[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Slow Ben, on 19 April 2025 - 01:24 AM, said:

You're literally the only person I've ever heard say they don't like Andor.

Why Is Andor So Boring - Reddit

AITA for thinking that Andor was kinda…boring? - Reddit







... and many more...

Granted, it's much more like "prestige TV" than I'd expect most Star Wars series to be. And I generally like slow-paced prestige TV. (Twin Peaks: The Return? Bring it on!)

But by those standards it also sucks so far. Critics who said they liked the first five and a half hours were probably like, "I hate Star Wars so I was expecting to hate this, but this is actually kind of like the TV I actually like, so even though it's not really very good, I am overjoyed to not have been forced to watch more Star Wars, so I shall acclaim it."

And I don't doubt that it eventually gets better... someone said episodes 8-10 are good.

The cinematography is good and prestige-y, and most of the acting is good, with the partial exception of young dorkier but less goofy tight-assed Kyle MacLachlan lookalike. And maybe young Hispanic Natalie Portman---I kept getting distracted by how much she looks like Natalie Portman and wondering if that's why they cast her, and her facial expressions did seem a bit over-exaggerated for television, though that could be a cultural thing. On that note while I like that they're trying to add visible Latino representation (Pascal being from Chile), Pascal's character's background is obviously based on indigenous peoples, but none of the characters have visible indigenous features. All the "indigenous" people seem excessively pale even for Europeans living mostly outdoors in ample sunlight---like standard issue whiteys "playing Indian" in a very superficial way (if decently acted---for children). Pascal has no known indigenous ancestry, and while his Spanish ancestry is obvious in his facial features, even for a Spaniard he's on the paler side... and yet in the show he's referred to as "dark". If they wanted "dark", they should have gotten an actor with obvious indigenous features---there are plenty of great ones---or at least made sure that Pascal got more of a tan (without applying brownface or indigenous-face or whatever, of course).

Shall I slog on? I shall. (I think... perhaps I'll fall asleep and wake up when my fast is over (tomorrow evening... or beyond, if I sleep too long... and if Trump dies before I wake, I'll be a happy camper).)

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 19 April 2025 - 10:13 AM

[QuickTidal]

I also don’t like ANDOR. Atleast s1

[Tsundoku]

QuickTidal, on 19 April 2025 - 11:02 AM, said:

I also don’t like ANDOR. Atleast s1

Boo!

@AVD
without even watching or reading any of those links I can tell you those people who didn't think Andor was the best Disney SW are probably the sort who thought The Acolyte wasn't utter festering shite. Which it was. With the exception of Manny Jacinto.

If Mandalorian S1 made me feel like the original Star Wars (later called A New Hope), then Andor gives similar feelings to Empire. Star Wars - a bit more grown up.

But, as it's still a free country here and over there (just wait until a few Executive Orders down the road ...) I guess YMMV.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 19 April 2025 - 01:34 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Tsundoku, on 19 April 2025 - 01:23 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 19 April 2025 - 11:02 AM, said:

I also don't like ANDOR. Atleast s1

Boo!

"First take my tongue, and afterwards my heart.
[Bites off his tongue, and spits it at the king,
As blood sprays out across the stage and towards
The audience, that never saw fake blood before]"



Somebody should make a TV show of The Spanish Tragedy. Maybe reframe the verse as rap or song if need be.

This one modernized scene posted to Youtube is okay, though it would be nice if they leaned into the easy musicality of the meter and the rhyme a little more, instead of the usual modern Anglophone actorly nonsense of actively trying to break it up so it doesn't sound like the obvious verse it's intended to be---which instead of making it sound more "natural" just makes it sound odd and awkward, if conversational:



Only full version on Youtube is a crappy student production. Audiobook seems decent, but it's really better with visuals. Of course it would have been even better back when it was first released in 1587. Especially the shock of the tongue being bitten out, since such SFX iirc were still a bit new for their audiences (then again I'm not sure how much gory SFX work went into those medieval Christian plays and performances... aside from the actual torture and murder, of course).

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 19 April 2025 - 01:47 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Tsundoku, on 19 April 2025 - 01:23 PM, said:

If Mandalorian S1 made me feel like the original Star Wars (later called A New Hope), then Andor gives similar feelings to Empire. Star Wars - a bit more grown up.

But, as it's still a free country here and over there (just wait until a few Executive Orders down the road ...) I guess YMMV.

Empire had a good script, some great performances (with at least one of the most famous lines having been improvised), great score, and iirc somewhat groundbreaking worldbuilding, SFX, and cinematography... and a good pace.

The acting and the cinematography in Andor aren't good enough to compensate for the weak script and glacially fluff padded pace. The script does get a bit better after the first episode but in a way that reminds me of The Rings of Power---some decent one-liners or brief speeches but nothing great, and the script and worldbuilding might actually be worse than The Rings of Power.

And it's like they had maybe two hours of decent material and padded it out to twelve episodes.

But if it were a 12 episode long version of something like The Empire Strikes Back... I might actually like that. Personally I tend to err on the side of wanting more when the world-building and/or the acting are good enough to merit it. (Then again, I probably feel that way most often when the writing or the show has been distilled to just the best parts....) But Andor's a massive bore. (So far... what depths and breadths and yawns of fluff...)


[Edit: I meant a 12 episode long version of The Empire Strikes Back, not Return of the Jedi, though I did really like that too]

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 19 April 2025 - 03:34 PM

[Slow Ben]

 QuickTidal, on 19 April 2025 - 11:02 AM, said:

I also don’t like ANDOR. Atleast s1

Yeah, but you liked the newest trilogy, so while you’re generally one of my favorite people on here, I don’t take your Star Wars opinion into account. 😀.

[Slow Ben]

 Tsundoku, on 19 April 2025 - 01:23 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 19 April 2025 - 11:02 AM, said:

I also don’t like ANDOR. Atleast s1

Boo!

@AVD
without even watching or reading any of those links I can tell you those people who didn't think Andor was the best Disney SW are probably the sort who thought The Acolyte wasn't utter festering shite. Which it was. With the exception of Manny Jacinto.

Right? Or from most of the younger kids my children’s age who can’t follow a plot for more than 30 seconds because it’s not a TikTok.

I’m not normally a “this younger generation” “shakes fist”, but I’m with the boomers and the lack of attention span on this one.


@Azath. I’m not saying this is you, you’re well within your right not to like such a well written and well acted show.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Slow Ben, on 19 April 2025 - 04:57 PM, said:

Right? Or from most of the younger kids my children's age who can't follow a plot for more than 30 seconds because it's not a TikTok.

I'm not normally a "this younger generation" "shakes fist", but I'm with the boomers and the lack of attention span on this one.


@Azath. I'm not saying this is you, you're well within your right not to like such a well written and well acted show.

Such a well-written and well-acted show that neither are very good by top-shelf Star Wars standards---maybe not even by Rings of Power standards.

I do love a lot of shows and films in which nothing much happens but great cinematography or speeches or acting or worldbuilding or atmosphere or etc. My favorite movie of all time might be The Flicker.



It is definitely moving! So is this one, which is probably my second favorite:



Granted, it doesn't help that I specifically wanted a show that would capture my attention enough to distract me from fasting; and I am a little woozy from having almost completed day four (... of the fast, that is, not Andor---though it feels like it's been four months of slogapalooza... with blessèd breaks for commercials, like this one---oases in the swirling deserts of dullness...).

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 19 April 2025 - 05:25 PM

[QuickTidal]

Slow Ben, on 19 April 2025 - 04:53 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 19 April 2025 - 11:02 AM, said:

I also don’t like ANDOR. Atleast s1

Yeah, but you liked the newest trilogy, so while you’re generally one of my favorite people on here, I don’t take your Star Wars opinion into account. 😀.

You may have forgotten my visceral years long hatred of TLJ, which only softened mildly.

[Tsundoku]

QuickTidal, on 19 April 2025 - 08:25 PM, said:

Slow Ben, on 19 April 2025 - 04:53 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 19 April 2025 - 11:02 AM, said:

I also don’t like ANDOR. Atleast s1

Yeah, but you liked the newest trilogy, so while you’re generally one of my favorite people on here, I don’t take your Star Wars opinion into account. 😀.

You may have forgotten my visceral years long hatred of TLJ

Which still gives me warm fuzzies.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Starting around halfway through episode seven Andor starts becoming truly quite... okayish. Still a bit of filler though.

The

Spoiler

barefoot prison

seems mildly imaginative, but a little boring, and the

Spoiler

factory with humans assembling machines in a way that could easily be done much more efficiently by robots even today

is dumb. Couldn't they at least have an excuse for using humans? Like something to do with

Spoiler

midichlorians or human experiments

or whatever?

Younger but less charismatic Gillian Anderson quasi-lookalike (third one in this series that made me wonder if they were using AI to make old actors look young again---or in Natalie Portman's case, young and Hispanic, which seemed extremely unlikely given the likely backlash---did the casting director think they could trick people into thinking this is more of a prestige drama than it is by casting what seems like an unprecedented number of Famous Really Good Actor quasi-lookalikes?) is also still a bit boring. If OG Gillian Anderson is AOC, she's Hillary Clinton.

Maybe watch the first 5 minutes of episode one and read a plot summary for the rest up through ep6 would be my recommendation. (Unless you want something to put you to sleep...)

[Tsundoku]

Whatever works for you dude.

But I did chuckle when you remarked about the greater efficiency of machines over humans in the Star Wars universe.
Yup, robots and computers should be way better ... but they aren't. It's like they're stuck in the 70s or something ...

[worry]

4 eps (of 8) into North of North -- Canadian show set in Nunavut, on Netflix here in the US. I'm finding it to be overall a pretty easy watch. Some of the acting is a little rough around the edges, I imagine some of the cast have pretty brief imdb pages, but it's not the kind of show where that matters much. Mostly a chill cozy sitcom with some low stakes drama.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Last 12 hours of my five day Easter fast... any recommendations for a fast-paced distracting Hulu show with a season 1 that I can finish in ten hours? Prefer high quality + (for this purpose) plot that runs across multiple episodes. Already watched The Bear, What We Do in the Shadows (which is a bit too episodic and slow-paced for this anyway), all American Horror Story except last season. Want to put off Dying for Sex for now. Most of the comedies look too episodic. Watched but didn't care for Only Murders in the Building season 1.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 20 April 2025 - 10:39 AM

[Tiste Simeon]

 Azath Vitr (D, on 20 April 2025 - 10:39 AM, said:

Last 12 hours of my five day Easter fast... any recommendations for a fast-paced distracting Hulu show with a season 1 that I can finish in ten hours? Prefer high quality + (for this purpose) plot that runs across multiple episodes. Already watched The Bear, What We Do in the Shadows (which is a bit too episodic and slow-paced for this anyway), all American Horror Story except last season. Want to put off Dying for Sex for now. Most of the comedies look too episodic. Watched but didn't care for Only Murders in the Building season 1.

I'm sure ChatGPT can create something for you.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Tiste Simeon, on 20 April 2025 - 11:01 AM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 20 April 2025 - 10:39 AM, said:

Last 12 hours of my five day Easter fast... any recommendations for a fast-paced distracting Hulu show with a season 1 that I can finish in ten hours? Prefer high quality + (for this purpose) plot that runs across multiple episodes. Already watched The Bear, What We Do in the Shadows (which is a bit too episodic and slow-paced for this anyway), all American Horror Story except last season. Want to put off Dying for Sex for now. Most of the comedies look too episodic. Watched but didn't care for Only Murders in the Building season 1.

I'm sure ChatGPT can create something for you.

I tried Google's AI just now and it's still too stupid to be helpful. Recommended Shogun which I don't think is particularly fast-paced. Then I asked it if Shogun is fast-paced and it said... no. Whelp...

Do plan on finishing Shogun but there's some error when I try to watch episode 2 iirc. Might just have to watch that one on a different device.

Its second recommendation? Handmaids Tale... pretty sure that's not fast-paced either. Bleh.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Tried ChatGPT, asking for fast-paced and critically acclaimed TV shows on Hulu. It also recommended The Handmaid's Tale, which again I'm pretty sure isn't fast-paced. So I asked it if The Handmaid's Tale is fast-paced, and it answered...

Quote

The Handmaid’s Tale isn't typically considered fast-paced in the traditional sense. It's more of a slow-burn dystopian drama that builds tension gradually through atmosphere, emotion, and powerful performances rather than constant action or quick plot twists.

Generative AI already has some great uses but for many questions (like this one) it's still extremely stupid and largely useless.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Hmm, reviewing my watch history, it looks like I actually only got through episode 1 of Only Murders in the Building before giving up on it... and at least one critic calls it "fast-paced and never boring" so maybe I'll give it another chance today... last time I fasted for five days I let myself watch Vox Machina on days 4 and 5 but had to stop because so much saltwater and mucus was exiting my face I started to worry that it might not be healthy....

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 20 April 2025 - 02:19 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

At last my slog is ended... which is to say, I finally managed to get through the last two episodes of Andor today. (About four and a half hours to go until the end of my fast.)

Overall: it's an okay-ish glacial burn, but it definitely doesn't deserve the critical acclaim it's apparently gotten---which anyway is probably more on the order of: "it's quite good---for a Star Wars show---because it isn't really much of a Star Wars show..."

I appreciate the attempts at storytelling through flashing facial expressions, but in many cases they're badly acted---they look forced and overwrought, and the way the camera lingers on them makes it seem as if the show wants a pat on the back for being slightly (but really, barely...) "subtle" and "sophisticated". The ISB supervisor---despite her fetching grimace---is particularly bad in places. Another glaringly noticeable facial fail: when young Hispanic Natalie Portman's lip trembles in

Spoiler

episode 12

, it's obviously feigned (though she does a much better job of

Spoiler

screaming in agony in an earlier episode iirc

.

Dude not wearing a helmet

Spoiler

headbutts a Storm Trooper in the helmet and the Storm Trooper gets knocked out while the helmetless headbutter seems utterly unfazed

what lol? Would have been much better if they'd set that up to make sense somehow, as is it just seemed like laughably dumb lazy writing.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Also got in a few episodes of Only Murders in the Building before the end of my five day fast.

I usually have a high tolerance for "theatrical" delivery but I really don't care for Martin Short's corny old-timey "I'm doing comedy!" voice. Especially when he sounds like he has no idea whatsoever what he's actually saying, which ruins otherwise humorous lines.

Steve Martin's okay. In terms of vocal delivery Selena Gomez provides arguably more of a foil to Short with her low-pitched deadpan---unfortunately many of her lines aren't very good to begin with, and she delivers them in a sort of throw-away fashion that doesn't make them any funnier, but at least gets them over with quickly.

The pace is generally somewhat fast, though what's happening is often uninteresting (to me). The writing is okay.

I didn't expect Sting's acting to be any good, or for him to be funny at all, but for the most part he's great (granted, at playing himself), and funnier than the main cast. Probably doesn't appear much though, with the exception of one episode.

Now back to my regularly scheduled limitation of TV watching to once a week while I'm electrocuting my abs. Next I think I'll do the latest season of American Horror Story, though I don't like that it stars Kim Kardashian... WTF, oh well.

While I'm at it perhaps I should mention the last few series I watched:

American Horror Story: NYC - campier and more flawed than some previous seasons but overall I liked it a lot. Focus on homosexuals, mostly gay men, in early 80's Greenwich Village, and on police bias against them. Inspiration from AIDS, John Wayne Gacy, Frankenstein, and Jason movies (but with a leather fetish mask). The last episode was more like a music video but had some great visuals.

The Bear - it's very well done. Some of the celebration of excellence is maybe a little too pat and clean, some of the inspirational quotes or speeches about how wonderful and important restaurants are a little overcooked, some relations a little too telegraphed, but overall good. Some might criticize it for "punching down" on non-college educated working-class white males but it also humanizes those it satirizes and I don't think it's excessively demeaning.

What We Do in the Shadows final season - I was really disappointed that this was the final season until I watched it and realized they made the right decision. Still worth watching IMO but nowhere near as good as the first few seasons iirc.