[Aptorian]

So I begun the series and I finished the Eye of the World today.

I was positively surprised in that there's a lot of fresh ideas and coolness in the book, even though it's nearly 20 years old. That said, the story just goes on and on and on, like in the 90's all readers wanted to hear about was a couple of kids running from one village to the next with the boogeyman on their heels.

Far too much time was wasted on the trip from Two Rivers to Caemlyn in my opinion and nearly none was afforded to the trip to the Blight and the solution to the rising shadow.

When the final confrontation finally takes place you don't even get a proper explanation. The light just takes control and vaguely described things take place.

I think this book may have one of the weakest endings I've ever experienced.


The world building and the idea of Dark and Light fighting was awesome though. I've been reading so much modern fantasy lately that it was sort of nice to return to a setting where you have two sides, good and evil.

The dark side is great. I was actually thrilled when I found out that instead of reading about Orcs, the Trollocs were beast creatures - all black and flesheating, sweet. And the officers, the fades, cool aswell. Sort of like a dreadlord or something.

The light, the good side, is for once not a bunch of pussies that couldn't fight their way out of a paperbag. The Aes Sedai and the White Cloaks sound formidable. However, I still don't understand how the white cloaks are supposed to be a threat to the Aes Sedai, they don't have their own mages.

The characters, allthough it reads like the lord of the rings, are funny and interesting. I thought any general character development in Mat and Perrin was lacking. It would have been nice to have a PoV from them both after they turned "wolf-man" and "dark-tainted".

All in all, it was a good read, I've got three more on the bookshelf. Here's to the Dragon Reborn.

[Hume]

I recommend stopping at the Dragon Reborn. It is where given a few slight alterations at the end of the book RJ could have actually finished the story off.
Instead it will detoriate in quality from book 6-10 a lot. There is however one of the coolest battles ever written a the end of book 6. Not comparable to Pale, Coral or Chain of Dogs but still pretty awesome.

As to the Chicks, you'll hate Exponentially hate them more and more.
Character devolepment. Mat is the coolest here and does definately grow. The main three guys do grow in character fairly decently.
The world building on the whole isn't too bad either.
You will have to be ready for a lot near pointless or wandering around by some characters as well that goes on for several books.

[Kurt Montandon]

Gods, I can't believe I'm back to discussing the WoT online ... it's like 1997 all over again ...

Anyway, books 1-5 are the strong point. It goes harshly down-hill from there. I believe the battle Hume is talking about is Dumai Wells, which is pretty awesome, though much of the rest of LoC is filler.

The Shadow Rising is actually the high-point, where you really get the hope that Jordan has created an amazing world and deep characters. This hope will be thoroughly crushed by about Book 8, so enjoy it while it lasts. The battles described in TSR and LOC are both pretty good.

There's a little too much of the "Awesome Character Created For Adolescent Fanboys To Imagine Being" in both Mat and Lan, as will become more and more obvious, but that's OK. Just think of Mat as being sort of like Fiddler, and Lan something like Dassem Ultor. Not realistic in either case, but awesome anyways.

Oh, and all of the women turn in to something far beyond even caricatures.

[Hume]

Lan stopped being awesome when he decided to hook with that chick.

A lot the books at times feels like those daytime US soaps like Days of Lives or them other ones like it. All the relationships and even the battles as well kinda. It seems like a soap opera at times. Not like a WWE soap opera, more a Days of our lives Soap opera.

[Kalahinen]

I agree totally with Hume, the books 1 - 3 are the best, and the Wheel should have ended there. And Mat indeed grows to be the most interesting character in the later books. One of the most appealing sides in WoT is the main trio's random fumbling in the world. After Dragon Reborn the story loses something. Also when the main enemies, the Forsaken, who are supposed to be all but omnipotent beings turn out to be pathetic schemers in the later books, the whole consept of The Last Battle suddenly is less great.

I 'read' Crown of Swords recently, quite boring and even the ending was nothing special. Then I started Path of Daggers and gave up after a hundred pages of nonsense.

[Macros]

the women definately piss me off in WoT, either mooning after men or ridicously strong willed, generally the latter, i also hate how

Spoiler

when the forsaken die they're generally not dead at all.

agree that matt becomes interesting, rand gets far too agnst ridden for my liking and perrins just a "meh" factor for me all over
on storyline that could definately have dropped:

Spoiler

failes abduction

[Gem Windcaster]

@ Apt: ironically, the only good thing about the last books are the character development of Mat and Perrin. Especially Mat.

[Aptorian]

It's funny but now that I think about it, there a lot of similarities to the sword of truth in this first novel.

Blood of the fold/Imperial Army = White Cloaks and to an extend Red Ajah

Useless peasant/forest man becomes Seeker = Everyone becomes something else - Dragon, Wolf, Shadow guy, Aes Sedai chicks.

There a great big dark evil, The Keeper but no real opposition = Ba'alzamon who's afraid of swords of light.

Everyone knows more than the main characters and of course nobody wants to share this info.

[Hume]

Actually if you have read Lord of the Rings Yo'll notice the similarities go further back in that novel with both of the stories.

Jordan even claims (unlike Tarry) that he did indeed copy Tolkien for the first part of the first book. Then claims he takes the reader 'somewhere they haven't been before' whatever that means. Most of the ideas still aren't that original even the cultures. The Aiel are a copy of the Desert people in herberts Dune books as well among others too.

[cerveza_fiesta]

wah wah wah...wheel of time is soooo boring and the characters are sooo one dimensional and the 6th book goes nowhere....etc etc etc.

Apt,

despite the huge amounts of negativity I've seen about WoT, I read it, am on the 5th book and really genuinely like it. There are parts that drag on, but in general things are well thought out and the characters are fun. Like you said, after reading a pile of "alternative" fantasy, going back to basics is nice. Go take a look at the "anti doom and gloom for wheel of time" thread and there is actually a lot of positive feedback about the series that made me want to read more.

[Obdigore]

Yes CF, up through book 6 or so, its a very very very good series. After that it seems like RJ just got overwhelmed. He had a lot of arcs that needed to go places, but his writing style dosen't allow them to go places fast.

I certainly recommend the first 6 books, the problem is there is really no ending after the third. So do you just tell someone you are going to want to leave off halfway through the story, even though there is nothing like an ending there, because the books start going downhill at that time?

PS Matt becomes one of the coolest characters around, and Perrin is a good character, in his own way.

[Yellow]

I still don't understand why people think Mat is in any way cool. He's an ignorant dickhead.

Apt, I've read and enjoyed all the books, though some more than others. I think Shadow Rising is the best of the entire series, and Crossroads of Twilight is the worst. Some people hate all the later books, but I think Winter's Heart (9) is actually better than the Dragon Reborn (3), which suffers from the main character barely even appearing in the book.

It's one of those series - big, chunky, and worth devoting some time to... until you don't like to read them any more. Personally, I can't wait for the final book, despite the series' multitude of problems. But god, I challenge any one to write a series that size and not piss a few people off. There's just so much of it.

[Abyss]

Iirc, the Whitecloaks/Children are after 'Darkfriends', not just aes sedai, and they have one small advantage which is that Aes Sedai can't use the power to kill humans (with a few qualifiers that later become even wider). Point being, if they can get past/through the warder, the aes sedai is (marginally) vulnerable (plus an arrow through the body is just as effective if it gets there.

- Abyss, totally enjoyed the first six or so...

[Optimus Prime]

Aptorian;282313 said:

It's funny but now that I think about it, there a lot of similarities to the sword of truth in this first novel.

Blood of the fold/Imperial Army = White Cloaks and to an extend Red Ajah

Useless peasant/forest man becomes Seeker = Everyone becomes something else - Dragon, Wolf, Shadow guy, Aes Sedai chicks.

There a great big dark evil, The Keeper but no real opposition = Ba'alzamon who's afraid of swords of light.

Everyone knows more than the main characters and of course nobody wants to share this info.

I've been of the opinion for several years that Goodkind ripped RJ off in some ways, but keep reading and see what you think.

My thoughts on WoT are conflicted, because I started reading it WAAAAAAY back in the day when it was still new.

Mat is a bad ass, keep reading, you'll love him. Best character in the book IMO. After book 6, the series struggles. There are good to great parts in each book afterward, but there are also moments and sections where you're like "Where is my gun so I can blow my brains out?".

I want to see how Brandon Sanderson ties it up, but RJ should've shortened the series and it truly could've been an all time great series, not just an all time influential series in Fantasy.

[caladanbrood]

I really enjoyed the first 5 books. It's just after that in went downhill Though 11 wasn't bad.

[Optimus Prime]

Yeah, as I said, It's shaky after book 6. I think RJ just lost control of the story pacing. He had all these plots going and they just get too drawn out, still a good read though.

WoT is still better than 90% of the crap out there in the genre.

[caladanbrood]

He married his editor between books 5 and 6 It's not a good idea!

[Optimus Prime]

heh, I've heard this theory before, It may be the reason

If only he could go back and time and re-write them with an Editor who was more critical...sigh

[Werthead]

If you ever wanted to see RJ in the flesh (so to speak) he appears in this mini-documentary about Charleston writers, as does his wife/editor, filmed a few months before his passing. Interesting stuff. RJ drops a spoiler for the last book in there as well.

Brandon Sanderson confirmed on his blog this week that he's started writing Book 12, or rather his part of it.

[Kimloc]

I guess what I liked most about is even though there are set good and evil sides in the book, the characters do change. I thought the character development in WoT was a huge leap forward for the fantasy genre.

First, we had static archetypes as characters in great stories. (Lord of the Rings/Shannara)

Two, we had evolving characters on the sides of good and evil, respectively. Or maybe just on the Light side in WoT. It even had some grayness creep in there, IMHO. The Red Ajah was a goldmine of moral ambiguity or amorality.

Three, we have Erikson/Bakker who have evolving characters in dynamic worlds. And, most interesting to me, is that their growth isn't always positive. I heard a saying once, "Unchecked growth is monstrous." Welp, no worries on that score in MBoTF.

As far as Jordan's pacing, I agree with most of the posts here. Except, I loved Book 6. Book 7 -10 began to bore me. I became more and more irritated that Rand wasn't featured more prominently. No Moiraine, little Rand. Enter Cadsuane, he's on nearly every page.

Anyway, I wish Brandon all the luck in the world in concluding a series that had become a bit tarnished. I'm definitely going to read a Memory of Light.