[Aptorian]

Jumpy, on Apr 4 2009, 12:19 AM, said:

Aptorian, on Apr 3 2009, 12:43 PM, said:

Edur, Andii and Lison are 7 feet tall, so are Jaghut. Can't remember FA's height but I think they are between 7 and 9 feet tall.

I was one of the people constantly bringing up the Karsa height question, we had half a dozen threads on the subject and they all claimed that he was somewhat taller than 7 feet. He's around 8 feet but not 9 feet.

Personally, this really annoys me as many of his feats, especially the early ones in HOC just doesn't make sense, no matter how dense his bodymass is and whether he has a warren or not. He and his horse can jump a city wall, he's heavy/strong enough to knock down a city gate/tower, he can run through masonry, he can wrestle the Deragoth, etc.

He's called a giant for christs sake! I want him to be between 9 and 12 feet at least, but apparently that's not Eriksons idea of the Teblor people.

Lets begin debatting Ereko's size next

No matter what SE says about this issue, I imagine Karsa to be at least 12 feet tall. His shoulders are about 5 feet wide, I'd say. Maybe more, but I feel like Bairoth's shoulders were probably as big as an average sized human (5'9" or so, if Bairoth was about 10 - 11 ft, since he is shorter than Karsa. Delum I'd give 12' 3/4" to 13 feet tall, but narrower than both, but not much less than Karsa.

I'd say Ereko was taller than Karsa, but not by too much. Maybe on par with Delum, who was tall for a Teblor. Maybe closer to 13 feet than Delum Thord is.

How tall did SE describe Calm/Serenity from HoC? I am thinking he was a little vague on it, during her description. And, are those the only two Assail we've seen so far?

My, how this thread has changed directions, lol.

Who thinks we'll be introduced to another badass Swordslinger in the next few? Finally met Blues and Skinner, we've got Brys on his way back. Possibly Trull(rumor started by me). We had Rell for only a small amount of time, which is depressing. And all the other badasses we've seen. The 2nd, Mok, Tool, so on and so forth.

Did anyone else think Gruntle was a badass with his double cutlass action? I dont remember anyone walking away from a confrontation with him. Even before he became Trake's Mortal Sword.

I like how you just ignore what Erikson states

Karsa is about 8 feet tall and according to Dassem, Ereko was much taller than Karsa, so Ereko was probably 9 to 10 feet tall. But Ereko was from a whole different race that came before even the TTTs. So you can't really make many comparisons.

[Jumpy]

Aptorian, on Apr 4 2009, 03:58 AM, said:

Jumpy, on Apr 4 2009, 12:19 AM, said:

Aptorian, on Apr 3 2009, 12:43 PM, said:

Edur, Andii and Lison are 7 feet tall, so are Jaghut. Can't remember FA's height but I think they are between 7 and 9 feet tall.

I was one of the people constantly bringing up the Karsa height question, we had half a dozen threads on the subject and they all claimed that he was somewhat taller than 7 feet. He's around 8 feet but not 9 feet.

Personally, this really annoys me as many of his feats, especially the early ones in HOC just doesn't make sense, no matter how dense his bodymass is and whether he has a warren or not. He and his horse can jump a city wall, he's heavy/strong enough to knock down a city gate/tower, he can run through masonry, he can wrestle the Deragoth, etc.

He's called a giant for christs sake! I want him to be between 9 and 12 feet at least, but apparently that's not Eriksons idea of the Teblor people.

Lets begin debatting Ereko's size next

No matter what SE says about this issue, I imagine Karsa to be at least 12 feet tall. His shoulders are about 5 feet wide, I'd say. Maybe more, but I feel like Bairoth's shoulders were probably as big as an average sized human (5'9" or so, if Bairoth was about 10 - 11 ft, since he is shorter than Karsa. Delum I'd give 12' 3/4" to 13 feet tall, but narrower than both, but not much less than Karsa.

I'd say Ereko was taller than Karsa, but not by too much. Maybe on par with Delum, who was tall for a Teblor. Maybe closer to 13 feet than Delum Thord is.

How tall did SE describe Calm/Serenity from HoC? I am thinking he was a little vague on it, during her description. And, are those the only two Assail we've seen so far?

My, how this thread has changed directions, lol.

Who thinks we'll be introduced to another badass Swordslinger in the next few? Finally met Blues and Skinner, we've got Brys on his way back. Possibly Trull(rumor started by me). We had Rell for only a small amount of time, which is depressing. And all the other badasses we've seen. The 2nd, Mok, Tool, so on and so forth.

Did anyone else think Gruntle was a badass with his double cutlass action? I dont remember anyone walking away from a confrontation with him. Even before he became Trake's Mortal Sword.

I like how you just ignore what Erikson states

Karsa is about 8 feet tall and according to Dassem, Ereko was much taller than Karsa, so Ereko was probably 9 to 10 feet tall. But Ereko was from a whole different race that came before even the TTTs. So you can't really make many comparisons.

Hah, well, what does he know? He only co-created this universe when he was a pimply faced teenager playing AD&D in his mom's basement.
Wish I had had a good Dungeon Master. :/

Still, the way I imagine Karsa Orlong, he is able to achieve the feats described in the books. But at 8ft tall? Hardly seems possible, but then again it is the MBotF.
I have a problem with 8ft because I can jump and grab a ten ft high basketball hoop, you know? I shouldn't be able to touch Karsa's face. >

[Andirak]

Somehow I never got the impression that Andii, Liosan and Edur are 7 feet tall (Jaghut, yes. I pegged the Tiste at about 6.6' or 6.7'. Crokus, while being chased in Daruj., estimates one of his hunter at 6.6', and I think that's where I got the impression. Most likely it was a woman, or he was a short one).

A 7-foot person is a giant, but I guess 8 (or more) for Karsa does answer a question of mine I had for a long time: him calling humans children.

I blame SE for not detailing his descriptions. In his book a 6-footer is tall, but so is a 7-footer. The latter should at the very least be 'very tall'.

So Karsa's sword is nearly 8 feet long. Why the hell do people even bother fighting with him? How to compensate for the difference in the strength of their blows? Most men probably would crumble under just one swing. But Ascendants like Rake, Icarium, Osserc (who are also huge to begin with) and Dassem should be able to handle Karsa's swings very well.

And for him to be that fast with his height and mass, well, my opinion of him has changed.

This post has been edited by Andirak: 05 April 2009 - 09:50 AM

[Onos]

Instead of calling Ericson a liar about how tall Karsa is, i simply changed how tall that first town he invaded was. It is way up north so i view that first town as degenerate humans who are only 4.5 feet tall and didnt know how to build proper defenses. Otherwise i cant bring myself to reconcile everything Karsa does...

People cant live with Cognitive Dissonance.

[RangerSG]

I figured that the wall was more a wood stockade type wall anyway, so the horse jumping it (if they found a place where there was a rise near the wall) was believable to me because there wasn't a lot of depth to the wall. And I always figured Karsa in the 8' range. The Jag horse is probably that high as well. That's a lot of power at a full gallop.

[Aptorian]

It had a gate built out of masonry, so I doubt they chose to build the rest of it with wood palisades. It was a fairly large Malazan controlled seaport with its own Malazan garrison.

[RangerSG]

Aptorian, on Apr 6 2009, 01:27 PM, said:

It had a gate built out of masonry, so I doubt they chose to build the rest of it with wood palisades. It was a fairly large Malazan controlled seaport with its own Malazan garrison.

Well, a stone wall took a long time to set up. And the gate was typically the first or last item in the wall. Could be the first. (desperately grasping at a straw )

[tiam]

Aptorian, on Apr 6 2009, 07:27 PM, said:

It had a gate built out of masonry, so I doubt they chose to build the rest of it with wood palisades. It was a fairly large Malazan controlled seaport with its own Malazan garrison.

I dont think it actually had a malazan garrison. In HOC it says that Karsas raid coincided with the arrival of the malazan garrison so it seems that a malazan garrison possibly situated at a city near there would do the rounds around all the towns.

[Magus Iskaral]

Late post, but I think Reccanto Ilk's diving lunge to kill one of the three cursed daughters in the wrecker tavern is by far the most skillful swordplay yet seen in the series.

Therefore Reccanto >> all.

[The Crow]

While he's not a swordsman, why you have placed Trull that far down on the list is beyond me. I'd say he's one of the most powerful fighters throughout all the books. I mean, he held his own against Icarium while said monstrosity was ENRAGED. Tell me anyone else who's managed that so far.
And I don't agree with the opinion that he's weaker than Silchas, except possibly if you count Silchas's magic power.
After all, the only reason why he was wounded by Silchas during their fight was because his spear was crush to bits and pieces. The moment he got hold of the Imass spear, he slapped Silchas down on the floor so hard his head said crunch. He'd probably have killed Silchas right there, if Clip hadn't interrupted him. Not that it did Clip any good, so much for looking down on spear wielders.

[dktorode]

THE MAN IN BLACK

[Blacksox]

Top fighters so far based completely on displayed martial skill for me. I am leaving Icarium out as I am not sure how to rate him.

1. Rake

2. Dassem

3. Karsa

4. Bryce

5. Mok

6. Silchas Ruin

7. Trull

8. Tool

9. Kallor

10. Rell

11. Iron Bars

12. Blues

13. Spinnoc

14. Skinner

15. Greymane

[Aptorian]

Strange that you would put Skinner and Blues below Iron Bars when Iron Bars himself states that those two are better fighters than he is.

Greymane should probably also be above Skinner as he scored plenty of hit in their duel, only the armor saved Skinners hide again.

[Blacksox]

Aptorian, on Jul 26 2009, 03:02 PM, said:

Strange that you would put Skinner and Blues below Iron Bars when Iron Bars himself states that those two are better fighters than he is.

Greymane should probably also be above Skinner as he scored plenty of hit in their duel, only the armor saved Skinners hide again.

I agree Skinner looked like crap in his two big fights. If not for that armor Dassem would have mowed him down as he was scoring hits all over that armor. He also cheated by poisoning his sword against Greymane. I don't think we have seen the full limit of Greymanes skill. Yet he still lot to Skinner. Skinner may have been fighting over aggressive and sloppy because he new the armor would save him though. He might be a lot more sound than he showed.

Iron Bars is better than he gives himself credit for. He just seemed a little more impressive than Skinner relying so heavily on his armor and poisoned sword.

I feel like all the guys 10-15 or so are very close and could go eigther way as we learn more about them.

The reason I rank Skinner so low is because of all the hits he takes and all the gimmicks he uses to stay alive.

Honestly Blues impresses me more than any other CG

This post has been edited by Blacksox: 26 July 2009 - 03:18 PM

[Euler]

ok!

I will add these into categories, since for example I belive there are several characters who are equally good, its more luck, fuckup that makes one or the other win, also some clearly have advantage over other chars, considering they are gods/ascendats etc...

anyway here goes:

Category 1: ( these are the best of the best sofar, I am not adding Draconus, Osserc etc, cause we havnt seen those fight yet, though I think they would fit into category 1 )

Dassem ( have not seen anyone close to beating him sofar in the books )

Rake ( could hold an even footing with Dassem )

Seguleh 1, 2, 3 ( have not seem 1 yet or 2 fight with swords yet but they should be equal/ better then mok )

Brys ( made short work of undying emperor, slicing him up better then most surgeons )


Category 2: ( awesome swordsmen but not unbeatable like the guys above, ALOT of swordsmen/fighters in the book could be placed in this category, ill give a few )

Greymane ( he seemed evenly matched against skinner, seems to use more power then finesse )

Skinner ( same as above )

Iron Bars ( seems more like a fist fighter, doubt anyone could take him hand to hand )

Onos

Blues ( could be higher I guess but have not seem him in a "real fight"

Shimmer ( killing 7? or was it 10 claw without takeing a single hit at the same time, though was not useing a true sword )

Kallor ( I add him here, though I dont think he is very skilled, he only win cause he seems impossible to kill . for example he would have lost against whiskeyjack if he hadnt had his leg fall off, also dassem bested him in 2 parrys and would have killed him if it wasnt for the crippled god. Also that dujek mentions that whiskeyjack and dassem used to spar and it took awhile for dassem to break his guard, it took 2-3 seconds to break kallors)

then we have people like Andarist, silchas ruin, whiskeyjack, spinnock, gruntle, rell, 1000 seguleh etc etc... all of whom would probably fit in category 2

Category 3: ( These would be the above average swordsmen in the malazan world)

for example:

The adjunct ( cant remember her name ) in Gardens of the moon
murillio and those duellers in darujihastan etc etc etc....

[Euler]

Blacksox, on Jul 26 2009, 04:44 PM, said:

Top fighters so far based completely on displayed martial skill for me. I am leaving Icarium out as I am not sure how to rate him.

1. Rake

2. Dassem

3. Karsa

4. Bryce

5. Mok

6. Silchas Ruin

7. Trull

8. Tool

9. Kallor

10. Rell

11. Iron Bars

12. Blues

13. Spinnoc

14. Skinner

15. Greymane

Why is kallor and spinnock so high? they werent really impressive. I think most awoved could match them, and afew whop their asses easily ( for example blues, shimmer and iron bars would prolly all kick the crap out of kallor ). also if you count martial prowess you have forgetten all the assassins, I belive Kalam, Dancer, Cowl, Topper, Laseen etc for example would give most of these a run for their money.

Greymane and skinner should also be moved up abit, if you add skinners armor he should prolly be nr 3.

[Urizen]

Two things: First, Caladan Brood seems to have been forgotten, The way ( at least to me) his relationship with Rake is described, is that of two equals. At least he should be above someone like Kallor..

Two; Greymane ought be moved up the list.
Iin MoI Brood places himself, Rake, Seguleh First, Daseem Ultor and Greymane togheter as group of people that Kallor hasn't faced, implying that these are at the top of the foodchain..(and that Kallor isn't there). It's pretty darn impressive company Greymane gets lumped into. Given that Brood isn't the showboating, bragging kind as well as someone that knows what he's talking about, His opinion should carry some weight..

[Aptorian]

But this is a best swordsman thread.

[Urizen]

Oops...forget about my Brood ramblings but the bits about Greymane still holds true.

[The Crow]

Onos, on Dec 3 2008, 01:48 AM, said:

"Enough to give anyone trouble. Shimmer, Blues, maybe even Skinner" - Iron Bars MT

I would infer from that that Skinner is tops, followed by Blues then Shimmer.

"It had been said, by Guardsmen who would know, that he (Iron Bars) was nearly a match for Skinner. And now Corlo believed it" Corlo MT

Not sure where to put Iron Bars now. I have no other evidence of Blues and Shimmer... so might still keep Iron Bars above them unless someone can contradict me.

Well, it is said, in ROTCG and other places, that Blues is the Guards finest swordsman. So I say he should rank above Skinner, although to be honest I don't know what else they could've used in comparison to say that Skinner is better than Blues.


Oh and, in reply to Apt saying that Brood shouldn't be brought in because he doesn't wield a sword...well, then why the heck is Trull on the list?






Also, Grubb

This post has been edited by The Crow: 14 August 2009 - 07:15 PM