[Mentalist]

I don't think Laseen should Ascend. We need someone human and capable to run the Empire, after all...
And please, no Kruppe, Pust or Tehol....

[D'rek]

Tehol is running an empire...

[Mentalist]

oh, you know I meant Malazan empire... lol...

[Kurt Montandon]

Quote

Rhulad sits on his throne, the Pannion Seer sat on his chair-like thingamajig, and you can be sure Kellenvad sat on his throne doing seemingly little personal work while he was actively being the emperor.

Actually, no - we get a lot of information that implies that Kellenvad got his hands dirty on a pretty regular basis. NoK and HoC have strong evidence towards this - namely, his cleansing of the Meanas cults in Seven Cities, which Quick Ben sabatoged to a certain degree. As well, he would have had to give orders to the T'lan Imass pretty regularly.

But I generally agree with the gist of the threat - Laseen has a shaved knuckle laying around somewhere, and I don't think it was Pearl. Kalam saw her as being scared in BH, but I think that was incidental - she got scared because she'd hoped that the Adjunct and Kalam would be her secret weapons. Now she'll have to fall back on truly desperate measures, which probably means Topper, or even cooperation with the Crimson Guard.

[Sinisdar Toste]

this sounds like a predictions thread for RotCG

[Mentalist]

yeah, we need one of those.... but hey, If ppl are gonna keep bringing this up, I'lll damn sure keep responding to it... Laseen is NOT all that she seems to be. In MoI, there's a menton that in terms of manipulative politics and deception SHE was the Emperor's tutor...

[Sinisdar Toste]

i hope in RotCG we see laseen doing some major sneaky shit, she needs redemption.

maybe she'll send all the wickans to seven cities in order that they repopulate it and dont get massacred.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

I think without the Adjunct or Kalam, the Empress might actually have to rely on politicking her way out of stuff. She sure as hell lacks the force of arms to make anyone do what she says. that and bloody Mallick Rel getting his freak on in the palace didn't help. But as it stands Laseen I think has had a hand in planning many of the empire-wide issues. Planning, perhaps, but not the down and dirty. Laseen never seems like the type to personally attend the empire, in the fashion of Kellanved.

Compromise will be made, and power will be lost. But she'll end up on top, maybe at great cost, to her, to the empire.

Perhaps we'll see the Malazan ... Federal Republic!

[Candybars]

A quick aside on Whiskeyjack's demotion...

I might be crazy, but I swear that in GotM or MOI a player spefically states that Whiskeyjack was demoted because Laseen was fearful of his popularity with the soldiers. She had him demoted to reduce the risk of him taking the Empire for his own.

However, she was wise enough to know that he was one of her few capable leaders and thus did not hive him put on ice. His demotion to Sergeant was a way to keep him in the lower ranks of the army, but this turned out to be a sham any ways because he was there at every tactical meeting during the Pannion campaign as equals with Dujek.

I tend to be on the fence about Laseen's efficacy. She seems bumbling most of the time - most likely false. But, she does seem genuinely paranoid of loosing what she has attained. I think that it is this fear that drove her decision to for his demotion.

[Raraku]

Wow that would really be a great scene with Lasseen and the leader of the Crimson Guard meeting somewhere secret and forming plans
Also thinking about it in this way ( this is wild speculation on my part ) maybe some of the CrG are with Mallik Rel as per the little sneak preview we got.
Lasseen may seem incompetant and i m also not her biggest fan but being in the presence of some of the biggest names of the time and being one of those names, I m sure she has a shaved knuckle lying around somewhere

[Sindriss]

I really hope she does. Rel needs a kick in the nuts and his head removed afterwards

[Lisheo]

Rel needs his nuts kicked into his head then all of them removed lol.
Imagine if he became the new Emperor.

[Gem Windcaster]

There's a lot of rumors regarding Laseen. I think she remains a mystery. She was claw - I refuse to think she is as stupid as it seems.

(I wouldn't be shocked if Kel and Laseen actually never was enemies in the first place.)

The whole Laseen relationship to the Emipre reminds me of a backward language. She's doing the backward thing all the time. It almost seems deliberate.

What's her purpose?

None of us can argue that having WJ on place against the Pannion was a bad chocie. So since she's not doing bad choices all the time, I'd have to say that there are more to her story than meets the eye.

[Ammanas]

A said:

Under Laseen's rule, the Malazan Empire...

-conquered much of Genebackis, a distant continent no doubt more difficult to reinforce/supply then a near one like 7C, and against foes like the CrimGuard, Tiste Andii and Barghast
-defeated the Elder God SoCN
-defeated the Army of the Apocalypse and reconquered 7C
-defended itself in numerous naval clashes with the Tiste Edur
-(with allies) defeated the Pannion Domin
-and more!

Of course, you're saying "None of that was Laseen, she just sat on her damn throne." Well of course. That's what emperors/empresses do. Rhulad sits on his throne, the Pannion Seer sat on his chair-like thingamajig, and you can be sure Kellenvad sat on his throne doing seemingly little personal work while he was actively being the emperor. By this stream of logic, after conquering Malaz Isle and Unta, Kellenvad become horribly inefficacious and just gave 'approving nods' to Dassem Ultor's, Dancer's, Surly's and Tay's genius.

And of course you'll harp on the fact that she elevated Korbolo and Mallick, after all, she must be so incredibly stupid to let them take such high positions. Well, by the same rote, I would say that Kel and Dancer must have been so incredibly stupid to knowingly go back and get themselves assassinated by Laseen (hint, foreshadowing, hint). She's got a masterful plan and you're all going to see it soon... at least that's what I keep telling myself...

No, what I am saying is; I don't even believe any of those accomplishments were even Laseen's idea. And, no, I've never said I expected the Emperor/Empress to be "hands on" Matter of fact, things seem the worst when she is hands on like in the GoTM prologue with the wax witch debacle which had repercussions in NoK.

And I won't harp on the fact she elevated Rel and Dom--I will harp on the fact that she ALLOWED herself to be put in a position where it is basically necessary. I could harp on the fact she let Coltaine die without sending several hands of Claws, Tays and some elite soldiers to Aren, beat the shit out of Pormqual, and get those 10k troops marching. I sense she has the desire to be remembered as a great empress but I've seen nothing real or foreshadowed that tells me she will be.

[Mentalist]

oh, man... there's an entire world out there. The empire spans 2.5 continents, wages war on others, you have ascendants running around, etc. Coltaine was important, but he wasn't EVERYTHING in the big picture.
Yes, Laseen fucked up--the rise of moronic nobility (I should say, aristocracy, really), is sufficient proof of that. she was on her way to fix things (The Cull, for example), but ran out of time. The claw is NOT all-powerful--hell, on Genabackism, the only formal claw was Toc!
and I'm fairly certain that expanding to korelri and Genabackis WERE Laseen's ideas... so she did things. And I'm sure she has a comeback plan.

[Coco with marshmallows]

james9700;281322 said:

Matter of fact, things seem the worst when she is hands on like in the GoTM prologue with the wax witch debacle which had repercussions in NoK.

you now, i've been thinking about this recently. The cull of the mouse quarter made stopping the stormriders harder - i think we all agree on that.

HOWEVER (the next is my own speculation) - if the mouse hadn't been culled, there would have been an awful lot more power users around on the night of the Shadow moon who might have contested the entry to the Deadhouse. So, perhaps the cull was actually beneficial to Kel and Dancer's long term plans.

Now, how could they cull the mouse without pissing of Obo and the other heavy hitters that reside on Malaz? Easy, have Lasseen cull them, apparently of her own volition.

as i said, it's all speculation on my part, but i think it fits, and i'll stand by it untill SE or ICE writes something that specifically denies it

[Ammanas]

You see, this is awesome. Finally, I can put into one sentence why I love this series. It's because these types of arguments/different POV's/speculations can all co-exist. I can't think of any other fantasy series EVER that has this many threads/posts.

By the way, if I am wrong about Laseen, I will personally start a rep campaign for Karonys/Kud and others.

[Ammanas]

Raraku;280785 said:

Wow that would really be a great scene with Lasseen and the leader of the Crimson Guard meeting somewhere secret and forming plans

YES! Now that would go a considerable distance towards reversing my opinion of her. Lay the annexation of Kazz's lands on Kellanved and ask, "How can I help? Sure, I'll do that but there's two tiny problems--Rel and Dom. She could negotiate some land away in exchange for Rel and Nom dying. Rel may be a priest to Mael but those CrimG mages seem pretty badass--time to break out the diadem.

[Sparkimus]

As far as the age dilemma is concerned, I seem to recall when Fid and co were in the Azath and Gothos offered them water which "contains healing properties as well as 'other' side effects." With the effect of instant force healing, to which Fid mentioned to everyone "not to drink unless it is absolutely necessary," I would imagine that water from the Azath could potentially add to a mortal's lifespan...Which could possibly give reason to the 'founding father's' longevity.

As to the reversal of command, I believe it was two-fold. (1) Demoting those that were a potentail threat could (but really didn't) discredit those involved and somewhat lessend their influence to the empire, and (2) offers her more control over important players and allows her to place certain people with certain abilities where they would be needed most...OR give her the ability to easily put said persons in the line of fire if they are no longer wanted around (see BBs).

[Raraku]

Sparkimus;281358 said:

(2) offers her more control over important players and allows her to place certain people with certain abilities where they would be needed most...OR give her the ability to easily put said persons in the line of fire if they are no longer wanted around (see BBs).

I quite agree with that cause of what Korlat tell WJ that Lasseen demoted WJ and promoted Dujek cause she could handle Dujek but not Wj