[D'rek]

Yes, the Matron's binding-of-existance spell has been mentioned by more than just Fear Sengar. However, VG, don't assume it has anything to do with Dragnipur.

In any case, I'm not so sure that Liossercal's reason for destroying the Azath was because of some secret of the Azath. It's quite possible he just felt the need to destroy something or someone that was ensnared by the Azath. Personally, I suspect some being that was hiding in the Azath, being its Guardian a-la Gothos. Since he couldn't get into the Azath, he just decided to destroy it, hopefully eliminating the Guardian with it. And he may well have done this alone, the 'others' he is referring to being creatures that could have emerged alive once the Azath died a-la Seregahl.

[Jorram]

First off, thank you again, Hetan Your efforts are really lovely

Apparently, I'm going to be the only one here to dislike the prologue.
The style seems stumbling and the entire scene is like a badly sewn sequence of i-want-to-drop-a-hint patches. Even were we to add the originally italicized parts, the lack of which i blame for the apparent tense mistmaches in the text, I don't see the result very much more appealing.

Anyway, enough of literary rant

What I gathered from the prologue:

- Liossercal seems a pretty different personality than Osserc, and also there are these ridiculous "tusks", however everything else hints to them being the same person - his dragon form, his name (liossan + osserc), the "firstborn" bit (I think the Liossan in HoC referred likewise to him), the apparently "dropped" mention of Anomander.

- Denuth looks like the golems at the hear of Burn's warren in MoI, which lends credibility to the idea of his Mother being Burn or an incarnation thereof (since we know Burn is "young"). What's more important, the passage hints that both Osserc/Liossercal and Draconus are alien to this world (although they seem to be universally "famous"), which throws into the trash the idea of Elder Gods being originally of Wu.

- "Consort no more" refers to MD switching to FL apparently. The "suzerain of Night" is a stupid title in itself, but it being "defied long ago" sounds really weird. Then we know Draconus was claimed consort to Tiam (Tiam was NOT a consort to MD, stop claiming that) but this might have occured earlier or later..

Okay, off to first chapter

[D'rek]

I wonder if all this is after or before the rise of the KCCM. Having creatures "of the Earth" and it being in "The Elder Age, Time Unmeasured" makes me think it is before even the rise of mass-reproducing sentient races like the KCCM, Eres'al, Jaghut, etc.

But the KCCM Matrons kept the Elder Gods from coming to the Malazi-world. Did the KCCM show up and then kick out the EGs? Is the Prologue even in the Malazi-world? Oh the mystery....

[Mentalist]

Well, we have "Earth", as "Mother"--we haven't Heard of any other worlds that have such a deity
Also, Draconus is already making Dragnipur, but no one knows yet that it's a sword.
And while he's hunting felow Draconeans, other EGs (K'rul, SoCN) only learn of it in MoI proplogue, after they curse Kallor.
THe Tiste have come to this world, so, I'd say this is all after the sundering of KE, but not long after.

[Aptorian]

Jorram;308445 said:

Apparently, I'm going to be the only one here to dislike the prologue.

But, but... it's three elder gods/beings standing in a gigantic crater where an Azath was destroyed. We see dragnipur before it was made. We hear all kinds of juicy elder chit-chat...

What is there not to like?!

[Mentalist]

Apt, apparently some people pay attention to literary style.. not something I understand much, personally

EDIT; as per Jorram's other point, I think it's safe to assume that ALL Draconeans (with the Exception of Olar Ethil), are not native to Wu/Burn

However, beings such as Mael and Killimandros are question marks (especially Mael)

Draconus' titles would hint that he was the consort of MD (who's supposedly his mother, if you buy the "EGs were first kids of MD" theory)
now, I may be mistaken, but FW's reading in MT lists him as the Consort in the Dragon Hold, suggesting that he turned to Tiam after being spurned by MD?
in MoI, Draconus says that he's been forging Dragnipur "since the time of All-Darkness". This would suggest that he predates FL. He was a witness of the birth of light, which he describes to Paran as "retreat" of MD. We know that the union of MD and FL gave birth to Shadow. perhaps Draconus left MD after the birth of light, as he was no longer considered her 'favoured child", and instead h had something to do with SD?
"Suzerain of the nigth" is another title of his, that was supposedly usurped. This could, imho, relate to the birth of the three of MD's Andii children.

[Aptorian]

What is this litterary mombo jombo you speak of? :confused:

I admit i thought the internal monologue of Denuth and the conversations were a bit akward. I also thought the beginning of the first chapter was a bit shaky.

But it's not anything that grinds my gears, in fact a five year old could have written it for all I care as long as the material is that awesome.

[D'rek]

Mentalist;308468 said:

And while he's hunting felow Draconeans, other EGs (K'rul, SoCN) only learn of it in MoI proplogue, after they curse Kallor.

Maybe he was just refreshing their memory?

Quote

THe Tiste have come to this world, so, I'd say this is all after the sundering of KE, but not long after.

If Liossercal were a very important pre-Tiste (maybe not FL, but something close), he could be in Malaziword long before the Tiste invasions...

[Mentalist]

Ah, but we also get mentionoing of Anomandaris...
also

Quote

Denuth recoiled. Indeed. And here then was the quandary. Something must be done about these ancient powers before their antagonisms and limitless ambitions destroy all order once again. Draconus’s solution horrifies, yet well now could I almost understand such … exigencies. After all, was not eternal imprisonment preferable to such potential for destruction?

this COULD be referring to KE

Quote

This unending strife of all against all wearied him. Why must they contend so? Was it truly no more than pettiness and childish prickliness, as Kilmandaros suggests? He would consider what it might take to end these eternal cycles of violence. And he would consult with Mother. It would, he imagined, take some time to find an answer. Should there be any.

now this is interesting... is Killy the Elder version of Burn?

[SiriusL]

Jorram;308445 said:

First off, thank you again, Hetan Your efforts are really lovely

- Denuth looks like the golems at the hear of Burn's warren in MoI, which lends credibility to the idea of his Mother being Burn or an incarnation thereof (since we know Burn is "young"). What's more important, the passage hints that both Osserc/Liossercal and Draconus are alien to this world (although they seem to be universally "famous"), which throws into the trash the idea of Elder Gods being originally of Wu.

Wow. Awesome! Thanks Hetan!!

Jorram, I thought the same thing about Denuth being one of Burn's statue guys. Makes me wonder what happened that requires them to be hanging out supporting the Earth in Burn's weird underground warren thingy.

Also:

-Osserc's "tusks" are interesting--"blunt, canine tusks," which sound decidedly different than Jaghut/Jhag tusks, and only appear when he smiles.

-I can't tell of Osserc had help assaulting the Azath, or if he was referring to the escapees that might have been inside the Azath.

-This is really interesting, regarding Osserc:

Quote

Soletaken, Elient, what were such labels to this power who may have moved through Light before it knew Dark?

This implies Light might have existed somewhere separate from Dark, prior to the "coming of Light." Makes sense, doesn't it?

-Finally, Dragnipur might be sword in this passage, but might not. It just wasn't finished, and for some reason Denuth refused look at Osserc.

[SiriusL]

Mentalist;308539 said:

Quote

Denuth recoiled. Indeed. And here then was the quandary. Something must be done about these ancient powers before their antagonisms and limitless ambitions destroy all order once again. Draconus’s solution horrifies, yet well now could I almost understand such … exigencies. After all, was not eternal imprisonment preferable to such potential for destruction?

This, and a few other passages, sound like Denuth is contemplating making something that would contain powerful beings. Maybe the Azath existed for a purpose before they began sucking in everything.

[Ayrin]

I'd say he is referring to Dragnipur.
He is saying that the destruction Osserc(?) wrought might make Draconus solution (chaining souls to the MD-wagon) understandable.

[Silencer]

It is possible that Killy is "Mother", although I think Burn is more likely. Killmandaros has been called Mother before. Denuth also speaks of Killy, and mentions their names pretty close together.
Other than that.....EPIC! I love some of the stuff in there. I'd have to say that Liossercal seems likely to be Osseric.
Love seeing Dragnipur too. And now Rake seems like a total badass.
It's all good. More speculation later, after I've read first chapter....

[Aptorian]

What do you mean Denuth speaks of Killy?

[VampireGoat]

I am assuming he means this line when refereing to Denuths mention of killy

Quote

Was it truly no more than pettiness and childish prickliness, as Kilmandaros suggests?

[Aptorian]

Weird, I can't even find it when I scan the text.

[Illuyankas]

Three lines from the bottom.

[Mentalist]

Quote

This unending strife of all against all wearied him. Why must they contend so? Was it truly no more than pettiness and childish prickliness, as Kilmandaros suggests? He would consider what it might take to end these eternal cycles of violence. And he would consult with Mother. It would, he imagined, take some time to find an answer. Should there be any.

here you go

[Abyss]

SiriusL;308540 said:

...
-Osserc's "tusks" are interesting--"blunt, canine tusks," which sound decidedly different than Jaghut/Jhag tusks, and only appear when he smiles.
...

Thoughts:

Per Mael in MT and elsewhere, we know Elder Gods at least can change their forms or else their forms shift to reflect their worshippers (See also Rake spending a while disguised as a human). Debateable whether Lio/Ossi falls into the 'elder God' category, but regardless, minor shapeshifting seems well within his power - he's soletaken, he turns into a frikkin dragon - some dental work isn't going to be a big deal.

If Lio' is Ossi', let's suppose that at the time of the prologue, humanity is still in a nascent state, the Liosan probably don't even exist, and the Jaghut are amongst the primary powers on the planet... so a being that's tied to a primal concept like 'Light' could look like pretty much anything. If we take the (probably too) obvious tusks = Jaghut, then hey, why shouldn't he have them and decide to dispense with them a few millenia later.

But the implications are interesting... this is an angry, reckless ascnedant, very different from the snobby academic Osserc we see in HoC, tho similarly arrogant.

- Abyss, found it interesting that Denuth thought it could take him.

[Aptorian]

Denuth thought it could take him then, in his weakened state.