[L'oric]

Illuyankas, on Jan 13 2009, 10:30 AM, said:

Pfft, Jesus only came back from the dead once.

ALL HAIL TOC THE YOUNGER

*Dassem Ultor is so awesome he can withstand fan boys of other characters. He would even let his fan boys be fans of truly exceptional characters like Toc the Younger! Even though he was just an archer...poor guy.

[HoosierDaddy]

L'oric, on Jan 13 2009, 12:43 PM, said:

Illuyankas, on Jan 13 2009, 10:30 AM, said:

Pfft, Jesus only came back from the dead once.

ALL HAIL TOC THE YOUNGER

*Dassem Ultor is so awesome he can withstand fan boys of other characters. He would even let his fan boys be fans of truly exceptional characters like Toc the Younger! Even though he was just an archer...poor guy.

An archer's whose arrows explode mages heads. At that point, I think his official title is sniper.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 13 January 2009 - 05:46 PM

[Seguleh 1st]

Thanks, Called-by-the-Voices, for the promised threat. you can be sure that i am on your side regarding dassem, and as it seems, my master, the mighty Abyss, is too.

[Jamber Bole]

HoosierDaddy, on Jan 13 2009, 06:42 PM, said:

Jesus got to keep both eyes, though Illy. I think.

Not much use when you can't come back the second time eh?

[Lisheo]

Down with Dassem!

1- Dassem didn't beat Rake. It'd be the same thing as Dassem killing a man who's holding a milliom ton weight and wants to die.
2- Dassem couldn't kill Icarium. No offence, but Cotillion could kill Dassem, he has been described as the most deadly man in the Malaz Empire, unlike Dassword Swordtor who basically killed people while being defended by his own personal army. And we all know that Icarium could fu' yo' shi' up.
3- Cus he's pissed at the God of Death? He can get in line with the Jaghut, the Eleint, and everybody else. Except unlike the Jaghut, he didn't win.
4- Cus Tiste likes his DEAD daughter, who we have NEVER seen, other than being a CORPSE in the Azath.
5- So he spent a few years in the Deadhouse as an antiaging treatment. So did Whiskeyjack, Duiker, Ameron, Surly, and the rest. Doesn't exactly make him special.
6-Hood could swat him like a fly, but he doesn't want him messing up the gaff trying to be cule with his swords.
7-If Skinner hadn't been busy gloating, he could have sworded Dassem up, we all know this. A throat wound doesn't kill an Avowed anyway. Tough luck if he has invincible armour as an advantage, Dassem had an advantage in which RAKE WANTED TO DIE.
8-Torvald Nom don't cry.
9-Karsa has no friends. Only people which he kills and people which he doesn't want to kill just yet.
10- Let's not brick around here, Whiskeyjack was a tactician. As was Duiker, and Coltaine. Dassword Swordtor, you must recall, while setting up the Malazan Empire, had several thousand undead soldiers to back him up if shit went whack.
"*whispers* ah, shit, we're losing* T'lan Imass!"
"Great job, FS!"
That doesnt count as being a military mind. That counts as using the God Mode cheat.
11-He is using the sword Rake made as a kid and thought later was a little shit so he swapped for something better.
12- Brys, the Segulah First, Rake, and quite possibly Icarium could all hand his ass to him on a plate. Im fairly sure Rhulad could have to. (Dassem would have been so busy crying he'd just have gotten more confused when he saw Rhulad come back frm the dead).
13- He's the Lord of Tragedy. And thus, always carries a copy of Romeo and Juliet and probably some Stephanie Meyer around with him, to fuel his desire to be a teenage girl.

Laster Lycaon Lisheo, stalwart supporter of Illuyankas, Lord of Comedy.

[Aptorian]

Lisheo, on Jan 13 2009, 11:14 PM, said:

1- Dassem didn't beat Rake. It'd be the same thing as Dassem killing a man who's holding a milliom ton weight and wants to die.

AAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 pedanticbearsa128554871703889336.jpg (67.7K)
Number of downloads: 5

[HoosierDaddy]

I can't believe that either! It has to weigh at least a billion tons. AT LEAST!

[Lisheo]

METAPHORICAL WEIGHT, PEOPLE! NOT PHYSICAL WEIGHT! GAH.

[HoosierDaddy]

By the way, Lish, what's a MILLIOM? Is that even bigger than a google?

Pedantic Bear is contagious, evidently.

[Aptorian]

Aptorian, on Jan 5 2009, 10:11 AM, said:

ARRHHH I don't get you people. I can not accept that the sword has the weight of all the stuff inside it. And I don't understand why you people jump to that conclusion. I'll try explaining why this is stupid one last time and then I'm just going to copy paste this every time somebody says the sword is "like totally heavy dude".

Let's look at what Dragnipur is carrying. At the end of the book there's a wagon the size of battlesip, loaded with the gate of darkness (is the sword also carrying all the weight of kurald galain then??!! HUH DURH TELL ME THAT!?) and probably - at least - thousands of bodies piled on top. Then there's thousands of creatures pulling that thing. Lets make it a nice round figure like ten thousand beings. Demons, dragons, soletaken, cyborgs and lots and lots of mortal bodies. You also have the warren of chaos chugging along in the background but I'll be willing to accept it doesn't weigh enything before it manifested an army. On top of this Hood arrived and with him the army of the dead, so that's some place between a hundred thousand and a million soldier corpses.
I'm going to make a rough estimate and say that Dragnipur, if your assumption that the sword carries the actual weight is true, carries something like a million tons. I'll even let you off easy and say the full weight is no more than a hundred thousand tons. HOW THE HELL IS THAT POSSIBLE?!!

If the sword was that heavy you have to explain a lot of things. First off, Rake is able to lift a hundred thousand tons now? What? That would mean that when Rake swings the sword he hits things, at something like the speed of sound, with the weight of supertanker. Even if you tried to block his swing you'd be sent into orbit by the weight behind it. BUT, not only that, the point of impact is an edge that is probably magically shapened into a molecular thin edge, when such an edge with a hundred thousand tons behind it hits something it isn't blocked, it just goes straight through... ANYTHING!!! If you place a hundred thousand tons condensed into a two meter sword, inside a granite slot edge down, it doesn't make the stone sweat, it just goes through the rock and then down through the earth a hundred meters or so probably or how ever deep Burn can take it. If you drop it on the ground, say inbedded in the skull of a dead andii, it doesn't just flop about. It would hit with the impact of an angry god. The impact would shatter all glass miles around. shake the city so that surrounding building crumbled and the square in which Rake fell would become a dent so big that you might as well just call it a crater.

IT IS METAPHYSICAL STRESS PEOPLE, NOT ACTUAL PHYSICAL WEIGHT!

That's why things groan around Rake, why the stone sweats (the magic or what ever is generating heat), why Rake is brought to his knee's when Hood enters the sword, etc. Hood doesn't weigh so much that Rake should even notice the added weight of a desicated Jaghut compared to the theoretical mass of everything in the sword. On the other hand Hood was an immensly powerfull jaghut and the god of death. The power of this ascendant is what brought Rake to his knee's. It intensified the burden of the sword because it added so much to the power already contained in the sword. You read what effect it had inside the blade when Hood and Rake arrived, people are knocked to their knee's, chaos retreats, etc. That is why Draconus wonders if Rake is crumbling under THE PRESSURE now that Hood entered. If it became to heavy Rake would just have to let go, no it's the burden of the tenfold power that Rake has to weather, and it's why after he recovers he's able to face Dassem, because he adjusts.

I REPEAT, IT IS METAPHYSICAL STRESS PEOPLE, NOT ACTUAL PHYSICAL WEIGHT!

[Lisheo]

Ill have you know its a million million. Or at least, it is now.

[Lisheo]

Apt, see above

[HoosierDaddy]

Proof that Dassem has nothing on Rake, his followers put a heart beside the topic name. You big old sissies!

Btw, I have no dog in this fight. I enjoy both, but Rake did let him win.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 13 January 2009 - 10:41 PM

[The Drum]

On reading this thread i've noticed a thing or two.

Firstly most of the people who don't like Dassem are Rake fanboys and are just jealous that intentional or not Daseem took him down big styley.

Secondly they don't like the fact that Daseem is in touch with his feelings and is not ashamed to shed a tear.

Let me just say that Das is not my fav character and neither was Rake, but i prefered Das over Rake. Rake was a BORE, what did he do for most of TtH, stand around looking at the sea being all sad like. All the major things he did in his time were passed on to the reader second hand, We don't witness him doing alot first hand, except the fight with the demon Pearl which was quite cool.

I truely believe that in skill of the sword, Das would have beaten Rake, but Rake was a more powerful being and had magic at his disposal which would have negated Das' superiority with the blade. The reason Das broke down after killing Rake was IMO cos he was so fixed on finally confronting Hood that he was unable to stop from crossing blades with Rake, he even says that he doesn't want to fight Rake, the tears etc may have been a side-affect of weilding Grief, why else is the sword named that way. Also he had just killed someone he respected!

Remember, Rake was the son of Mother Dark, Lord of the Tiste Andii, drinker of Tiam's blood etc etc.

Daseem was the son of Mr and Mrs Ultor, and rose by achievement to become the first sword of the malazan empire, he was patroned (sp?) by hood cos he was so good at killing, he looked after his soilders in battle and they loved him for it!!

Just my opinion but out of Rake and Daseem? Daseem hands down ever time.

*ducks and awaits backlash from Rake fanbouys*

[HoosierDaddy]

The Drum, on Jan 13 2009, 05:59 PM, said:

On reading this thread i've noticed a thing or two.

Firstly most of the people who don't like Dassem are Rake fanboys and are just jealous that intentional or not Daseem took him down big styley.

Secondly they don't like the fact that Daseem is in touch with his feelings and is not ashamed to shed a tear.

Let me just say that Das is not my fav character and neither was Rake, but i prefered Das over Rake. Rake was a BORE, what did he do for most of TtH, stand around looking at the sea being all sad like. All the major things he did in his time were passed on to the reader second hand, We don't witness him doing alot first hand, except the fight with the demon Pearl which was quite cool.

I truely believe that in skill of the sword, Das would have beaten Rake, but Rake was a more powerful being and had magic at his disposal which would have negated Das' superiority with the blade. The reason Das broke down after killing Rake was IMO cos he was so fixed on finally confronting Hood that he was unable to stop from crossing blades with Rake, he even says that he doesn't want to fight Rake, the tears etc may have been a side-affect of weilding Grief, why else is the sword named that way. Also he had just killed someone he respected!

Remember, Rake was the son of Mother Dark, Lord of the Tiste Andii, drinker of Tiam's blood etc etc.

Daseem was the son of Mr and Mrs Ultor, and rose by achievement to become the first sword of the malazan empire, he was patroned (sp?) by hood cos he was so good at killing, he looked after his soilders in battle and they loved him for it!!

Just my opinion but out of Rake and Daseem? Daseem hands down ever time.

*ducks and awaits backlash from Rake fanbouys*

You don't think it should matter that Rake let him win? You don't think that would detract from his "uber-awesomeness?" Seems to me that either your disdain for Rake or your preference of Dassem is coloring your opinion on who is the better swordsman.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 13 January 2009 - 11:03 PM

[Lisheo]

I'm not a Rake fanboy, I'm an Icarium and Silchas Ruin fanboy.

Secondly, Dassem has long been referred to as the First Sword Reborn. Let's face it, as far as the title goes, he's hardly making a name for himself as a Champion, going around with a small army of bodyguards and killing a few tribal Tiste Edur, who, as we have seen, can be killed by CHILDREN.

Andarist named the sword Grief, because it was what he constantly felt. Now there was a man who was in touch with his feelings. Instead of being pissy and going on a century long hissy fit, he gave up his powers and settled down to raise his brother's kids.

Baudin was also patroned by Hood, as was the Segulah Second.
Is it at all possible that Dassem was just dead? Baudin wasn't rotted through, after all. For all we know, Dassem could have been killed long before meeting Cot and Kelly, and Hood could have sent him back. We know nothing about his personal past.

[The Drum]

HoosierDaddy, on Jan 13 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

The Drum, on Jan 13 2009, 05:59 PM, said:

On reading this thread i've noticed a thing or two.

Firstly most of the people who don't like Dassem are Rake fanboys and are just jealous that intentional or not Daseem took him down big styley.

Secondly they don't like the fact that Daseem is in touch with his feelings and is not ashamed to shed a tear.

Let me just say that Das is not my fav character and neither was Rake, but i prefered Das over Rake. Rake was a BORE, what did he do for most of TtH, stand around looking at the sea being all sad like. All the major things he did in his time were passed on to the reader second hand, We don't witness him doing alot first hand, except the fight with the demon Pearl which was quite cool.

I truely believe that in skill of the sword, Das would have beaten Rake, but Rake was a more powerful being and had magic at his disposal which would have negated Das' superiority with the blade. The reason Das broke down after killing Rake was IMO cos he was so fixed on finally confronting Hood that he was unable to stop from crossing blades with Rake, he even says that he doesn't want to fight Rake, the tears etc may have been a side-affect of weilding Grief, why else is the sword named that way. Also he had just killed someone he respected!

Remember, Rake was the son of Mother Dark, Lord of the Tiste Andii, drinker of Tiam's blood etc etc.

Daseem was the son of Mr and Mrs Ultor, and rose by achievement to become the first sword of the malazan empire, he was patroned (sp?) by hood cos he was so good at killing, he looked after his soilders in battle and they loved him for it!!

Just my opinion but out of Rake and Daseem? Daseem hands down ever time.

*ducks and awaits backlash from Rake fanbouys*

You don't think it should matter that Rake let him win? You don't think that would detract from his "uber-awesomeness?" Seems to me that either your disdain for Rake or your preference of Dassem is coloring your opinion on who is the better swordsman.

Sure i admit Rake gave him the opportunity, it was part of his plan afetr all. but i still think that Das is the better swrdsman, does that mean that if it was to the death then he would have won, i'm not sure, Rake is more magically powerful, so the only person to answer that would be SE.

[Lisheo]

Both are Gods, and both have power enough to be considered Hood's equals. Therefore I don't think that magic comes into it. Dassem, as a God, presumably has some fancy warren powers that he's holding back.

[The Drum]

Lisheo, on Jan 13 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

Both are Gods, and both have power enough to be considered Hood's equals. Therefore I don't think that magic comes into it. Dassem, as a God, presumably has some fancy warren powers that he's holding back.

Has it been said the Daseem is a god? or is that an assumption? I thought he was an ascendant. If he is a god why couldn't he just assault Hoods realm surely he wants it bad enough that if he could he would have.
As far as i'm aware there aren't any cases of him using magic, he doesn't travel by warren,

[Corabb Bhilan Thenu'alas]

The Drum, on Jan 13 2009, 05:18 PM, said:

Lisheo, on Jan 13 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

Both are Gods, and both have power enough to be considered Hood's equals. Therefore I don't think that magic comes into it. Dassem, as a God, presumably has some fancy warren powers that he's holding back.

Has it been said the Daseem is a god? or is that an assumption? I thought he was an ascendant. If he is a god why couldn't he just assault Hoods realm surely he wants it bad enough that if he could he would have.
As far as i'm aware there aren't any cases of him using magic, he doesn't travel by warren,

Ascendants with worshippers are gods, or atleast become gods, no? Ala Treach, the Errant, T'riss. Ganath pretty much clued Paran into what would happen to him in tBH. Karsa already has priest in Letheras. Oh...I think there's a thread about this elsewhere. I'm flaming. Out.