[Gothos]

Oh come on. It's a sequel to a film with battle rhinos, stylized overcast, sober Jimmy McNulty and Gerald Butler's beard, what kind of historical accuracy did you expect?

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 21 March 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

QT, lets not confuse a few correct names and locations with history shall we?

Battle of Marathon - Occurred. The Athenians fought off the Persians under Darius I at Marathon, which was the impetus for his son Xerxes to start the second invasion 10 years later.

Battle of Salamis - Occurred. An alliance of Greek city states fought a naval battle in the bay against a Persian navy commanded by a woman, and beat them, unifying Greece.

Both these events are in the film. Their particulars and the rest is pretty wrapping and fudging the numbers for the Box Office/audience, most of whom are average action-movie-junkies who wouldn't sit through a documentary (like we might) if you paid them to.

[Macros]

Ok, batte of marathon occured, yes. Athenians and plateuians (i don t know their plurality) attacked, after 5 days of watching, waiting for the Spartans to arrive, they saw an opportunity and took it (debates whether it was a response to Persian mobilisation or Persian cavalry had pissed off for lunch). Darius died in Egypt putting down a revolt, logically his sons response in a for of grief would be to gk and slaughter their first born biblical style, so yes the battle of marston occured. Persians desire for empire and desire to crush the Greeks after their supporting the Ionian revolts was a far bigger impetus for the second invasion.
we have a battle name and location, that's all that's correct in that passage

Eva Green?
EVA GREEN?
Lets get this immeadiatley clear, eva was a minor commander, only notable in the fact she had boobs, her contingent was in the region of about ten ships, probably less.
so we have a name
Salamis happened, in a completely different fashion and at considerably shorter odds, Sparta were on board from the get go and the united Greek navy lured them in to a place where numbers and training mattered less,
again, we have a correctly named battle

So, the only history present is names and places, like I said.
your box sir, please climb back into it

[Macros]

Oh, old giant jewelry magnate is reputed to have watched salamis from a throne atop a mountain, I'll grant that
provided it wasn't one of Herodotus' embelishments

[QuickTidal]

I'm baffled Macros.

I'll just reiterate what Gothos said.

The first movie had a GOAT GUARD Persian.

Poetic license is not only warranted, it's imperative.

I know about the actual battles too...but I'd never pay money to see a big screen version of it that was exacting to that degree, I dunno who would to be honest.

[polishgenius]

Apt Hoc, on 17 March 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

Still don't think Heimdal should be black, grumble, grumble.

But if you had Heimdall being white, you couldn't have Heimdall being played by Idris fucking Elba. And that would be a loss.

[Malaclypse]

See, I find the 300 films an absolute disgrace - the first one was so disgusting that my disappointment of the simple fact that they made a second one has a character that is almost certainly impossible for anyone who liked either of them to understand so it is not to them I direct the following comments

The story of Thermopylae has almost certainly been embellished already and it is a rousing story. IT DID NOT NEED BATTLE RHINOS AND 80'S NINJAS! Rhinos are virtually blind and could never perform in this way - this is offensive because it's a good story already and the idea that kids are growing up thinking that maybe this shit is true fills me with loathing. Talking about Frank Miller, Sin City was absolute crap as well imo - he posits the notion of pure evil - Frodo has no reason to be evil but he just is - it's an infantile expression of hatred of religion and government, which somehow finds an audience and yet these same people happily suck the corporate cock for their whole lives and see no contradiction.

Grr arrgh

ETA: I'm totally ok with Heimdall being black, but the asian guy and the musketeer or whatever he's supposed to be are vaguely irritating.

This post has been edited by Malaclypse: 22 March 2014 - 12:00 AM

[QuickTidal]

Malaclypse, on 21 March 2014 - 11:54 PM, said:

this is offensive because it's a good story already and the idea that kids are growing up thinking that maybe this shit is true fills me with loathing.

Any child, or adult for that matter who thinks that anything in the 300 films is "true" in any way other than very, very loosely...names and places...should be sterilized anyways for being dumb as paint and a blight on humanity's ass.

300 films are what they are. Fun, stupid entertainment.

[Malaclypse]

Alright, I agree but it seems to me that by saying this you are expressing doubt that these gullible people exist and I assure you that they do. I admit to some confusion regarding what ought to be done with such people because my immediate and visceral reaction is to eliminate them via an IQ virus, essentially a nanovirus that infects us all and reacts to low forebrain activity (essentially a lack of curiousity) by killing the host but this is unpopular so the only other option as I see it is to attempt to educate them and rubbish films like 300 do not help. And Frank Miller, excepting all his good work with Wolverine in the comics, just serves to confuse and titillate the unwashed masses with his infantile philosophy as expressed in these films. It's unconscionable imo and I'd tell him so to his face.

[Malaclypse]

He didn't 'come up' with anything - the story of Thermopylae was well established more than a thousand fucking years ago - he embellished beyond the point of recognition which I find offensive and lazy. He made a noble thing ridiculous imo and I have no forgiveness in me for that.

[Malaclypse]

I will take that poor offering as capitulation, unless you can summon the courage to mount an adult response?

This post has been edited by Malaclypse: 22 March 2014 - 01:58 AM

[Malaclypse]

It is an unworthy hobby but I do so enjoy taking the piss out of of up-jumped fools.

[Malaclypse]

Oh come on! It's nothing personal, I just want a decent scrap!

Do you imagine that your weak yet snide comments represent meaningful opposition?

Try harder ffs!

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Well, Herodotus' version of it all is taken as gospel, but even he could have embellished what happened, and likely did, considering he was a toddler when it took place. Little of his colorful anecdotes are or were verifiable, and the Frank Miller and Zach Snyder stuff just takes those unverifiable legends and adds a bunch of truck driver speed and mescaline to it because our entertainment these days isn't so much a ball-in-a-cup as it is sensory overload.

I find things like changing Asha Greyjoy's name to Yara and a complete lack of Vargo Hoat much more offensive.

[Malaclypse]

Spoilsport Stonny, on 22 March 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

Well, Herodotus' version of it all is taken as gospel, but even he could have embellished what happened, and likely did, considering he was a toddler when it took place. Little of his colorful anecdotes are or were verifiable, and the Frank Miller and Zach Snyder stuff just takes those unverifiable legends and adds a bunch of truck driver speed and mescaline to it because our entertainment these days isn't so much a ball-in-a-cup as it is sensory overload.

I find things like changing Asha Greyjoy's name to Yara and a complete lack of Vargo Hoat much more offensive.

Aha! interesting! I've already said that the story of Thermopylae has almost certainly been embellished already, embellished enough imo. Adding battle-rhinos and turning the Immortals into ninjas is offensive to me. And yeah, Herodotus has to be taken with more than a grain of salt - remember the tribe of goat-fuckers? As much as I wouldn't put anything past the capabilities of human amorality, goat-fucking could never be a part of a society that was in any way viable. Not impossible though - perhaps Herodotus or one of his sources really did stumble across a tribe of goat-fuckers, how quaint. What I can't stand is another generation of people who have no real interest in history thinking that movies like 300 have some educational value - and you can't tell me that these people don't exist because they fucking do, in their multitudes and I think it's the obligation of people who have the requisite influence to try to educate these people rather then mislead them - otherwise, we're just taking advantage everywhere we can and that's the only way to negotiate this life and that is the path of failure for our species imo. A major sticking point between me and Steve is that I retain hope for our species and he does not. To be perfectly honest, it is increasingly difficult to imagine that we have the remotest chance as a species because most of us have a love affair with blissful ignorance and bent belief systems. It's terribly disheartening but I cannot give up hope.

I agree, btw, about the absence of Vargo Hoat and the changing of Asha's name being offensive and I don't even like those books very much.

I blame stupid people. If it weren't for the vast multitudes of stupid people, everything would be of a higher quality because we would demand it - as it is we suffer under the tyranny of the unwashed.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

People are indeed stupid. But as 300: RISE OF AN EMPIRE taught me, there is always hope, and it usually lies in a pool of liquid gold set deep beneath a leper cave.

[Malaclypse]

oh my, that is firmly in the realm of the adolescent. Thanks for the warning.

[Malaclypse]

And what do you mean by this contribution? cat got your tongue?

Given the quality of your previous efforts, I suspect it's nothing but a poor attempt at mockery, which is disappointing. You're not really interested in answers, you just want to be popular, yes?

My visits are infrequent so fill your boots, little man

[amphibian]

Having just seen rhinos crashing through the underbrush in the forests of Nepal five weeks ago, I can tell you that battle rhinos are a very, very smart thing and probably did happen in the old world. Rhinos are fuckin' mean and they are scary when they start running at 30 mph (50-55 kmph). What's worse is that they're so low to the ground that if you armor their sides and give them cleats, they'd be a nightmare to actually stop, more so than elephants because you can get underneath an elephant with a spear or whatever.

My brother was accidentally 20 feet from a rhino with a search party for a lost Chinese iphone. Everybody in that search party silently turned, ran as hard as possible and only lost their marbles once out of the forest 10 minutes later.

[Morgoth]

Spoilsport Stonny, on 22 March 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

Well, Herodotus' version of it all is taken as gospel, but even he could have embellished what happened, and likely did, considering he was a toddler when it took place. Little of his colorful anecdotes are or were verifiable, and the Frank Miller and Zach Snyder stuff just takes those unverifiable legends and adds a bunch of truck driver speed and mescaline to it because our entertainment these days isn't so much a ball-in-a-cup as it is sensory overload.

I find things like changing Asha Greyjoy's name to Yara and a complete lack of Vargo Hoat much more offensive.

Herodotus, the father of lies, is not taken as gospel when it comes to anything. This is the same man who told of swarms of flying snakes being killed by flocks of Ibises in Senai every summer to prevent them from entering Egypt. He is the man who wrote that Darius I saved the Persian Empire from a shapeshifting Magus who was impersonating Cyrus' last living son. Herodotus included every wild rumour he could find and pronounced them fact.

So, no gospel.


Anyways. I finally got to watch The Master. It was fantastic. The camera work was exceptional, and Hoffman and Phoenix did some of the best acting I've seen since the bar scene in Team America.