[BeLeG]

It's about number of deaths and I agree with Aptorian.
Remember,dont count Karsa, he's the only flaw in MBOTF.I hope something will happen in the next books to change my mind about him.Maybe he becomes arrogant enough to challenge Rake.Then Rake kills him with magic without breaking a sweat.I'd like to see that.


I don't care what he will achieve.His character doesnt remind me of a genius uber-disciplined swordsman.Though SE tries his best to present him as a genius of sorts well I'm not convinced.

[Aptorian]

We saw twp ships, Icariums and Karsa's. And all of them has K'risnan on them, health or comfort wouldn't be a problem.

As for the quality of fighters. I think he fought plenty of excellent fighters. The Palace officials even had evaluations and projections about how many times Rhulad would die to kill one.

[Lisheo]

Ha I suppose...Still, theres just something I cant shake bout the way Karsa beat him, he was like a child compared to Karsa, I cant believe he had as much skill as we were led to believe.

[Veilside]

Zanth13;335555 said:

Interesting, well Mok was originally sent away as part of the punitive army (totaling 3). Any underlining causes are almost irrelevant cuz thats the official reason.

now other segulah might be looking for the 2nd, or the 2nds mask... possible... and that is an interesting theory...


ROTCG Spoiler BEWARE..haslkdjfhalsjdhfasjhflas AHAHAHAHAHAH

Spoiler

after all the ones Iron Bars meets are on a quest to find something that was lost, it just might be the 2nd... or his mask... or it might even be Rake...nut all those theories are pretty big speculation

Spoiler

Or the tyrant

[Raraku]

Actually the Segulah 12th was found almost dead somewhere near Callows or something. Cant find the quote that goes with that.
I agree with Apt that it was too easy. The whole scene goes on about how Rhulad is sweating and tired and Karsa hasnt even broken a sweat. I mean there was another almost full blooded TTT who killed Rhulad 7 times and they had accorded Karsa with only 3 days cause they thought those days were over where Rhulad could be killed so many times.
I also wanted an epic battle with Karsa winning by just a little.

[L'oric]

Does it not strike to as somewhat sychophantic the way they (The chancellor) panders to Rhulad during those conversations on how he would not be killed 7 times by Karsa or as they go through the lists of Champions?

There was never anythig grand from Rhulad why would he deserve a grand death? The character died just as he had lived. As a tool and nothing more.

[Tarcil]

The sword was intended for Karsa right?
Maybe the Crippled God made the power of the sword less so that Rhulad would get killed and Karsa would arrive and claim the sword.

long shot, I know, but it makes sense, how else would Karsa get the sword?

[Dancer+]

The Crippled God should have supported Karsa from the start, not tried to focus on manipulating Rhulad as his tool again. His plan changes make him very unattractive in that sense.

[Aptorian]

Again?

Why can't the crippled god support both Karsa and Rhulad at the same time? He's a god, it's not like he has a short attention span or limited ressources...

[Sotgnomen]

Haha apt, it's not like we're not perfectly spoiled with epic battles as it is in this series.
Im a bit divided in this. I of course also wanted an epic grand finale with Karsa vs CG(through Rhulad). Though I think we've seen that with CG and his servants it usually ends with grovelling and whining(witness Pannion, The Leper, Bidithal, not to mention the end scene with Karsa, CG and Rhulad)
Though I wanted an epic battle, I agree with L'oric that this was nothing more than Rhulads character deserved(if only he'd dragged the Errant with him too:P)

But logically it made sense to me. Yes, he's faced deadly fighters before, but we've had no indication he's faced anything that could stand up to say a Deragoth, let alone kill two. Picture this TTB who killed him seven as an example. Do you see a guy someone like Kalam for instance could not dispatch of? Fact of it is Karsa, Icarium, others.. are in an entirely different league.
Of course, we could be disappointed Karsa discovered the solution so fast. If Rhulad had been allowed to come back a few more times, it could have been an entirely different battle.

[muco]

If not for Karsa knowing Rhulads secret, he would have ended up dead.

On the other hand, why are so many so suprised of Karsa's ability with a sword. He comes from a clan that is as much into war as Seguleh is and Karsa does happen to be the best among them. Add to that the 90+ years of training he has had. We are not surprised by Mok displaying such skill but are when its Karsa who is doing it. I thought the first book of HOC does make us realize how teblor functioned.

Like SE stated in an interview, people just tend to underestimate Karsa.

[BeLeG]

In the past Karsa used to underestimate anyone else but he survived.
He survived because of his physical strength and immunity to magic.
Back when he left his home he was not half the warrior he is now imho
I think the Seguleh society is unique in the Malazan world

[Lisheo]

I think the CG's idea of handing Karsa the sword after Rhulad killed Karsa was either a) an attempt to salvage his plan, or his real plan all along. In another thread, an idea occured to me... In RG Silchas states that if it wasn't for his worshippers, the CG would have healed long ago... Maybe he is trying to groom Karsa as a replacement God of the Broken so that he himself can heal?

[Rope]

the CG wants karsa in his deck, but karsa is not having it. I think in HOC when they tell him that he is the knight of chains..he is like I don't follow any God.
same thing happened in RG, i dont think the sword was ever meant for Karsa, the CG just tried to play it off once he killed Rhulald

[Ain't_It_Just_]

L said:

Does it not strike to as somewhat sychophantic the way they (The chancellor) panders to Rhulad during those conversations on how he would not be killed 7 times by Karsa or as they go through the lists of Champions?

There was never anythig grand from Rhulad why would he deserve a grand death? The character died just as he had lived. As a tool and nothing more.

He was a dick. What really pissed me off about Rhulad was how no matter who went up against him (Dassem, Seguleh 1st, Skinner, etc) he would eventually be able to beat them, purely by the sword's power. Dumb.

[Lisheo]

Well apparently not

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Lisheo;338023 said:

Well apparently not

Yeah... well, the CG intervened I bet.

[Dolmen 2.0]

What are the seguleh exactly? I know there was a few connections to darujhistan and some thing to do with tyrants...I'm a bit fuzzy about the details but why is it they occur on a single island? surely they came from somewhere

(I'm looking here for something similar to the Barghast being descended from the Thelomen.)

[Tapper]

From the top of my head:

Seguleh meant something like Hammer (the Tor'ud Kabal (or whatever the spelling is) of sorcerors in Dharujistan was a translation of Anvil, I think, or came close to the words used somewhere (Feather Whitch?) for Shield Anvil). EDIT: it might also be the other way around.

It was hinted somewhere that they were the (exiled?) army of the Tyrants of Dharujistan - if anything, that concept resembles the one of the Emperor's slave/prisoner elite-soldiers in Dune.
More, it would fit with the reason for their hierarchical structure in society (taken over from military ranks/ valor?): an army forced to become a nation by itself might cling to its concepts of valor, worthiness and discipline, and then ritualize these values.

Also, but this is circumstantial evidence at best and biased guesswork at its worst: compare the need for duels among the Seguleh with the challenges and great value attached to dueling skills in Dharujistan - both by nobles (Turban Orr) and by well-to-do residents (Murillo, a possible Adept, Stonny, who, if not noble, at the least pretends to be upperclass, wielding a rapier - a supreme dueling weapon) - the dueling seems to be absent amongst the nobility in the Malazan Empire, at the least.

If the Seguleh were exiled, it does not explain why their name seems to be in tandem with the Cabal. Wasn't there a hint/ outright mention somewhere that it was the sorcerors who ousted the last (human) Tyrants of Dharujistan?
Or did the (immortal?) Cabal go underground (as their changed names seem to imply when Crokus reads the manuscripts after the death of his uncle) while the army exiled itself to reclusion after doing its duty or becoming obsolete?
Also, if the Seguleh's exile was self-imposed, it would also be the reason why they haven't gone out and conquered the world, which would be the ultimate test (or sport) for a warrior-nation like the Seguleh.

The more I think about it, the more I like that crazy theory - but that is my speculation, and can thus hardly be considered to be an answer to your question

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Well, Tapper pretty much answered it. But I read Mok saying in MoI that the Seguleh knew much of foreign lands, and much more than Lady Envy thought they did.