[BeLeG]

sorry my bad

[L'oric]

I would like to point out that Envy believes Mok was sent away because the First feared his burgeoning abilities.

The key here is that its only Envy's opinion, but thats all we got so I am going to use it. She believed that without the Second around (he's been missing for some time) then Mok would have no choice but to go after the First.

IF Envy is correct then the difference between Mok and the Seguleh First would be a..."spear" rolling around on the ground unattended by anyone but Oponn and the Errant.

I therefore tend to believe that the Seguleh First, Mok, Brys and Tool are of smiliar ability. (Tool is in there because I love him and thats that. All eveidence to the contrary will not dissuade me.) Brys has to be in there too I guess. Trull thought he was incredible and Trull stood up to Icarium.

In the end though Icarium, Dassem (with the sword), and Rake are above everyone else IMO. Icarium when Beserk is simply too much. Dassem with the sword and focus because Icarium thinks its a toss up and thats good enough for me. Rake because...well he is Rake...the demon fight was incredible but I see Rake as a force much like Icarium but without the Beserker quality.

Karsa is Karsa. A warren unto himself. I wouldn't put it past him to beat anyone, but then turn around and lose to a Farm wife with big boobs and a cleaver, only to survive and come back badder than before.

Sincerely,
me

ps.Also Masks seem to be kept for anyone until they come to claim it so Rake still has to collect the 7th. Over the last millenia/milleniums (who cares exactly how long) every Seguleh has been 8th or 6th. I am sure they are used to having masks missing and skipping about.

[Silencer]

Dammit, BeLeG! Anything, ANYTHING, pertaining to RotCG or TtH should be spoilered!
Anyway, I think L'oric is pretty much right on all accounts there.

[magicrealist]

Reapers gale doesn't have to be spoilerized. Do you mean Return of the Crimson Guard?

[Veilside]

Yes. He does. Information from RotCG should not be posted here without spoiler tags untill it's actually seen a proper release.

[Silencer]

Thanks for catching that guys. Neither TtH nor RotCG should be non-spoilerized. It's frustrating, and I'm sure someone will slip and post a major plot-arc unspoilered sooner or later. But I don't want to ignore this forum for another week or so, either.

[Dolmen 2.0]

sorry more random questions here.



could mok be hunting the second? and why would skinner be chased by said second? my guess is he crossed hood but then theres the odd chance skinner killed said undead second and he wants to



a) get revenge or

b)pass on his mask...



also im fuzzy about envy commenting on mok really being sent away cause the first (feared?) him? thats kinda worrying. perhaps envys opinion is that mok is as good as the first? or possibly better...?

[Zanth13]

Dolmen;335534 said:

sorry more random questions here.



could mok be hunting the second? and why would skinner be chased by said second? my guess is he crossed hood but then theres the odd chance skinner killed said undead second and he wants to

a) get revenge or

b)pass on his mask...

also im fuzzy about envy commenting on mok really being sent away cause the first (feared?) him? thats kinda worrying. perhaps envys opinion is that mok is as good as the first? or possibly better...?

Interesting, well Mok was originally sent away as part of the punitive army (totaling 3). Any underlining causes are almost irrelevant cuz thats the official reason.

now other segulah might be looking for the 2nd, or the 2nds mask... possible... and that is an interesting theory...


ROTCG Spoiler BEWARE..haslkdjfhalsjdhfasjhflas AHAHAHAHAHAH

Spoiler

after all the ones Iron Bars meets are on a quest to find something that was lost, it just might be the 2nd... or his mask... or it might even be Rake...nut all those theories are pretty big speculation

[Sotgnomen]

Couple of things..
First, why do some of you have problems with accepting the opinions of characters in the book? After all, this is a thread for speculation, all we really do is voice opinions of our own. Seeing as we dont have a clue as to the power differences in this world, compared to what the big players in the book must be assumed to know, why not trust their opinions? It's not gospel; Envy might be wrong about the reasons for sending Mok away, but as she seems to be the one we know of with the most current knowledge of Seguleh society, I'll take her opinion over any of yours, no offence:P
That is why I believe Brys to be extremely good with a blade compared to any society, based on Trulls opinion. We base Travellers rep partly on Icariums statement, why not trust the guy who stood toe to toe with him to know his bladework?
By the same token, I believe Mok and the Seguleh first to be as good as, if not better than Brys. Mok took on an undead First Sword, and he ran over the K'ell Hunters. That puts him high up on my skill-scale.
BUT, seeing as they are mortal, even with Brys being MS, that means that if we trust Envy, the First is likely mortal as well.
That puts him high on my sword-skill scale, but low on power. Id have to say that against Karsa, Icarium or Rake he'd be crushed, same as Brys.

Second, a question.. I allways read into the story that Rhulad increased significantly in power and skill each time he died. More than just gaining experience, the sword empowered him more for each time. If not what was the point of all the challenges?
That was why I was so impressed with Brys, considering Rhulad had just fought Iron Bars, and that's why I was extremely impressed with how Karsa handled him, even after all those fights over the years.
Please clarify and correct?

[Aptorian]

Sotgnomen;335890 said:

Second, a question.. I allways read into the story that Rhulad increased significantly in power and skill each time he died. More than just gaining experience, the sword empowered him more for each time. If not what was the point of all the challenges?
That was why I was so impressed with Brys, considering Rhulad had just fought Iron Bars, and that's why I was extremely impressed with how Karsa handled him, even after all those fights over the years.
Please clarify and correct?

This was one of my main problems with RG.

Rhulad was supposed to get better and better for each death. After a decade of fighting challengers and dying at least a hundred times, you'd think Rhulad would be the best damn fighter in the world or at least pretty damn close.

And then he can't even press Karsa? What?

pah!

[L'oric]

Sotgnomen;335890 said:

Couple of things..
First, why do some of you have problems with accepting the opinions of characters in the book? After all, this is a thread for speculation, all we really do is voice opinions of our own. Seeing as we dont have a clue as to the power differences in this world, compared to what the big players in the book must be assumed to know, why not trust their opinions? It's not gospel; Envy might be wrong about the reasons for sending Mok away, but as she seems to be the one we know of with the most current knowledge of Seguleh society, I'll take her opinion over any of yours, no offence:P
That is why I believe Brys to be extremely good with a blade compared to any society, based on Trulls opinion. We base Travellers rep partly on Icariums statement, why not trust the guy who stood toe to toe with him to...
Second, a question.. I allways read into the story that Rhulad increased significantly in power and skill each time he died.
Please clarify and correct?

I wish I can think of a specific time when a character in the series turns out to be wrong about an assumption they have made. My memory says most of these character "errors" in opinion center around or about timelines...which we know to be fluid things. However since characters have been known to be wrong about something I tend to at least have to doubt or quantify much of what is said or remembered but not shown.

As far as Rhulad being a slouch in the department I really do not think he was ever on par with Brys nor could he ever get there. If Fear or Trull had gotten the sword then maybe. Rhulad had a fatal flaw of character...he was mentally weak, and SE loves his swordfighters to be strong in that department. Strangely enough Karsa beating up on Rhulad, or Brys in the throne room means a lot less to me that Trull saying Brys was very good.

I was reading through MOI to find the spot where Envy states her opinion and instead came up on this
pg 242 Krul speaking to Envy
"Hood alone could answer that question, Lady Envy, and he'd likely lie in any case. Dassem, his champion-Dessembrae- had grown to rival his power."

I will keep on looking for the Envy quote about Mok and the First.

[Deragoth]

The First is Redmast.

[Aptorian]

Redmusk

[Sotgnomen]

Aptorian;335910 said:

This was one of my main problems with RG.

Rhulad was supposed to get better and better for each death. After a decade of fighting challengers and dying at least a hundred times, you'd think Rhulad would be the best damn fighter in the world or at least pretty damn close.

And then he can't even press Karsa? What?

pah!

Well, the way I solve that one is he only gets better in relation to the guy he loses to. Otherwise he would not need challengers, he could just have some guy kill him over and over.
So he lost to Iron Bars and maybe got a huge boost. But I got the impression in RG that he's mostly been fighting human champions.. grizzled soldiers and such, maybe a couple of large humanoids.. But surely it would have been mentioned if he had fought an ascendant or somesuch.. Which is what I believe it would take to be even close to on par with Karsa.

[Aptorian]

But it's a pretty lame excuse don't you think

I wanted my epic battle god damn it!

[Lisheo]

Actually it makes sense. If we assume the sword controls his muscles/body, as it seems to, then the sword learns from each enemy it faces. Fighting Iron Bars and Serenity probably taught it a lot, really boosted it, but fighting a few soldiers and old salts does not prepare one for Karsa, who fights like no one else in the series. If that theory is true, then eventually Rhulad would have killed Iccy... When Iccy is in berzerker mode, he just keeps killing without thinking, so eventully the Sword/Rhulad would have gained the experience/strength/skill to kill him.

[Aptorian]

Ten decades and a hundred deaths. Rhulad wasn't fighting peasants and letherii. He was fighting the best fighters of the entire world. And Rhulad had fought giants before.

I just wanted more than a Arrogant Karsa scene. I'd been looking forward to seeing how awesome Rhulad had become for two yeards.

[Lisheo]

Not the best fighters. The best fighters who survived the sorcery, the Edur attacks, disease on the ships, accidents, all of that. Thats chance more than anything, not fate picking the ultimate warriors, really.

[Aptorian]

Karsa and Icarium was treated with upmost respect and curtesy on those ships. And there were healers on those vessels.

The Edur didn't just run about finding wreches. They didn't bring warriors back with them that they didn't believe deserved to face Rhulad. Icariums test was proof of that.

And it wasn't just people they captured either. I'm sure more than a few voluntered to go... the Seguleh 12th among them.

[Lisheo]

We saw one ship though, you cant assume the conditions were the same on every ship. And you have to factor chance into the equation on the battles to begin with. I just dont think Rhulad was facing ppl with skill like say Mok or Tool or Toc the Elder or even Whiskeyjack.