Cotillion visits them as they are attempting to infiltrate one of them.

When asked, "What she's been up to" in Reaper's Gale, Menandore says, "Sky Keeps." Just another tidbit.

[flea]

funny, but I don't remember a lot of speculation about the skykeeps before DoD came out...or am I wrong? In retrospect it looks obvious, especially when one rereads the prologue. Of course the matron is getting ready for her traditional enemy.

[HoosierDaddy]

Most figured KCCM as possibly part of the bad guys, to be honest, if I remember correctly.

[flea]

I'm sure you're right. My brain is addled these days--I have to take some fucking Education classes about English Language Learners even though I am in my 24th year of teaching. And I have been teaching AP English, newspaper and yearbook. The last chapter was about special ed and ELL, neither of whom I teach. Sorry for the rant. Fuck California.

Interesting about Stormy, that he is now involved. And how cool is it that we can only guess about Tavore? It was so smart of SE to keep us in the dark about her even though she is often in front of us. I have become more curious about her than about QB, and that's saying a lot. Neither a meaningless death, kind of like her sister, nor a badass coming out for Tavore would surprise me.

[blackzoid]

flea, on 17 September 2009 - 03:14 AM, said:

funny, but I don't remember a lot of speculation about the skykeeps before DoD came out...or am I wrong? In retrospect it looks obvious, especially when one rereads the prologue. Of course the matron is getting ready for her traditional enemy.

AhA! Its time for my head to expand with pride!
I mentioned that I thought the civil war was continuing way back in this thread here:
http://forum.malazan...?showtopic=8963
A year and a half before DoD was published.
(Although maybe someone thought of it before then, and just didn't say it)

In a humble way, I very much rock.

[cauthon]

Abyss, on 08 September 2009 - 04:20 PM, said:

<snip>
And the way they jumped right into it, using the Vegath, the Kell and the Shigal in ways no KC would ever think of, pretending they thought they could win even when they 'knew' they couldn't and making the KC believe it. The bit where Gesler had Stormy split the Ve'Gath, lure the Nahruk into the gap and then charges the Kell in had me cheering (quietly, as it was 3am).
</snip>

Now, now. I got there at about 3:45 AM :-)

It was totally awesome, the complete arc, how things start to fit together. We already had a feeling of that with the BH book and RG, but here we are really getting somewhere. I hope there remain some loose ends still, as that gives us reason to contemplate, to think, to argue, to reread, to explore, ...

[Abyss]

blackzoid, on 17 September 2009 - 09:12 AM, said:

flea, on 17 September 2009 - 03:14 AM, said:

funny, but I don't remember a lot of speculation about the skykeeps before DoD came out...or am I wrong? In retrospect it looks obvious, especially when one rereads the prologue. Of course the matron is getting ready for her traditional enemy.

AhA! Its time for my head to expand with pride!
I mentioned that I thought the civil war was continuing ...

But a couple of interesting points follow on this... for instance, WHY are they back?

Were they hiding on the moon and forced to flee when it got jaded? Or have they always been in the process of coming back and it just took this long?

Why, after their K'CHAIN CHE'ARSEKICKING ARMY OF LIZARDWIN were done pounding on them, did Gesler note that the KN seemed 'dead'?


- Abyss, lizarded out.

[Aptorian]

I thought the dead part was related to the fact that the Nahruk existed only to kill the KCCM. They were consumed by their own hatred.

[limping dog]

Aptorian, on 22 September 2009 - 06:10 PM, said:

I thought the dead part was related to the fact that the Nahruk existed only to kill the KCCM. They were consumed by their own hatred.

Gesler uses the term 'bred down' to describe the KN. The 'walking dead' comment would just mean they were bred as fodder, granted destructive fodder, but fodder none the less. Would seem either the Matron or whoever is controlling the KN doesn't want them to think for themselves.

[Abyss]

Agreed.

The thing where the two rebel shi'gal ate the matron's brain makes me wonder if there is a cabal of 'higher' KN who have an ensplaved Matron or two to breed soldiers.

Of course, the CG could be behind the whole thing. That would explain a lot.


I also jump back to the apparent KN Karsa fought in HoC. (and before anyone says it was a KC, the description definitely says short stunted tail - sure it could have been cut off or something, but the suggestion was really big KN) that one was way bigger than these. It grabbed Karsa in one hand at one point and he rides its shoulders to punch it in the brains. During the DoD fight, these KN were described as half again as tall as humans, and there were scenes of marines climbing up the armour to stab and so on. could have been another Matron experiment gone wrong or one created for a specific purpose.

...Actually, now that i think about it, didn't the Shi'gal have short tails?

That would also explain it, given how big Shi'gal are.


- Abyss, ....hmmmm

[beru]

i dont think karsa is able to kill a shigall assasin, seeing how three matrons (i think) made the death spell and two shi galls can take down a matron...


beru karsa hater

[MTS]

Also, that one didn't have wings. Maybe it's the KCNR equivalent of a Ve'Gath.

[Illuyankas]

One dragon killed a Matron, one Kallor killed a dragon, one Karsa would kill a Kallor, no point in saying definitive A>B for most matchups. Besides, most of them are Karsa>Them unless you can sword good.

[Abyss]

The wings were a new innovation to the Shi'gal that the Matron came up with. Gu'rull was the first one to have them.

Plus the Matron was bugnuts by the time the two Shi'gal ate her headparts.

I dunno... there's a certain temptation to believing that SE lead us one way but was actually going another with the question of just what Karsa fought in HoC. K'chain, undoubtably, but why would a 'mere' KN drone be imprisoned by the Nameless Ones, much less survive.


- Abyss, wants to believe.

[MTS]

Gu'Rull was the first to have wings? I don't remember a mention of this. Could you provide a quote?

[Abyss]

Mappo, on 23 September 2009 - 02:27 PM, said:

Gu'Rull was the first to have wings? I don't remember a mention of this. Could you provide a quote?

From the prologue conveniently posted upforum...

Quote

The Shi'gal had not ventured outside Ampelas Rooted in eight centuries. In that short span of time, it was likely that little had changed in the region known to humans as the Wastelands. Nonetheless, some advance scouting was tactically sound.
With this in mind, Gu'Rull unfolded his month-old wings, spreading the elongated feather-scales so that they could flatten and fill out under the pressure of the wind.
And then the assassin dropped over the sheer edge of Brow, wings snapping out to their fullest extent, and there arose the song of flight, a low, moaning whistle that was, for the Shi'gal, the music of freedom.
Leaving Ampelas Rooted … it had been too long since Gu'Rull felt this … this exhilaration.
The two new eyes beneath the lines of his jaw now opened for the first time, and the compounded vision – of the sky ahead and the ground below – momentarily confused the assassin, but after a time Gu'Rull was able to enforce the necessary separation, so that the vistas found their proper relationship to one another, creating a vast panorama of the world beyond.
Acyl's new flavours were ambitious, indeed, brilliant. Was such creativity implicit in madness? Perhaps.
Did that possibility engender hope in Gu'Rull? No. Hope was not possible.

- Abyss, wonders if eating with those new eyes is really gross...

[MTS]

How, then, can Quick know that the Shi'gal have wings? I don't think he's met any Che'Malle in the past month...

[Abyss]

does Quick specifically say Shi'gal, as opposed to just K'chain? (i assume you're refing the scenes just after Gesler and Stormy are abducted).

- Abyss, needs some quote fu magic here...