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seguleh first?

#1 User is offline   powermad 

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 12:19 PM

me and a friend were discusing the books recently and we where just wondering who the segula first is. i belive that it is daseem ultor. but not sure at all. if this has been discused before, sorry about it. well any ideas guys
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#2 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 12:28 PM

We don't know who the first seguleh is but logically it can not be Dassem. The First is the leader of some kind of warrior society. As we hear in MoI he is involved in the island nations poltical affairs.

Dassem is searching for vengeance against Hood and probably a way to save his daughter. Most likely he is the one named Traveller we see in HoC. Why would Dassem settle with the seguleh and become mirred in ther affairs? It is just so incredibly unlikely that Dassem would be the First that it's not really worth considering, sword skills or not.
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#3 User is offline   Zanth13 

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 02:41 PM

Aptorian;295803 said:

We don't know who the first seguleh is but logically it can not be Dassem. The First is the leader of some kind of warrior society. As we hear in MoI he is involved in the island nations poltical affairs.

Dassem is searching for vengeance against Hood and probably a way to save his daughter. Most likely he is the one named Traveller we see in HoC. Why would Dassem settle with the seguleh and become mirred in ther affairs? It is just so incredibly unlikely that Dassem would be the First that it's not really worth considering, sword skills or not.


[crazytheory]

Unless Traveller is infact not Dassem and Dassem is the Segulah First planning on using them to overcome the empire/world :eek:

[/crazytheory]
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#4 User is offline   Kalahinen 

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 03:38 PM

The butler is the main suspect...

Seriously, what Apt said.
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#5 User is offline   Mcflury 

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 04:15 PM

we do not know idd who the first Seguleh is, and quite honoustly, I'm afraid we'll never get to know that freaky fellah. For now the only way the Seguleh were used was basically just giving us an idea of how good what fighter was, for the rest they haven't plaid any giant part in the stories.

Maybe the Seguleh would come into play if the CG would use them as an army or something, but I sort of doubt that (mainly because my idea of the first seguleh is a bad-ass swordfighter who just can't be slain... having that guy on your side would mean guaranteed win)
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#6 User is offline   Thelomen Toblerone 

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 05:22 PM

I think they will play an increasingly prominent role in the story, as indeed they have already begun to- slowly we've been introduced to more seguleh characters and culture, plus the link between them and Darujhistan, which is going to be focussed on much more.

Also, the link between the T'orrud Cabal and the Seguleh needs to be addresseed- we know T'orrud Seguleh means Shield Anvil, perhaps the Seguleh are there to protect Darujhistan/Genabackis from something?
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#7 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 05:25 PM

Yeah, I expect to see a lot more to the Seguleh in TtH. It's sort of obvious with the link between the mages and the seguleh made in BH and RG.
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#8 User is offline   Goaswerfraiejen 

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 03:14 AM

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the Seguleh were to be the focus of an ICE novel.
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#9 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 04:27 AM

Perhaps, but the last two Erikson books have been building up to some kind of revelation.
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#10 User is offline   Ain't_It_Just_ 

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 09:11 AM

I thought the Seguleh First was dead.

Since he ain't, does that mean Mok will now be the new Second?
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#11 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 09:22 AM

Why would you think the First was dead? We've only ever heard of him issuing orders from the Seguleh Island. He's only ever actually mentioned in MoI I believe.

We don't understand how the hierarchy of the Seguleh warriors work. First of all we don't know if Hoods Soldier actually is the second. We don't know if the Seguleh Second if that is what the Soldier is, loses his tittle if he is dead. Can undead not hold a position? If the Soldier was in fact killed in Combat while he was the Second, then his killer is the Second.

Mok only advances in the hierachy if he kills the Second or the First. After all, Rake has been the seventh for probably hundreds or thousands of years, and his place has not been usurped.
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#12 User is offline   Ayrin 

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 10:36 AM

I'd guess that an undead can hold a position, since Mok & co fought Tool to determine position. If an undead can be considered a challenger, s/he should also be able to hold a position.

How the second died is an interesting question. If he was killed, then the killer should now hold the position, but he might have died from non-challenge related causes.

The fact that he doesn't wear the mask may be significant. Does that mean that he considers himself unworthy of it -> have lost the position?
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#13 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 10:40 AM

If you remember his rant, he is from before or during the time that the Seguleh left Darujistan. To him the mask isn't as important, in fact it seems that he doesn't care much for any of the customs of the Seguleh.
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#14 User is offline   Thelomen Toblerone 

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 10:44 AM

It would also fit nicely with the assertion in MoI that the Second is missing- if it's not him, then he was replaced by another Second, who also managed to get himself lost.
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#15 User is offline   Tarr 

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 05:20 PM

Or from his comments about skinner maybe he killed him!

He could have either the mage long life thingy, ascendant one or have been in service to another god and then got KIA and PIHS (Put-In-Hood's-Service)

Hood "double 002 you must stop Skinner before he does >insert evil plan here< to >insert victim here<"

and maybe baudin can be Q...
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#16 User is offline   Dancer+ 

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 06:04 PM

Here's a revolutionary thought, I consider the Seguleh First to be someone who we haven't met before. I also believe Mok and this Seguleh One to be reasonably evenly matched.
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#17 User is offline   Nequam 

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 11:47 PM

Haha, I also think it's safe to say we haven't met him yet.
...and Mok is the third, so logically he is pretty damn good, but just not quite good enough of a match for the First. Then again the First good be so amazingly good that Mok and the Second are no match what so ever. We can''t know really.
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#18 User is offline   Thelomen Toblerone 

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 11:53 PM

Well it was mentioned speculatively in MoI that perhaps Mok was nearly at a position to challenge the First, so it would seem sensible to send him on a mission in order to retain the First mask. Which would suggest at least a close level of martial prowess.
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#19 User is offline   Jimmy 

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 10:27 AM

Wasn't it Krul who said that the first was worried about Mok.

I think the second died of natural causes myself
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#20 User is offline   Mcflury 

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 11:06 AM

I've been thinking about that myself too... if you have a warrior society like the Seguleh, at a certain point the first would be a fighter of such martial prowess that nobody simply can try to defeat him, and as time passes by all ranks would be solid like that. Now, since the Seguleh seem to be mortal, at a certain point they are going to die of age, which makes sure that basically their complete structure of 'the strongest', in global view, is weaker (since the guy who used to be the second, but now is first because the first died, is still weaker then the dead-first was. This results in a complete new ranking towards other fighters (because some other fighter before maybe couldn't handle the first, but he could handle the second, but with the first dying, he now can handle the first, and thus actually is the strongest warrior suddenly, even though he didn't get stronger))

Anyways, all this text (that probably makes no sense at all because I find it rather confusing) just to put: the Seguleh scale is relative. For all we know, in 50 years time, the 'first' seguleh could be easily beaten by, let's say, Fiddler (who sucks in using a sword in the first place).

PS: sorry for wasting your time by making you read this ;)
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