[Dancer+]

First I want to say that this thread is likely to be full of spoilers, read on at your own perils. I'll warn you again, it will be foolish to read on. Finally and entirely on the same note, only read on if you want your reading experience ruined into the future.

Personally I really liked the book. It had some good moments. It clearly shows the development of ICE as a writer and emphasises how much rein he has upon characters and plot. His license is equivalent to SE's, which is brillant.

This is only a very minor, late night post. I'll elaborate after some others join the forray.

My favourite aspects:

• Lots of deaths
  
• Some big name clashes
  
• The beautiful pages
  
• The list of cast: Laseen, Possum, Traveller, Ereko, Skinner, Cowl, Kallor, Iron Bars, Blues, Fingers, Urko, Toc the Elder, Amaron, Choss, K'azz, Topper, Cotillion, Shadowthrone, Hound of Shadow, Greymane, Mallick Rel, Korbolo Dom, Tayschrenn, Kiska, Hattar, Lazar, Halfdan, Seguleh, Rell (the pretty good swordsmen), The Crippled God, Osserc, Anomander Rake etc.

Favourite moments:

• Mentions of Dancer
  
• Iron Bars Vs Seguleh Spokesmen, and the surprise that entails
  
• Dassem Ultor (Traveller) Vs Kallor
  
• The Whole End Saga. (Laseen's death, Tayschrenn's interference and disappearance into the rift, Topper-Cowl, Dassem-Skinner, Dassem and Hood and their talk, Skinner and his new position)
  
• Confirming without doubt that Traveller=Dassem Ultor. I think Traveller being Malazan, having black long hair which he ties back, remarking about getting Kallor back for an old friend and everything else, must lead to no doubt.

Some problems:

• Editing mistakes again - They misspell Dessembrae, they call it Dassembrae. Hood Forbid! Then there are other mistakes like letters missing off words occasionally, speech marks the wrong way and on the rare occasion words missed. It's not that bad though to be honest.
  
• Sometimes it was unclear who should be speaking, only very rarely did this appear.
  
• Cowl and Skinner didn't die, absolute bastards! I really wanted Cotillion to finish off Cowl but I knew it wouldn't happen. Cotillion isn't vengeful like Shadowthrone.
  
• The elimination of the Old Guard...pretty much. It's upsetting.

I think I have two new despised characters, Skinner and Cowl are on that list. They are actually two of the first characters in the series that I dislike strongly. I like Kallor, and I can just about stomach the Errant but those two...

[The Dark Wanderer]

I will agree with Dancer on nearly all of the above points, the end battle/saga was on a par with the seige at the end of MoI and was if anything too complex although that will probably be better on re-reads when I'm not in a rush to get through it and find out what happens.

My main likes

• lots of clever references
  
• lots more info on the battle against the Stormriders
  
• some very unforeseen events
  
• some less unforeseen, but well done events
  
• some nice character development esp seeing Surly do her stuff

My main dislikes

• too many new characters just thrown into the mix without real need
  
• a weird link between a creature of the Earth and the Toblakai (probably will see the point when it gets developed more)
  
• a prologue without a huge ramification for the book
  
• Mallick Rel

[Dancer+]

I agree with the too many characters thrown into the mix thing, I assume things will be better on rereads. The prologue I also agree with, although it does give us some good hints about things in general.
I believe the Thel Akai were predates to the Toblakai and all the other giant races. They were the first children of the earth. Just as the Imass were predates to Humans, Barghast etc.
Mallick Rel wasn't as bad as I thought he would be, Korbolo Dom was much worse. Trying to take Dassem's place...tut tut, impossible.

What was your favourite scene in the book?

I certainly have a good feeling about this book now, it's like the morning after when everything sinks in; the sorrow but the scope of the book, where I can reflect on what has happened.

[The Dark Wanderer]

Korbolo Dom was just unbelievably arrogant while Rel was trying to force Mael to do his will. I've had a thought on the Thel Akai maybe they're similar to the earth elementals QB met way back in MoI, but sent out into the world to experience it, would explain the way he 'dies'. Thinking back some more, really liked Ardata's numerous appearances in the book as a 'guardian' of Kyle, didn't like Edgewalker's though as they didn't seem to have much point.

Favourite scene would have to be in Shadowkeep when Shadowthrone, Cotillion and Travller face up against Osserc, just a brillant image of the three of them back together again. Did also like the epilogue scene with Dessembrae and Hood. Yours?

[Dancer+]

It was ashame that the three of them didn't eliminate Osserc. That would have been amusing. I would have loved to have seen Dancer and Traveller hug eachother and break down their separate facades whilst leaving Kellanved to his ways.

I was a big fan of Traveller and Kallor's meeting. Kallor is just so arrogant, but likeably so. I enjoyed the whole of Traveller's part in the book - I wonder for what reasons he promises he will be back (to Hood silently).

There were just so many decent parts to the book. I enjoyed the epilogue a lot; how Temp, Ferrule (I believe), Rell and Urko go after the D'ivers/Soletaken. And the Skinner part.

[blackzoid]

Things which I liked:
Dassem's fight with Kallor
Dassem's kight with Skinner ( I was worried that this would not happen)
The Segulah ship sequence
The appearance of the Old Guard (Especially Toc the Elder)
Osserc
Skinner's personality (I dig him)
The shocking deaths.

Things which I hated:
Cussers, Shapers, munitions etc
This has to STOP! Seriously, both Steve and Ian are now using these too much. As
soon as the character of Nait appeared for each section, I knew that a cusser would be used to get
out of whatever problem is at hand. I spotted the cusser solution to the rent porblem about 10 pages before it happened.
Its become a very annoying telegraphed solution to any problem that a character has. I was cheering for the Guard, because they wern't using munitions! Its become an utter joke. First Reaper's Gale and now this.

[BeLeG]

why did Dassem and Skinner fight for the second time?
Or is it a flashback?
Who won anyway?
( It maybe a while before I can get this book in my hands so...)

[wolf_2099]

Okay. Question. The scene with Hood and Dassem? Did I miss this?

I remember the scene with Hood and Dessembrae but I got the impression they were speaking of Toc the Elder?
I will re-read, but for now, clarification? Dessembrae = Dassem and he was discussing Toc with Hood?

Iron Bars on the wall at the end, yes? Could be interesting?

[buddhacat]

BeLeG;326858 said:

why did Dassem and Skinner fight for the second time?
Or is it a flashback?
Who won anyway?
( It maybe a while before I can get this book in my hands so...)

Dassem fought Skinner back when he was the First Sword. This was a draw. Then, the fight in RotCG is the second. Dassem wins the sword fight.

[buddhacat]

wolf_2099;327145 said:

Okay. Question. The scene with Hood and Dassem? Did I miss this?

I remember the scene with Hood and Dessembrae but I got the impression they were speaking of Toc the Elder?
I will re-read, but for now, clarification? Dessembrae = Dassem and he was discussing Toc with Hood?

Iron Bars on the wall at the end, yes? Could be interesting?

Dassem = Dessembrae = Traveller. In his talk there at the end with Hood, they are talking about Ullen.

The next ICE novel is tentatively called Stonewielder (Greymane's name) and happens on Korelri, so I hope we see more of Iron Bars. He needs some good luck, though, for a change.

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

Looking forward to read more about Iron Bars

Good things about this book are for me the amazing plot developments really. I used to think of the ICE books as 'side stories' to SE's 'main storyline', but I guess I'm proven wrong here, with Laseen's death being the big one here. Also a bunch of the Old Guard killed, Tayschrenn who actually gets his arse into the action again - me likey.

What I didn't like so much, was the first volume. Was hard to get into, lots of useless names and somehow difficult reading, was a bit hard to get into. Also, ICE is not as good in describing scenes to me as SE is. Not that he is bad at it, not at all, it's just not how SE does it.

But overal it's an awesome book enjoyed reading it a LOT, and have reread it as well already. Now for TtH ^^

[ShadowOwl]

I'm just in the middle of a much slower reread, and like SE, ICE has put a lot of info hidden in plain sight. There are enough cool things, I'm going to have make notes to ref back. Liking it even more second time around!

[Zanth13]

allot of character that were mentioned here and there in earlier books appeared which was cool, but then got killed of quickly, which I thought was not so cool..

Toc Elder
Amaraon
Choss
(im sure there are more)


not to mention Lasseen, I did not see that coming, I figured she would be around all the way to the Crippled God (book 10 of SE)

oh and what was the point of that spoiled noble girl... forget her name, but the one pretending to be a Captain... her whole plotline ammounted to nothing...I was hoping she would get killed...

[Atton]

I think Ghenel will feature in future books possibly, her point of view chapters don't seem necessary and could have been dealt with by another character - from an Amarons point of view would have been better. So I'm hoping as giving her the chapters wasn't needed in RotCG then she will be developed for a reason later.

What I liked:
Lots of action near the end.
Lasseen in action.
Storro and Hurl.
ST, Cot and Traveller reunion.

What I disliked:
Osserc mini storyline - didn't really make sense to me...
Lasseen's death *mourn*
Lack of Veils (we see them a little, but in the major battle it seems heavy with claws)
Ho

[Pig Iron]

Loved it. Summary of second part of ROTCG:

[Fid]

blackzoid;326843 said:

Things which I liked:
Dassem's fight with Kallor
Dassem's kight with Skinner ( I was worried that this would not happen)
The Segulah ship sequence
The appearance of the Old Guard (Especially Toc the Elder)
Osserc
Skinner's personality (I dig him)
The shocking deaths.

Things which I hated:
Cussers, Shapers, munitions etc
This has to STOP! Seriously, both Steve and Ian are now using these too much. As
soon as the character of Nait appeared for each section, I knew that a cusser would be used to get
out of whatever problem is at hand. I spotted the cusser solution to the rent porblem about 10 pages before it happened.
Its become a very annoying telegraphed solution to any problem that a character has. I was cheering for the Guard, because they wern't using munitions! Its become an utter joke. First Reaper's Gale and now this.

Agree that munitions do seem to be used somewhat overmuch - though is that not the pattern of real warfare - when you have something that makes a real difference you use it and use it. However from a plot development perspective it does get passe pretty fast. I suppose though it evens things up against mages as the mage wars can get a bit tedious as well.

I suppose the best scenes are when something is done subtly or with flair - as Quick Ben and Fiddler have demonstrated - not the results are particulalrly subtle of course - but the creative element isappreciated.

[Pig Iron]

Said it before: it's not munitions, it's Malazan Sappers with munitions. The Malazan army seems to have an organization that encourages creativity and indivdual initiative (this is discussed in one of the books). The sappers are half-crazy and crafty and can work miracles with their totally ruthless use of munitions. The Moranths in the seccesionist army were not able to do anything really with their explosives.

[Veilside]

I loved the parts with Tayschrenn, because it's good to see quite how much of a BAMF he is (apart from the whole rent thing).

[buddhacat]

I thought Toc the Elder's story was well done. He had befriended the Seti - a nomadic horsed tribe, which he would help re-establish as its own master... and is then betrayed by them refusing to fight. The Seti find someone to answer the betrayal (Ferrule). Similar to the story played out by Toc the Younger and the Awl, who run away from a fight and then are brought back by Redmask.

[Zanth13]

Atton;329708 said:

I think Ghenel will feature in future books possibly, her point of view chapters don't seem necessary and could have been dealt with by another character - from an Amarons point of view would have been better. So I'm hoping as giving her the chapters wasn't needed in RotCG then she will be developed for a reason later.

What I liked:
Lots of action near the end.
Lasseen in action.
Storro and Hurl.
ST, Cot and Traveller reunion.

What I disliked:
Osserc mini storyline - didn't really make sense to me...
Lasseen's death *mourn*
Lack of Veils (we see them a little, but in the major battle it seems heavy with claws)
Ho

Laseen fighting was pretty cool...

when possum saw the 3 chics fighting I was like, ok 1 is Tays chic, the other is Mallick rells who is the 3rd... and then it hit me as she killed the avowed with bare hands, I was like nfw...wow

So it was Mallicks chick, (the daughter of Vorcan) who killed Lasseen right? the chic was like part demon or some crap...