[Urizen]

Lister of Smeg, on Aug 26 2009, 05:43 PM, said:

Urizen, on Aug 26 2009, 08:41 AM, said:

I too liked Spax but I felt Spax and his Barghast where out of character, being content with hanging around the Bolkando not fighting. The general theme of DoD was that the Barghast had had it with Tool and his peace, love and understanding ways, yet we are supposed to accept Spax breaking away from Tool only to wind up in the same situation with the Bolkando.

I thought it was because Spax and his clan stayed out of the Wastelands proper by remaining in Bolkando. As a result they stayed out of Olar Ethil's influence, which was one of the main reasons the Barghast turned so barbaric.

Olar Ethil had influence on the Barghast?? At most I thought the Barghast were influenced toward pillage and murder by their gods.

[polishgenius]

Urizen, on Aug 26 2009, 07:04 PM, said:

Olar Ethil had influence on the Barghast?? At most I thought the Barghast were influenced toward pillage and murder by their gods.

I couldn't tell you where but it's definitely mentioned that she does.

[Obdigore]

Urizen, on Aug 26 2009, 01:04 PM, said:

Lister of Smeg, on Aug 26 2009, 05:43 PM, said:

Urizen, on Aug 26 2009, 08:41 AM, said:

I too liked Spax but I felt Spax and his Barghast where out of character, being content with hanging around the Bolkando not fighting. The general theme of DoD was that the Barghast had had it with Tool and his peace, love and understanding ways, yet we are supposed to accept Spax breaking away from Tool only to wind up in the same situation with the Bolkando.

I thought it was because Spax and his clan stayed out of the Wastelands proper by remaining in Bolkando. As a result they stayed out of Olar Ethil's influence, which was one of the main reasons the Barghast turned so barbaric.

Olar Ethil had influence on the Barghast?? At most I thought the Barghast were influenced toward pillage and murder by their gods.

The Barghast gods were weeping at what the Barghast was doing.

[Set'alahd Crool]

Urizen, on Aug 26 2009, 07:04 PM, said:

Lister of Smeg, on Aug 26 2009, 05:43 PM, said:

Urizen, on Aug 26 2009, 08:41 AM, said:

I too liked Spax but I felt Spax and his Barghast where out of character, being content with hanging around the Bolkando not fighting. The general theme of DoD was that the Barghast had had it with Tool and his peace, love and understanding ways, yet we are supposed to accept Spax breaking away from Tool only to wind up in the same situation with the Bolkando.

I thought it was because Spax and his clan stayed out of the Wastelands proper by remaining in Bolkando. As a result they stayed out of Olar Ethil's influence, which was one of the main reasons the Barghast turned so barbaric.

Olar Ethil had influence on the Barghast?? At most I thought the Barghast were influenced toward pillage and murder by their gods.

Considering Olar Ethil was manipulating events to remind everyone - the T'lan Imass included - that the T'lan Imass were slayers of children it's a bit much to think she didn't have some sort of hand in the Barghast behaviour that pushed Tool over the edge.

[Epiph]

She says herself, though, that she wasn't ready for him to die. But I suppose she could have been anticipating some other action than "Kill me to save yourselves!"

[ISTN4249]

Illuyankas, on Aug 18 2009, 11:44 AM, said:

And the Imass that didn't follow Tool - the remaining Unbound, now apparently no longer following the CG, for instance - could join.

where does it say they no longer follow the CG? they go to meet with the Bonehunters, who's ultimate goal is to free the Chained God. it would make sense that they still work for the CG then.

[Illuyankas]

That's the reason why 'apparently' is there, buddy.

[ISTN4249]

then saying "apparently" isnt necessary at all because there is nothing to indicate they arent following the CG's orders/path/whatever

anyways

regarding the FA getting their shit kicked in, i got the impression that the ones chasing the line of children weren't the "nasties" of the FA. why would they super haughty "badder-than-all" FA warriors bother to go after a couple thousand kids. it was probably a training mission for young'ins

don't discount The Watch either. He's the sword arm of the original Shake...who were the remaining elite commanders charged by someone to guard the shore against the endless waves of Tiste Liosan encroaching on Kharkanas' and the realm of the Dark. not exactly a pussy.

[Illuyankas]

I added apparently because the tone of their responses to Masan Gilani suggested they'd left the CG's employ, but I could have been wrong. As for your other two points, I'm thinking that to fill out and take over a country after all the genocide they've done and had done to them, they're breeding with humans just to make up the numbers and those were some of the newer ones; and hell yeah, I loved the beach made of Shake bones.

[Urizen]

Illuyankas, on Aug 27 2009, 01:06 AM, said:

I added apparently because the tone of their responses to Masan Gilani suggested they'd left the CG's employ,

huh, I thought the reverse. Urugal's bit about how now we're just five but soon we'll be seven again sounded very similar to how they talked to Karsa back in HoC..

[mayhem]

Another thing everyone seems to have forgotten about the Shake - Yan Tovis and the Watch both have *Royal* Andii blood.
Remember Sandalaths comments about how only Andii blood could open the road and only royal blood would keep it open, yet Twilight was able to keep it open long enough for several thousand refugees to pass through, which means she must be pretty damn high up.
Also, the original Watch stood between the darkness and the light, holding the border against both sides. She quotes the Edur as being 'their own bastard get' and Scar Bandaris as the first prince, implying that the Shake are the creators of the Edur.

[MTS]

The Watch dodged an attack and cut off the FA's head, did he not? Seems like a deal-breaker for most fighters...

[Epiph]

mayhem, on Aug 27 2009, 05:31 AM, said:

She quotes the Edur as being 'their own bastard get' and Scar Bandaris as the first prince, implying that the Shake are the creators of the Edur.

That whole thing about Scar Bandaris, who I can only assume is Scabandari, being the first prince directly contradicts Tulas Shorn's account that Scabandari killed the Royal Edur and thus caused the Sundering of Emurlahn. So, if not Bloodeye, who was Scar Bandaris, and if Bloodeye, what the hell was Tulas Shorn talking about? It sort of puts everything Tulas Shorn said into question.

[MTS]

Not really Epiph. He could have been royal and still spill the blood, ensuring he was the only one left to claim power, thus not having to share it. Then the Sundering is presumably a possibility he did not anticipate. Doesn't really contradict anything said by Shorn.

[Varan]

I don't think the FA have neccessarily been watered down or any of that, the fact that calm couldnt be killed and had to be pinned just implies that she was unique, and I wouldnt be surprised if she pops up again, I suspect she probably is one of the catalyst to whats happening in kolanese, with her been freed for a good few years now.

Second yedan, the watch - has Royal Andii blood, and as DoD kept going on about how the royal blood gave them access to memories and etc, so im guessing the the title and the blood bestows the power. Also the FA yedan faced didnt have a hold on his name, but the title obviously meant something to it, so the FA have probably had a run in with a previous watch at some point and knows enough to be afraid.

Second Sand is Queen of Dark, and her being a hostage and everything makes me think thats she has royal andii blood as well, and with her being orfantals (and by extensions korlats) mother, i wouldn't be surprised if she is a eleint soletaken.

All in all I cant wait till the CG comes out...

This post has been edited by Varan: 27 August 2009 - 03:39 PM

[Grief]

Epiph, on Aug 27 2009, 03:58 PM, said:

mayhem, on Aug 27 2009, 05:31 AM, said:

She quotes the Edur as being 'their own bastard get' and Scar Bandaris as the first prince, implying that the Shake are the creators of the Edur.

That whole thing about Scar Bandaris, who I can only assume is Scabandari, being the first prince directly contradicts Tulas Shorn's account that Scabandari killed the Royal Edur and thus caused the Sundering of Emurlahn. So, if not Bloodeye, who was Scar Bandaris, and if Bloodeye, what the hell was Tulas Shorn talking about? It sort of puts everything Tulas Shorn said into question.

Perhaps Scabandari took the name to be accepted?

Alternatively the Shake(holding the border between light and dark) were the royal Edur(after all, if Scar is the prince it begs the question of king and queen) and Scabandari killed the original shake creators of the edur?

[Father Light]

I've got some serious issues with this book. All the introspective whingeing was annoying, it took up more time than any other book so far and wasted waaay to much time. This was, however, mitigated by the strength of the finish. Awesome, why couldn't more of the book have been like that, or at least flowing like all previous installments

Barghast....VILE. Erikson is being too heavily influenced by Bakker in this sort of thing.

Icarium, not dead. and ref his "underwhelming" power. He wasn't enraged which is supposed to increase his power massively. So a relatively relaxed and curious Icarium is perhaps the most powerful creature in malaz. Possible replacement fro Hood now that he's back in the land of the living or at least undead.

Jaghut army? what was that for? Scary!

Mother dark's back, as Rake went to meet her will we be seeing him again. Hope so, my fave character.

And not massivley enamoured of the weaker version of the FA.

[MTS]

Father Light, on Aug 30 2009, 01:37 AM, said:

I've got some serious issues with this book. All the introspective whingeing was annoying, it took up more time than any other book so far and wasted waaay to much time. This was, however, mitigated by the strength of the finish. Awesome, why couldn't more of the book have been like that, or at least flowing like all previous installments.

Barghast....VILE. Erikson is being too heavily influenced by Bakker in this sort of thing.
Fair points. I thought the book flowed nicely though. With regards to the Barghast, they were supposed to be vile, so as to turn Tool into what he becomes. SE obviously achieved his aim there. Too heavily influenced by Bakker? I don't think so. He's been just as vile all throughout. Necrophiles, rape, some of the gruesome treatment by the Whirlwind and Karsa...it's been there since the beginning.

Icarium, not dead. and ref his "underwhelming" power. He wasn't enraged which is supposed to increase his power massively. So a relatively relaxed and curious Icarium is perhaps the most powerful creature in malaz. Possible replacement fro Hood now that he's back in the land of the living or at least undead.
Icarium is not replacing Hood. I thought it was fairly clear that the Bridgeburners and Iskar Jarak are replacing Hood. They're now the Guardians of the Dead. I don't think he's dead either.

Jaghut army? what was that for? Scary!
Hood's up to something. That's what they're for.

Mother dark's back, as Rake went to meet her will we be seeing him again. Hope so, my fave character.
No, I highly doubt we'll be seeing Rake again. That would cheapen his sacrifice. I think Draconus is going to be the one filling in for Rake in the final book.

And not massivley enamoured of the weaker version of the FA.
We don't know why they were weakened, or that they are indeed weak. The Watch has turned out to be a total badass, and we don't really know the extent of Badalle's power. She could be a big player. Besides, Calm and Serenity could be exceptions. FA Ascendants or champions, possibly.

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 29 August 2009 - 03:57 PM

[polishgenius]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Aug 29 2009, 04:55 PM, said:

No, I highly doubt we'll be seeing Rake again. That would cheapen his sacrifice. I think Draconus is going to be the one filling in for Rake in the final book.

I do doubt we'll see Rake again, but it's not as if Erikson hasn't got a history of bringing characters back after tragic or heroic deaths.

[tiam]

Varan, on Aug 27 2009, 04:37 PM, said:

I don't think the FA have neccessarily been watered down or any of that, the fact that calm couldnt be killed and had to be pinned just implies that she was unique, and I wouldnt be surprised if she pops up again, I suspect she probably is one of the catalyst to whats happening in kolanese, with her been freed for a good few years now.

Second yedan, the watch - has Royal Andii blood, and as DoD kept going on about how the royal blood gave them access to memories and etc, so im guessing the the title and the blood bestows the power. Also the FA yedan faced didnt have a hold on his name, but the title obviously meant something to it, so the FA have probably had a run in with a previous watch at some point and knows enough to be afraid.

Second Sand is Queen of Dark, and her being a hostage and everything makes me think thats she has royal andii blood as well, and with her being orfantals (and by extensions korlats) mother, i wouldn't be surprised if she is a eleint soletaken.

All in all I cant wait till the CG comes out...

Doesnt Sandalth say something along the lines of her daughter followed Rake in the footsteps of the Eleint in MT suggesting that she isnt but Korlat and ORfantal are?