[Lisheo]

He's a God. It's mentioned in one of the books that Rake is like him, a reluctant God. He also has personal power and worshippers, which in Wu, makes him a God- Dessembrae, the Lord of Tragedy.
And Hood is the God of Death. His warren has stood for millenia. When Trake ascended to become a God, it was mentioned that he wasn't close to as powerful as Fener, and in comparison, his warren was only "a paltry thing" suggesting that Godhood needs time to establish itself. I would suspect Dassem hasn't been a God long enough to take Hood on warren to warren, and even if he was, he would be taken out by the other Gods. Its mentioned in one of the Books that the Gods look after their own, if something threatens to shatter the balance.
And neither does Mael, mostly. But he's still an Elder God. We haven't actually seen much of Dassem outside of Karsa, Kyle and Samar Dev's perspectives. He has been doing a lot more besides being with them.

[HoosierDaddy]

RotCG spoiler:

Spoiler

Dessembrae also has priests and priestesses, i.e. (I think) Sorrow who was with the Edur ships.

[Andirak]

Quote

Sure i admit Rake gave him the opportunity, it was part of his plan afetr all. but i still think that Das is the better swrdsman, does that mean that if it was to the death then he would have won, i'm not sure, Rake is more magically powerful, so the only person to answer that would be SE.

The Drum, a question for you. How is it that Dassem, being the superior swordsman you think he is, didn't manage to make Rake budge even an inch back? Surely he could have managed that much? And remember, Dassem fought with killing Rake in mind, while the latter didn't want to kill Dassem.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Yes, Dassem is indeed awesome...

Andirak, if Dassem fought with killing Rake in mind, why did he cry when he was killed? Or was that because of something different?

[HoosierDaddy]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 13 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

Yes, Dassem is indeed awesome...

Andirak, if Dassem fought with killing Rake in mind, why did he cry when he was killed? Or was that because of something different?

He cried because he didn't want to kill him, but according to his equation, if A gets into way of B then A must be destroyed, where A is the interloper and B is his vengeance on Hood, he had strike Rake down. Plus, it didnt even turn out that he got past Rake, Hood had escaped again and Anomandaris Purake was dead as a result of Dassem's short-sightedness.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 14 January 2009 - 05:04 AM

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I don't think Rake was short-sighted...I think he entirely knew what he was doing.

[HoosierDaddy]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 14 2009, 12:02 AM, said:

I don't think Rake was short-sighted...I think he entirely knew what he was doing.

I was saying Dassem was short-sighted, not Rake... can see where you got that from, confusing language. Think'll fix it.

[Andirak]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 13 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

Yes, Dassem is indeed awesome...

Andirak, if Dassem fought with killing Rake in mind, why did he cry when he was killed? Or was that because of something different?

Like HoosierDaddy said, getting between Dassem and his obsession vengeance is the surest way to bring out the worst (or best) in him. So long as Rake was alive he could interfere, but dead...
No skilled swordsman would use that stance Rake used, not when your opponent is of Dassem's caliber. It would get you killed very fast. Which is what Rake was aiming at. Dassem was so blinded by his obsession vengeance he didn't even stop to wonder why Rake would use such a stupid move, and immediately went in for the kill. Obviously he realized he had been 'cheated' of a clean fight, and Karsa thinks that's what broke him, plus he respected Rake.

So a positive point for Dassem, he is so badass he can kill you and still be pissed off about it.

This post has been edited by Andirak: 14 January 2009 - 05:39 AM

[The Drum]

Andirak, on Jan 14 2009, 03:52 AM, said:

Quote

Sure i admit Rake gave him the opportunity, it was part of his plan afetr all. but i still think that Das is the better swrdsman, does that mean that if it was to the death then he would have won, i'm not sure, Rake is more magically powerful, so the only person to answer that would be SE.

The Drum, a question for you. How is it that Dassem, being the superior swordsman you think he is, didn't manage to make Rake budge even an inch back? Surely he could have managed that much? And remember, Dassem fought with killing Rake in mind, while the latter didn't want to kill Dassem.

IMO the first salvo between the two fighters was full on battle, if rake was leading Daseem on then he probably would have noticed, das being the master swordman he is! So the opening moves were no holds barred and neither fighter gave ground. Only in the break, do i think that Rake decided it was time to die and gave Das the opening he required. daseem was probably in full fight mode by then and was unable to stop himself taking the killer blow.

[The Deragoth]

The Drum, on Jan 14 2009, 11:11 AM, said:

Andirak, on Jan 14 2009, 03:52 AM, said:

Quote

Sure i admit Rake gave him the opportunity, it was part of his plan afetr all. but i still think that Das is the better swrdsman, does that mean that if it was to the death then he would have won, i'm not sure, Rake is more magically powerful, so the only person to answer that would be SE.

The Drum, a question for you. How is it that Dassem, being the superior swordsman you think he is, didn't manage to make Rake budge even an inch back? Surely he could have managed that much? And remember, Dassem fought with killing Rake in mind, while the latter didn't want to kill Dassem.

IMO the first salvo between the two fighters was full on battle, if rake was leading Daseem on then he probably would have noticed, das being the master swordman he is! So the opening moves were no holds barred and neither fighter gave ground. Only in the break, do i think that Rake decided it was time to die and gave Das the opening he required. daseem was probably in full fight mode by then and was unable to stop himself taking the killer blow.

You could be correct about the first clash, if nothing else the description of the battle from the point of view of everyone else present should at the very least indicate that Dassem, is not a chump. He's clearly not just another swordsman. While we may not have seen all that much of him in action, the opinions of others and that fact that he is a god should at least put him above the status of reasonably good soldier that some seem to have given him by some in this thread. If we want to put his power into perspective, Shadowthrone and Cotillion were quite clear about his at least being capable of killing them, although that doesn't mean they would have made it easy for him.

That said, there really was nothing legitimate about his victory over Rake. Everyone there knew it and that isn't even taking into account the burden that is Dragnipur. I also don't see where people get the notion that he is, while perhaps not more powerful, the better swordsman. Yes, he was the first sword of the malazan empire and he clearly is an impressive swordsman. The perspective of the demon in TTH also seems to indicate that he might even be more singular of focus than Rake. This of course, makes sense. Rake ultimately gives up the sword of singular purpose(grief/vengeance) to take on the comparatively broader and less personal responsibility of Dragnipur. All that aside though, why is it assumed that he has greater technical skills, because that's all he does? If we are to accept that Dassem Ultor/Traveller really is a new player(relatively) then Rake spent more time "pretending" to be a soldier than Dassem has even been alive. While Rake does have other abilities to rely on, it seems to me that 300,000+ years might have been enough time to learn a few things even the first sword of a human empire might not have mastered, even with an extended lifespan.

[L'oric]

Lisheo, on Jan 13 2009, 04:14 PM, said:

Down with Dassem!

1- Dassem didn't beat Rake. It'd be the same thing as Dassem killing a man who's holding a milliom ton weight and wants to die.
2- Dassem couldn't kill Icarium. No offence, but Cotillion could kill Dassem, he has been described as the most deadly man in the Malaz Empire, unlike Dassword Swordtor who basically killed people while being defended by his own personal army. And we all know that Icarium could fu' yo' shi' up.
3- Cus he's pissed at the God of Death? He can get in line with the Jaghut, the Eleint, and everybody else. Except unlike the Jaghut, he didn't win.
4- Cus Tiste likes his DEAD daughter, who we have NEVER seen, other than being a CORPSE in the Azath.
5- So he spent a few years in the Deadhouse as an antiaging treatment. So did Whiskeyjack, Duiker, Ameron, Surly, and the rest. Doesn't exactly make him special.
6-Hood could swat him like a fly, but he doesn't want him messing up the gaff trying to be cule with his swords.
7-If Skinner hadn't been busy gloating, he could have sworded Dassem up, we all know this. A throat wound doesn't kill an Avowed anyway. Tough luck if he has invincible armour as an advantage, Dassem had an advantage in which RAKE WANTED TO DIE.
8-Torvald Nom don't cry.
9-Karsa has no friends. Only people which he kills and people which he doesn't want to kill just yet.
10- Let's not brick around here, Whiskeyjack was a tactician. As was Duiker, and Coltaine. Dassword Swordtor, you must recall, while setting up the Malazan Empire, had several thousand undead soldiers to back him up if shit went whack.
"*whispers* ah, shit, we're losing* T'lan Imass!"
"Great job, FS!"
That doesnt count as being a military mind. That counts as using the God Mode cheat.
11-He is using the sword Rake made as a kid and thought later was a little shit so he swapped for something better.
12- Brys, the Segulah First, Rake, and quite possibly Icarium could all hand his ass to him on a plate. Im fairly sure Rhulad could have to. (Dassem would have been so busy crying he'd just have gotten more confused when he saw Rhulad come back frm the dead).
13- He's the Lord of Tragedy. And thus, always carries a copy of Romeo and Juliet and probably some Stephanie Meyer around with him, to fuel his desire to be a teenage girl.

Laster Lycaon Lisheo, stalwart supporter of Illuyankas, Lord of Comedy.

I almost managed not to quote this one and try my hand at rebuttal, but I failed.

1. See apts post about the weight being metaphysical. Nothing was different in Draginipur as it was weilded during the duel. Rake just wanted to get inside it as well.
2. Icarium, Cotillion, and Shadowthrone are all convinced that Dassem could infact kill them. I will take the characters viewpoint on this one. Unless SE had his characters lie to each other just to confuse the reader...which would make me think less of SE.
3. Hood is Jaghiut and they are not mad at him. They were mad at the previous death whom they conquered and became immortal because of. Much of their race was killed in the process. Hood is obviously patient and tolerant of deserters because he sure never tries to kill dassem outright. Maybe he feels some responsibility for his own servants betrayal?
4. No comment.
5. Makes him special enough to survive a chaining of the crippled god.
6. See above. #3
7. Skinner with Cowls help still ran like a little girl. Every avowed that ever faced Dassem died. He knew it and was just trying to get away before Dassem could yell "NEXT!"
8. As I have said before Dassem is so great he doesn't care how great everyone else is.
9. See Above #9. I will point out that Dassem also seems to have very few true friends. Temper and the other come to mind. Ferrule?
10. The T'lan Imass were hardly ever used during Dassem's time. They took over one fort from Prince K'azz? Or Untan at the beginning and then Surly used them next.
11. He is using Rake's sword which he gave to his brother to guard the true Throne of Shadow. Dragnipur could not break Grief.
12. Once focused on a goal with Grief in hand..or even without I do not think Dassem has an equal in a swordfight. Every Malaz character so far has said so.
13. Romeo and Juliet one of the greatest plays ever written by the greatest writer of the English language ever...I guess it would be appropriate for the greatest swordsmen to carry it around then. Seeing as it has a sword duel in it where the character inadvertenly kills another. Good pick!

Sincerely,
L'oric

[Lisheo]

L'oric, on Jan 14 2009, 03:59 PM, said:

Lisheo, on Jan 13 2009, 04:14 PM, said:

Down with Dassem!

1- Dassem didn't beat Rake. It'd be the same thing as Dassem killing a man who's holding a milliom ton weight and wants to die.
2- Dassem couldn't kill Icarium. No offence, but Cotillion could kill Dassem, he has been described as the most deadly man in the Malaz Empire, unlike Dassword Swordtor who basically killed people while being defended by his own personal army. And we all know that Icarium could fu' yo' shi' up.
3- Cus he's pissed at the God of Death? He can get in line with the Jaghut, the Eleint, and everybody else. Except unlike the Jaghut, he didn't win.
4- Cus Tiste likes his DEAD daughter, who we have NEVER seen, other than being a CORPSE in the Azath.
5- So he spent a few years in the Deadhouse as an antiaging treatment. So did Whiskeyjack, Duiker, Ameron, Surly, and the rest. Doesn't exactly make him special.
6-Hood could swat him like a fly, but he doesn't want him messing up the gaff trying to be cule with his swords.
7-If Skinner hadn't been busy gloating, he could have sworded Dassem up, we all know this. A throat wound doesn't kill an Avowed anyway. Tough luck if he has invincible armour as an advantage, Dassem had an advantage in which RAKE WANTED TO DIE.
8-Torvald Nom don't cry.
9-Karsa has no friends. Only people which he kills and people which he doesn't want to kill just yet.
10- Let's not brick around here, Whiskeyjack was a tactician. As was Duiker, and Coltaine. Dassword Swordtor, you must recall, while setting up the Malazan Empire, had several thousand undead soldiers to back him up if shit went whack.
"*whispers* ah, shit, we're losing* T'lan Imass!"
"Great job, FS!"
That doesnt count as being a military mind. That counts as using the God Mode cheat.
11-He is using the sword Rake made as a kid and thought later was a little shit so he swapped for something better.
12- Brys, the Segulah First, Rake, and quite possibly Icarium could all hand his ass to him on a plate. Im fairly sure Rhulad could have to. (Dassem would have been so busy crying he'd just have gotten more confused when he saw Rhulad come back frm the dead).
13- He's the Lord of Tragedy. And thus, always carries a copy of Romeo and Juliet and probably some Stephanie Meyer around with him, to fuel his desire to be a teenage girl.

Laster Lycaon Lisheo, stalwart supporter of Illuyankas, Lord of Comedy.

I almost managed not to quote this one and try my hand at rebuttal, but I failed.

1. See apts post about the weight being metaphysical. Nothing was different in Draginipur as it was weilded during the duel. Rake just wanted to get inside it as well.
2. Icarium, Cotillion, and Shadowthrone are all convinced that Dassem could infact kill them. I will take the characters viewpoint on this one. Unless SE had his characters lie to each other just to confuse the reader...which would make me think less of SE.
3. Hood is Jaghiut and they are not mad at him. They were mad at the previous death whom they conquered and became immortal because of. Much of their race was killed in the process. Hood is obviously patient and tolerant of deserters because he sure never tries to kill dassem outright. Maybe he feels some responsibility for his own servants betrayal?
4. No comment.
5. Makes him special enough to survive a chaining of the crippled god.
6. See above. #3
7. Skinner with Cowls help still ran like a little girl. Every avowed that ever faced Dassem died. He knew it and was just trying to get away before Dassem could yell "NEXT!"
8. As I have said before Dassem is so great he doesn't care how great everyone else is.
9. See Above #9. I will point out that Dassem also seems to have very few true friends. Temper and the other come to mind. Ferrule?
10. The T'lan Imass were hardly ever used during Dassem's time. They took over one fort from Prince K'azz? Or Untan at the beginning and then Surly used them next.
11. He is using Rake's sword which he gave to his brother to guard the true Throne of Shadow. Dragnipur could not break Grief.
12. Once focused on a goal with Grief in hand..or even without I do not think Dassem has an equal in a swordfight. Every Malaz character so far has said so.
13. Romeo and Juliet one of the greatest plays ever written by the greatest writer of the English language ever...I guess it would be appropriate for the greatest swordsmen to carry it around then. Seeing as it has a sword duel in it where the character inadvertenly kills another. Good pick!

Sincerely,
L'oric

1- Gah, I already said it was an imperfect comparison
2- Icarium doesn't realise he has destroyed civilizations, bear in mind. He only knows how well he can fight without reaching the threshold. So, yeah, Dassem could kill calm Iccy, possibly.
3- Death is death, regardless of what face it wears. The only difference is the Jaghut kicked the ass of the previous death,or at least enough to crown a new one, but Dassword seems to be finding it rather hard even without the armies of the dead being thrown at him.
4- Yeah, best not.
5- The only people who've died at the Chainings are Fener's Mortal Sword (or Destriant/SA, quote-fu is weak today) and Dassem's daughter.
6- Hood was the King of the Ice Hold, and he has Hood's Path at his command, too. Presumably, he could blast Dassem into next week from miles away, but he doesn't, because to allow Dassem into the realm of death would basically be giving the guy a free ticket to smash everything he can see in his blind quest for Hood himself.
7- We all know Skinner and Cowl together at that last fight could have beaten Dassem into a pulpy, swordy mess,if his bodyguards hadn't shown up.
8- *cough* Fanboy *cough*
9- Dassem doesn't have friends because they can't stick his whining.
10- Because using your basically invincible undead army to beat the crap out of your enemy and demoralise everyone else three or four times isn't cheating at all.
11- Dragnipur could turn Grief into a fine paste. Had Rake wanted to break it and beat Dassem. We've already established that there's no weapon, other than Burn's Hammer, nastier than Dragnipur.
12- Dassem has never done anything like Brys has. The First is presumably an Ascendant, and I reckon as such he would destroy Dassem, having years of experience on him. Same can be said for Rake.
13- That much is true, it is the play much favoured by emos and lovers of the English language.
Dassem doesn't strike me as much of a reader, so...

[Hinter]

Lisheo, on Jan 14 2009, 04:27 PM, said:

8- *cough* Fanboy *cough*
9- Dassem doesn't have friends because they can't stick his whining.
13- That much is true, it is the play much favoured by emos and lovers of the English language.
Dassem doesn't strike me as much of a reader, so...

ROFL

Now, I'm not a Rake or Dassem fanboy, so I feel that my opinion, and it is only an opinion, is that a chap who can choreograph a fight with a swordsman as good as Dassem and make him do exactly what he wants (the why of this is the subject of other, very long, threads so I'll leave that alone), probably has more skill with the sword.

Finally, I reckon Hellian could drink both of them under the table, so she gets my vote

[L'oric]

Quote

2- Icarium doesn't realise he has destroyed civilizations, bear in mind. He only knows how well he can fight without reaching the threshold. So, yeah, Dassem could kill calm Iccy, possibly.
3- Death is death, regardless of what face it wears. The only difference is the Jaghut kicked the ass of the previous death,or at least enough to crown a new one, but Dassword seems to be finding it rather hard even without the armies of the dead being thrown at him.
5- The only people who've died at the Chainings are Fener's Mortal Sword (or Destriant/SA, quote-fu is weak today) and Dassem's daughter.
6- Hood was the King of the Ice Hold, and he has Hood's Path at his command, too. Presumably, he could blast Dassem into next week from miles away, but he doesn't, because to allow Dassem into the realm of death would basically be giving the guy a free ticket to smash everything he can see in his blind quest for Hood himself.
7- We all know Skinner and Cowl together at that last fight could have beaten Dassem into a pulpy, swordy mess,if his bodyguards hadn't shown up.
9- Dassem doesn't have friends because they can't stick his whining.
10- Because using your basically invincible undead army to beat the crap out of your enemy and demoralise everyone else three or four times isn't cheating at all.
11- Dragnipur could turn Grief into a fine paste. Had Rake wanted to break it and beat Dassem. We've already established that there's no weapon, other than Burn's Hammer, nastier than Dragnipur.
12- Dassem has never done anything like Brys has. The First is presumably an Ascendant, and I reckon as such he would destroy Dassem, having years of experience on him. Same can be said for Rake.

Ok since the others are superfluous I will arbitrarily narrow it down to these.
2. I have to have my money on Dassem on this. There is no evidence to tell me that anyone has been as good as he was other than Rake. Whereas people have stood up to Iccy....they have died...but they have stood up to him.
3. With every other god delaying him and his own natural proclivity to help out when needed...he is like the Hulk TV series...I can hear the sad sappy Emo music and everything as he walks around...awesome!
5.The only people we know of to die are....and those two are significant characters IMO
6. agreed...Hood being an Enigma to us until we at least see what his deal with Paran was/is.
7. "we" do not know anything. His hand is always around him to protect him from secondary, tertiary etc attacks. I see nothing wrong with the battle scenes from NoK. He was conveyed to the duel. In a world as realistic and as harsh as SE sometimes portrays the act of going straight for the enemy commander is not a cakewalk for anyone. It seemed like he did as much during the battle to get him there as his hand did.
9- Well if not having friends is a bonus for Karsa, Cot, and ST why isn't it for Dassem?
10. Once grows to three or four...I think its safe to say that everyone who fought against teh empire feared Dassem...and feared the T'lan Imass for different reasons. Dassem was your doom...the Imass were your unknown doom.
11. I have never agreed that Dragnipur could make Grief into a paste. Show me.
12. Dassem has elcipsed Brys in all ways expect it being champion of the empty hold (but since he has bested every championed fighter before that there is nothign to say that brys wouldnt just be the next on the list)...if Fiddler knows what a Seguleh is then Dassem surely has run across a few. If the Seguleh second is the knight of hood that hood picked after having Dassem then Dassem is better than the second. Why? Because you would not pick a tool as KNight that was second best at hand. The seguleh second was the best at hand after Dassem renounced.

Character Fanboy
L'oric

[Lisheo]

L'oric, on Jan 14 2009, 05:20 PM, said:

Quote

2- Icarium doesn't realise he has destroyed civilizations, bear in mind. He only knows how well he can fight without reaching the threshold. So, yeah, Dassem could kill calm Iccy, possibly.
3- Death is death, regardless of what face it wears. The only difference is the Jaghut kicked the ass of the previous death,or at least enough to crown a new one, but Dassword seems to be finding it rather hard even without the armies of the dead being thrown at him.
5- The only people who've died at the Chainings are Fener's Mortal Sword (or Destriant/SA, quote-fu is weak today) and Dassem's daughter.
6- Hood was the King of the Ice Hold, and he has Hood's Path at his command, too. Presumably, he could blast Dassem into next week from miles away, but he doesn't, because to allow Dassem into the realm of death would basically be giving the guy a free ticket to smash everything he can see in his blind quest for Hood himself.
7- We all know Skinner and Cowl together at that last fight could have beaten Dassem into a pulpy, swordy mess,if his bodyguards hadn't shown up.
9- Dassem doesn't have friends because they can't stick his whining.
10- Because using your basically invincible undead army to beat the crap out of your enemy and demoralise everyone else three or four times isn't cheating at all.
11- Dragnipur could turn Grief into a fine paste. Had Rake wanted to break it and beat Dassem. We've already established that there's no weapon, other than Burn's Hammer, nastier than Dragnipur.
12- Dassem has never done anything like Brys has. The First is presumably an Ascendant, and I reckon as such he would destroy Dassem, having years of experience on him. Same can be said for Rake.

Ok since the others are superfluous I will arbitrarily narrow it down to these.
2. I have to have my money on Dassem on this. There is no evidence to tell me that anyone has been as good as he was other than Rake. Whereas people have stood up to Iccy....they have died...but they have stood up to him.
3. With every other god delaying him and his own natural proclivity to help out when needed...he is like the Hulk TV series...I can hear the sad sappy Emo music and everything as he walks around...awesome!
5.The only people we know of to die are....and those two are significant characters IMO
6. agreed...Hood being an Enigma to us until we at least see what his deal with Paran was/is.
7. "we" do not know anything. His hand is always around him to protect him from secondary, tertiary etc attacks. I see nothing wrong with the battle scenes from NoK. He was conveyed to the duel. In a world as realistic and as harsh as SE sometimes portrays the act of going straight for the enemy commander is not a cakewalk for anyone. It seemed like he did as much during the battle to get him there as his hand did.
9- Well if not having friends is a bonus for Karsa, Cot, and ST why isn't it for Dassem?
10. Once grows to three or four...I think its safe to say that everyone who fought against teh empire feared Dassem...and feared the T'lan Imass for different reasons. Dassem was your doom...the Imass were your unknown doom.
11. I have never agreed that Dragnipur could make Grief into a paste. Show me.
12. Dassem has elcipsed Brys in all ways expect it being champion of the empty hold (but since he has bested every championed fighter before that there is nothign to say that brys wouldnt just be the next on the list)...if Fiddler knows what a Seguleh is then Dassem surely has run across a few. If the Seguleh second is the knight of hood that hood picked after having Dassem then Dassem is better than the second. Why? Because you would not pick a tool as KNight that was second best at hand. The seguleh second was the best at hand after Dassem renounced.

Character Fanboy
L'oric

2- So essentially, Dassem will wave his sword around, say some insulting things about Iccy's mother, and get trashed like everyone else? Glad we agree.
3- Dassem just can't cut it against anyone decent, though, esp Hood
5- Well, everyone else we KNOW to have attended the Chainings has survived, so I would suspect the mortality rate is somewhat low.
7- Skinner could have won, if it weren't for the Sword, who protect Dassem while he attacks.
9-Because they're cool.
10- Because Grief is, as has been suggested elsewhere, a lesser sword. And either way, it's all moot now. Hood's no longer the King of Death, Dassem has no reason to kill him except to satisfy his own ego, thus his strength of mind is gone.
12- The Segulah second was the Soldier, originally. Baudin was the Knight who replaced Dassem. Then Hood decided to promote/demote. Also, Dassem renounced quite a while ago. It's possible that the Segulah hadn't joined Hood then, or even attracted his notice.

[L'oric]

Quote

5- Well, everyone else we KNOW to have attended the Chainings has survived, so I would suspect the mortality rate is somewhat low.
7- Skinner could have won, if it weren't for the Sword, who protect Dassem while he attacks.
9-Because they're cool.
10- Because Grief is, as has been suggested elsewhere, a lesser sword. And either way, it's all moot now. Hood's no longer the King of Death, Dassem has no reason to kill him except to satisfy his own ego, thus his strength of mind is gone.
12- The Segulah second was the Soldier, originally. Baudin was the Knight who replaced Dassem. Then Hood decided to promote/demote. Also, Dassem renounced quite a while ago. It's possible that the Segulah hadn't joined Hood then, or even attracted his notice.

5-or somewhat high and we do not know them because they are dead? RAFO I guess.
7. It seemed to me that they protect him from everything other than the duel...agree to disagree.
9. Almost made me laugh but as a true fanboy I controlled myself. If only you could have insulted more I would be crying and deploring you.
10. Agreed moot now since Dragnipur is no more..hahahahah.
12. My take on this is timeline skewed I think. Dassem did not finally renounce Hood until Surly's gambit to kill him in Seven Cities. Either that or he was killing championed fighters without himself having any patronage. (that just boosts my fanboy image of him) Baudin was knight after Dassem and was clearly not as good so the seguleh second was elevated to soldier...now between soldier and knight I would think knight to be the better, but I would think that the second was better than baudin. Or maybe soldier leads the army and knight is the champion. Either way the seguleh second has been missing for quite sometime as of MOI...I do not know if quite some time is before Dassem leaves hood or not. Too many holes. As of right now I am going with they were both available to Hood and Hood chose Dassem over the second or created the soldier position for the second because he already had Dassem.

L'oric
ps I am getting worse and worse at this quoting business

[Dancer+]

Lisheo stop semi-derailing the thread, the thread is not named "Is Dassem Ultor awesome?" which is beyond question anyhow. It is "The Dassem Ultor is Awesome thread". Adhere to the code or continue to be school'd by L'oric, it's your choice.

Dancer, let's face it it was either this or me personally cut your arguments into slivers.

[Aptorian]

To quote a famous barbarian.

"Too many words"

It's impossible for me to read through line after line of quote and requote.

I'll settle for the fact that the guy ate the heart of bear!

[Mcflury]

Abyss, on Jan 13 2009, 05:40 PM, said:

Mcflury, on Jan 13 2009, 10:36 AM, said:

...
He's not mortal... he can't die (Hood won't let him). So that's why he's so old and still in perfect shape.

Not exactly. He WAS Hood's Knight, and therefore was invested with a portion of Hood's power. Along the way, he also drew his own worship to the point that he ascended beyond 'just' being the Knight of HHDeath and became a god in his own right.

In Temper's flashback in NoK, where Temper tries to stab Dassem which provokes a near instant recovery and much Claw-ass-kicking, what i think we're seeing is Dassem's own refusal to give in to Death/Hood kicking in.

He's in perfect shape because he's an ascendent and a god and works out and eats right

Ah, I kinda thought that was because Hood didn't want him no longer... yes, I guess your theory actually does make more sense... sweet. Yet another hazy theory of mine obliterated, replaced by a golden light

And Dassem is awesome because stabbing him through the chest will help him get out of coma!

[Seguleh 1st]

well people i think that some of you do not grasp what this thread is about. you can say things about how awful dassem is in here or utter modest criticism. but be honest, no one went to the Anomander Rake thread and did nothing but seek reasons to denunciate rake. so i would like you not to do that either. this is about personal opinions and not about facts, some people like dassem better and some like rake better, so please respect that.