[Terez]

That's not surprising - he's been hinting at that for a while. He did say he would lobby for the books to be released together, though - if not at the exact same time, then only a month or two apart.

[Aptorian]

Not really anything left on my bookshelves I haven't read, so I've begun Book 4: Shadow Rising.

My god these books are slow. 150 pages and everyone is still mopping around inside the Stone of Tears. GET A FUCKING MOVE ON!!!

Also I've realised that for some reason Jordan apparently feels a need to give a POV/chapter of every character before he feels everyone is introduced. This is truly pissing me off.

Also, now begins the weird lovetriangle thing between Rand and the womenz. Yuck.

[Terez]

The Shadow Rising is one of my favorite books ever. And the stuff they're doing in the Stone is important - the girls are trying to figure out which trail to follow, Perrin's trying to figure out if he should go home, and Mat, Rand, and Moiraine have to go visit the Aelfinn.

Also, The Shadow Rising has a strange way of introducing everyone's points of view that he doesn't use in any other book. I liked it, and I dunno why it would piss you off...

[Aptorian]

It's clear that they've got some decisions to make, but I really have to agree with Morgaine. The chicks need to get off their ass and do something, just like Rand.

The reason to why the whole "everyone gets a POV" thing annoys me is that it's not necessary. It's wasted pages that could have taken them out of the stone already, or been used for more interesting or important POVs.

Slowbook is slow.

[Terez]

Aptorian, on Oct 27 2008, 01:43 AM, said:

It's clear that they've got some decisions to make, but I really have to agree with Morgaine. The chicks need to get off their ass and do something, just like Rand.

Yeah, they do eventually (pretty soon). I can understand why you think a lot of it was unnecessary, but there were some hints dropped in those passages with the girls that were important - Moiraine's marriage to Thom, the nature of the Black Ajah Oaths, etc.

[Cougar]

I agree to a certain extent with apt reading Jordan is like sifting for gold, it's long and tedious and even when you find something of value it isn't immediately obvious, sometimes it's like he is testing you. I've come to the conclusion that the 11 books so far could have been around 7 really tight books. I don't know why but in particular there is a section in WH where everyone just seems to be sitting around for about 600 pages, it's gruelling stuff.

I love tSR, it is one of my favorites in the series but I totally sympathise about the section in the stone, it really picks up though later and there is about 200 pages towards the end that are totally compelling.

In one of the other forums someone was arguing that Jordans stuff is really cliched, farmboy messiah etc fatasy stuff, but my impression was always that this was part of the point of what he was doing; ie: the reason you feel like the stuff is really familiar and cliched is that the characters and events are the basis of modern day folklore and legends.

[MecnunK]

Werthead, on Apr 10 2008, 10:25 PM, said:

Those are the UK covers from Orbit. It's quite amusing that Orbit just gave up on the US covers as being utterly unbearable and went with the symbols as being far more tasteful and stylish.

The US covers from Tor, painted by Darrell K. 'Lameass' Sweet, were pretty hideous until they got to Book 11, where Sweet obviously lost the will to live altogether or something:



Remember, this is the kind of shit that Tor was dealing out to their biggest-selling author. The covers they are inflicting on the MBF seem almost mild by comparison.

Thanks , I had forgotten just how awful these covers were.. Perrin seems to have shrunk into a garden gnome in winter's heart..which is fine by me cause he really does suck as a character..or maybe its fail & perin together that set my teeth on edge.. I feel for BS..Damned if you do and damned if you dont. I personally think he should write 2 books as he simply cannot tie up all the crappy plots in one and have any rythem to teh story...

[Terez]

No need to feel sorry for him. He's pretty much thrilled to have the opportunity.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

So against my better judgement, i have finally started reading book 11. I'm a couple of chapters in, and have only wanted to throw the book against the wall once, which is good. See, there's this Aes Sedai, who's just like all the other Aes Sedai. Only, she's different, because she grew up on a farm, and punctuates nearly every sentence with a folksy down-home farm saying, because that's her character development. In Jordan's mind, this sets her completely apart from all the others, like say the Aes Sedai that punctuates every sentence with a folksy down-home fishing saying. See the brilliance of RJ's characters? [/sarcasm]

What is it with these women that after leaving their humble, uneducated roots, moving to the center of knowledge and learning, being surrounded by intelligent women for decades, they still can't learn to not talk like a hick? Oh yeah. Then we wouldn't be able to tell them apart at all. Look, I get it that some people love Jordan regardless of his flaws, I have a soft spot in my heart for some flawed things. However, I will never, ever, ever understand it when someone cites RJ's character building as a strong point.

Palin would make a great Aes Sedai, maybe Red Ajah. She even has the folksy down-home sayings!

This post has been edited by Raymond Luxury Yacht: 28 October 2008 - 03:56 PM

[Falco]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Oct 29 2008, 02:54 AM, said:

However, I will never, ever, ever understand it when someone cites RJ's character building as a strong point.

I hope no one does that. World-building yes, character-building no chance.

[Terez]

I love RJ's characters - I much prefer them to Erikson's. I'm not even sure which Aes Sedai you're talking about...beginning of Knife of Dreams?

[Cougar]

Terez, on Oct 28 2008, 04:17 PM, said:

I love RJ's characters - I much prefer them to Erikson's. I'm not even sure which Aes Sedai you're talking about...beginning of Knife of Dreams?

Ah yes but that is cos' you are a grumpy Aes Sedai, braid pulling type yourself. Eriksons characters are far more interesting and with the exception of a couple too many hardbitten vetrans there is a far greater diversity in their personalities.

RJ alawys comes across as very old fashioned traditional type fantasy, good guys are good bad guys are bad, men are stubborn asses, the women are grumpy with the enfuriating men, but much cleverer. His characters lack subtletey, their personalities are daubbed in big bold colours with only a few like Verin and Mazrim Taim who you aren't quite sure about. Like I said I still love the books (well most of them)I just don't think there's any reasonable way to claim is character construction is superior to Eriksons. I'd put RJ more on a level with Gemmell.

[Abyss]

Terez, on Jun 21 2008, 02:18 AM, said:

I have all of the books in a search engine. ...

Terez, on Jun 21 2008, 11:30 PM, said:

It was a Theoryland collaborative project. I did most of the work for Knife of Dreams, but the rest of it was done when I joined the place. I don't use the search engine very often, though, because I have all the books in html files, and usually when I'm looking for a quote, I know which book to look in, and the ctrl-f function makes it easy to find. I only use Theoryland's engine when I need to search the whole series at once, or words out of order.

Terez, on Jun 21 2008, 11:44 PM, said:

You can't access the search with out a Theoryland premium account, ...

WoT fans win. Seriously, game over go home, WoTies are the biggest fanatics out there. I appluad your fanaticism.



...and mostly i just wanted to use that emoticon...

Illuyankas, on Jun 22 2008, 12:52 AM, said:

But we already have Vaiski.

Hypothetical rep headed your way

Werthead, on Jun 23 2008, 02:42 PM, said:

Interesting, as I've got several friends who've abandoned this website for a very similar reason. You could almost say:

Quote

I've gotten kind of tired of malazanempire lately. you can't discuss a book without getting post upon post making snide remarks about GRRM

...

Seriously?

Terez, on Oct 27 2008, 01:06 AM, said:

That's not surprising - he's been hinting at that for a while. He did say he would lobby for the books to be released together, though - if not at the exact same time, then only a month or two apart.

Yes, but the corporate fat cats are going to go for the tall dollars and space them a year apart. Just watch.

- Abyss, capitalist pig.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Terez, on Oct 28 2008, 09:17 AM, said:

I love RJ's characters - I much prefer them to Erikson's. I'm not even sure which Aes Sedai you're talking about...beginning of Knife of Dreams?

Yukiri. All in one paragraph we are told that "For all her elegance Yukiri seldom let long pass without revealing her country origins" and in the same paragraph we get not one, but two examples. "I know as much about tapestries as a pig knows about blacksmithing," and "I feel like a hen being watched by a fox." I haven't read much past this, I'm sure we are exposed to more of these "gems" every time she speaks, much like the fisherwoman-speak of that other one.

Quotes from page 48 KoD paperback

This post has been edited by Raymond Luxury Yacht: 28 October 2008 - 05:33 PM

[Terez]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Oct 28 2008, 12:32 PM, said:

Terez, on Oct 28 2008, 09:17 AM, said:

I love RJ's characters - I much prefer them to Erikson's. I'm not even sure which Aes Sedai you're talking about...beginning of Knife of Dreams?

Yukiri. All in one paragraph we are told that "For all her elegance Yukiri seldom let long pass without revealing her country origins" and in the same paragraph we get not one, but two examples. "I know as much about tapestries as a pig knows about blacksmithing," and "I feel like a hen being watched by a fox." I haven't read much past this, I'm sure we are exposed to more of these "gems" every time she speaks, much like the fisherwoman-speak of that other one.

Quotes from page 48 KoD paperback

Well, she's not a major character, so I'm not sure what you expect. I don't see how Erikson's minor characters are developed any better. I like Siuan's fish phrases, and they're hardly the sum of her personality - she's a fairly well-developed character (and not as minor as Yukuri).

[Terez]

Abyss, on Oct 28 2008, 12:22 PM, said:

Terez, on Jun 21 2008, 02:18 AM, said:

I have all of the books in a search engine. ...

Terez, on Jun 21 2008, 11:30 PM, said:

It was a Theoryland collaborative project. I did most of the work for Knife of Dreams, but the rest of it was done when I joined the place. I don't use the search engine very often, though, because I have all the books in html files, and usually when I'm looking for a quote, I know which book to look in, and the ctrl-f function makes it easy to find. I only use Theoryland's engine when I need to search the whole series at once, or words out of order.

Terez, on Jun 21 2008, 11:44 PM, said:

You can't access the search with out a Theoryland premium account, ...

WoT fans win. Seriously, game over go home, WoTies are the biggest fanatics out there. I appluad your fanaticism.



...and mostly i just wanted to use that emoticon...

I'm impressed at your quote-finding efforts.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Terez, on Oct 28 2008, 10:57 AM, said:

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Oct 28 2008, 12:32 PM, said:

Terez, on Oct 28 2008, 09:17 AM, said:

I love RJ's characters - I much prefer them to Erikson's. I'm not even sure which Aes Sedai you're talking about...beginning of Knife of Dreams?

Yukiri. All in one paragraph we are told that "For all her elegance Yukiri seldom let long pass without revealing her country origins" and in the same paragraph we get not one, but two examples. "I know as much about tapestries as a pig knows about blacksmithing," and "I feel like a hen being watched by a fox." I haven't read much past this, I'm sure we are exposed to more of these "gems" every time she speaks, much like the fisherwoman-speak of that other one.

Quotes from page 48 KoD paperback

Well, she's not a major character, so I'm not sure what you expect. I don't see how Erikson's minor characters are developed any better. I like Siuan's fish phrases, and they're hardly the sum of her personality - she's a fairly well-developed character (and not as minor as Yukuri).

I don't expect all minor characters to be completely fleshed out to perfection, but the addition of the backwoods phrases seems tacked on and contrived to me, not to mention obnoxious. I feel the same about Siuan.

[Terez]

hmm, contrived. That's how I feel about, for instance, when Quick Ben said something about unleashing 7 warrens or whatever. That was pure cheez.

[Cause]

I have always wanted to ask. Terez as a huge fan of wot and a womn howd did you take to the whole Rand and three women thing? And his female characters in general

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Terez, on Oct 28 2008, 12:13 PM, said:

hmm, contrived. That's how I feel about, for instance, when Quick Ben said something about unleashing 7 warrens or whatever. That was pure cheez.

If you're trying to lash out by insulting an author I like, it's not going to work. I pick apart authors i like at least as much as authors I don't. SE, like ALL authors I like or don't like, has flaws. SE's flaws don't bother me most of the time. RJ's do, almost all of the time. It's all a matter of perception. My perception of RJ is his flaws are so grating as to make it difficult to read his books. My perception of SE is that his flaws aren't as noticeable, and USUALLY don't bother me at all even when I do see them.