[Yellow]

Hi Topper, sorry for taking a while to get back to you. I've been working on a revised draft for chapter 2, so I wanted to get that done before sending it out to you.

Check your emails in about 20 mins

Cheers

Phil

[Topper]

It's quite alright, my computer has been.....disabled for a while. It is all in one piece now; I've got the story and I'm eager to start reading it!! I'll report back to you. Thanks a bunch.

[Topper]

So sorry I haven't replied in a few...months. School started right around the same time I recieved the story so I haven't had much time to read it; with other books and so much school work. I've just recently finished part one. I have never given my opinion on a writing piece before, so I've no idea how to be a critique.

However so far I like it, but I've find it slightly confusing. All the jumping around from character to character is what has me confused. I also do not understand the Gis very well. Perhaps you could explain it more? Or maybe I'm just more simple minded than I thought...

[Topper]

I've now had enough time to fully read the rest of the story. I must say, everything makes much more sense when it is read at one point in time. That is to say, not reading a chapter every few weeks.

I really got into the story toward the end; the last few chapters. Everything makes more sense now; the Gis, and its relationship to the Sha. Also, I now know who is who! a definite improvement.

As I've said and will repeat, I've never been a critique before so I've no idea how to notice things that could be improved.

I'm still intrested in continuing your story. I'd much appreciate if you'd send me the maps.

[Yellow]

Two years later and damn how time flies... For any of you who are still interested at all (millions of you, right?), I have some news:

First draft of the novel is finished I can't believe how long this damn thing has taken me to write (about 4 years I reckon), and it's still only jumped the first hurdle!

Word count came in at 205k, but I expect that to drop considerably (maybe 25%) after the second rewrite, which I will begin next month. Hopefully by July it will be in a state where interested parties will be pestered for their comments and suggestions

Thanks to all who gave advice during the first stages of the writing - looking back at the early work I submitted here, I can really see what all you guys were getting at

And the most important thing... the title. Damn, all this time, and I still haven't fully decided on it! I think the series will be called "The Dance in Ashes" or something similar, but not sure. The novel title: well, I've been wavering between "Balerian Fire" and "Comes the Dawn", neither of which are perfect for various reasons.

So yeah, I'm getting drunk tonight. Cheers!

PS - Topper, if you're still around on these boards, sorry for not replying to your above posts I left the board for about a year, and then forgot about this thread entirely...

[drinksinbars]

haha - you too mate - this old writing bug just wont let up:D

[Chaos]

Congrats to both! Just make sure you've got it backed up. 20 billion times

[Yellow]

Damn right I realised long ago what the most valuable part of a computer is.

[Shryval]

Yellow - muchos congratulations on finishing the novel - now for the easy bit of getting it published Good luck with it mate.

[Yellow]

Cheers I had expected the rewrite to be painful, but not this painful

[Yellow]

Necro!

Sixty, stick stuff in here.

[Sixty]

Huh well I didn't see this before. And I never remember to check the "sent" box. So any subsequent comments will probably be coming here, I guess.

[Yellow]

Sixty, I just replied to your PM. I also never click the "sent" box So feel free to paste the whole thing in here, if you want.

I'll read your piece tomorrow and Saturday. You should start your own thread for feedback.

edit - a note about the underlining and em dashes (which will all become clear once Sixty posts the reply, honest). I think I misunderstood what you were asking me. Basically, a lot of agents, particularly those who take electronic subs, don't particularly care about underlining vs italics, as long as the ms is in a format that's easy to read.

But some still do, and some will ask specifically for italics (though these are rarer, and I don't think I've ever come across them). Changing from italics to underlining (or vice versa) is an absolute doddle to do in Word, so no worries about formatting while you're writing.

This post has been edited by Yellow: 18 June 2009 - 06:58 AM

[Yellow]

Here is sixty's crit (hope you don't mind me posting it in here...) Anyone else has any comments, please use this thread, ta!

Quote

I like it. First thing. Good pacing.

Comments:

I don't like when you have "blah blah," he spat. Feels a little awkward to me.

A couple spots, like:

Quote

The figure ceased his pacing and turned to the Delanok, anger in his cold face.

You could probably show stuff like that. I've found that I use facial expressions a lot in my writing (probably too much lol) but I feel it's a better way of communicating emotion.

Dialogue seems fine, though. But I think almost all dialogue is fine (unless it's really cheesy) so that might not be much help. Seems cohesive; intriguing. Something I'd want to keep reading.

On a semi-unrelated note, is the underlining instead of italicizing and non-use of em dashes a big deal? Because having to revise all that later would be annoying.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and send you my own prologue. It's divided into 2 parts with 2 PoV's, so it might be a little confusing or whatnot. Let me know what you think. =)

[Yellow]

Posting Gamet's comments as well.

Quote

Very good, I liked that. I have highlighted the parts I thought worked particularly well, giving strong imagery whilst remaining succinct – and I like that. The characters were good (the whole piece is not long enough to get any kind of detail, of course) and it was good that you didn’t just give me a clichéd bad guy with evil intentions. I expect you are as much a fan of “grey” characters as I am

You didn’t overdo the whole thing, although I wonder if there would be any value in considering making it a little longer with a bit more information about what is going on? I understand the HUGE importance of having a brilliant opening line, paragraph and page (the Hook, if you like) and leaving the reader with a few questions he really wants the answer to. I am not certain I got that in the end.

Perhaps the opening three sentences are too blatant, in that regard, with the third in particular asking an actual question. It invites the reader to do so, yes, but I have no reason yet to ask where he is. I don’t know if that makes sense to you? I suppose I mean that if you find a way to hint at the uncertainty of where he is – without actually writing those words – then I would be drawn (as the reader) to ask it in my own head.

Let me know what you think of that.

Regardless, I am sure you could write a more instantly gripping opening to this, imho.

The last line felt cheesy to me, as it was a line I guess I have read a hundred times before (I think I have done it myself!) to tell me someone has died. After all, you just told me he has died many times before, so, would the last line be true? Could there be something else?

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Too much weight sits with this untimely interruption.

The dialogue is believable, except perhaps for the line I highlighted green. I always fear the danger of being too vague in order to be mysterious, which is what I meant about giving me just a little more info.

Nice, though. I would want to read more.

Yeah, I have to agree with you on that green bit of dialogue. Clunky and awkward. As for the last line... that was actually put in at the last rewrite, as I felt the line of dialogue at the end was not enough to end the scene. I wasn't sure if it was working, and I guess you agree.

It's interesting that you pick out the beginning/opening. I understand what you're saying. Having said that, when this prologue was first written, it was about three times the length it is now. It started with the Delanok approaching the temple in the jungle, complete with all the scene setting and his internal monologue... it wasn't until about half way through that we got to where it begins nowadays.

I got a lot of feedback on the prologue (most of the book us up to the fifth rewrite, but the prologue must have been done about ten times at least), and it was pretty clear that I was starting too slow, taking too long to get to the action. These days, I agree with those comments, and I like the way it runs now. Abrupt beginning, joining the story just as the Delanok is gathering his senses. I can understand why maybe it wasn't to your liking, but I do like it (pretty much) how it is--especially the first couple of lines. So ner

As for the grey characters - definitely. There aren't really any "bad guys" in the book, and won't be in the rest of the series. There's people who do bad things, but they do it because they're greedy and selfish and human and that's just the way they are. I always want the reader to sympathise with the POV they're reading at the time. They might not agree with them, but at least they can understand where they're coming from.

I hope I've managed to do that, anyway.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Ok finally managed to read it, sory for the delay, and although it may seem a bit lame, especially seeing how I asked you to send me your WiP for feedback, I can't think of very much to say. THe Prologue is actually what I think a Prologue should be: an intriguing piece that sets the evnt of the story and make you wonder what the hell went on. I didn't mind the mysterious tone, in fact I liked it, but maybe just a small,minuscule, oblique bit of explanation/information could have been put in, jst so we aren't completely in the dark.As for the last line, yes it's overused, but whocares? It works.
Hope to give you more feedback with the next chapter if , of course, you want to send it to me

[Yellow]

Thanks for taking the time, Bauchelain (I may refer to you as Bork from now on; it's easier ). Was there anything in particular you felt you needed more info about, or was it a general kind of thing? I'm just thinking it might be a bit difficult to fix the latter, but might be able to do something about the former quite easily.

I'll send out chapter one to you guys, see what you think. Cheers!

[Yellow]

Fist Gamet, on Jun 25 2009, 06:40 PM, said:

RESPONSE TO CHAPTER ONE


I enjoyed that. Compared to the prologue I thought that was much better. The dialogue remains strong and believable, although the characters feel a bit flat at the moment. I think building real depth into a character remains the most difficult thing to do in writing, and it’s a hard thing to define. I get a little sense of Yanish, and what he is like, but beyond the grizzled, world-weary veteran soldier there isn’t much. His old friend talks of his ‘endless enthusiasm’ but that doesn’t sit with the rest of it…

it felt like a thousand leagues
mostly just wished he was dead
If they lasted that long

That’s pretty depressing stuff. I get the feeling that he is a kind of father figure and he feels a duty towards the younger soldiers to keep their spirits up. Fair enough. If this is so, might it be that he is struggling to maintain a well-practised front for them? Would he let that guard down when he leaves the tent? Would he keep it up in when he meets his old friend, or might be reveal his fears?

Depressing? Good Yanish is one of the four main characters in the book (the others being Pir, Orme and Vos... the other two you meet next chapter). I try not to hit the reader over the head with what I'm trying to do with each character, so I'm not sure if I succeeded and that's good, or I succeeded and that's bad, or if I just failed! Would Yan talk to Tarsin about his feelings? Possibly, I suppose. But he doesn't realise Tarsin is about to take something nasty, so he isn't rushing to pour his heart out to him.

I dunno, if you're up to reading the next few chapters, see how it goes... Yanish basically is a fairly weary man who's had enough of the slog. He has spent months knowing that they're all on borrowed time, and he's pretty much reconciled himself to that. But things change, and he has to deal with that. The main characters all go through upheaval, and I haven't tried to set them in stone from the outset. They all change over time, though perhaps one or two manage to get back where they started. The others, not so much.

Quote

Pir is an old soldier, grown tired and wise in his years, become a General. He has a sense of humour though. I haven’t really gotten anything else about him.

If they are not main characters then I suppose it doesn’t matter too much, but I wonder if there is any benefit in making these parts longer, or maybe you return to them soon.

I take your point. Pir did originally have more space in this first chapter, but the scenes were a bit weak and overly long, so I cut them. I will take another look at this with more of a critical eye.

The book generally (not always) tends to focus on two characters per chapter. Pir and Yanish's stories are intertwined, as are Orme's and Vos's. They are all linked, and it all comes together in the final part of the book. So yeah, Yan and Pir are main characters.

I think Pir was the hardest to write, actually. I struggled a little later on to get across what happens to him through the book and still have him be interesting and not a whiney bitch. I'd be interested to find out what you think of that.

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I realise this all comes from my own belief that stories should be character-driven and that the characters are the most important element of the story (some don’t, with the entire Star Wars series being the prime example of using characters to fit into and tell a story, as opposed to the story of the characters)

Immediately after Chakta’s demise, when I am curious about who the Three Proxies are, you tell me more about them. I see this in two ways. Firstly, it works by giving me immediate payback for my curiosity, but on the other hand, you might consider keeping this little revelation until later on. I think a couple more scenes or references to the mystery of the proxies, and also some reference to the Delanok (just so I have some idea if they are good or bad or whatever) before this scene would give the revelation greater impact. Yes, we want mystery followed by a payout, but not right away, imo.

Well, chronologically, the scene has to stay where it is (because Chatka's replacement as Maghin needs to be in place very early on in the book). In terms of mystery/payout, I think you might have a point. But what I didn't want to do was have people forget all about the Delanok before I brought him back. This is the last scene from the Delanok's POV.

Quote

In all, I was impressed and my comments are minor issues. It was actually hard to find fault as I thought the story was going to be interesting enough to keep me reading. I wonder what kind of story you are writing, though? Is this an epic, high-fantasy, multi-POV tale of wars scorching across continents? Or are we heading into small-group, quest-driven territory?

Thanks for the complements I do find it hard to say what type of fantasy it is. Later books are definitely more epic than this first one, but it does centre around armies (though small ones) crossing continents. It also has a small-squad vibe as well. I hope there's a mix.

This post has been edited by Yellow: 26 June 2009 - 07:07 AM

[Yellow]

Thought I'd post the blurb I wrote a while back. Would you want to read this book?

Quote

It is a time of peace. The Untaran uprising has been shattered; the renegade Garrum Maurin and the last dregs of his army are routed. They flee north, but the Llensman council have sent Merophen Pir, their most decorated general, in pursuit. He will follow over ice and oceans, will cross the world itself to bring his oldest friend--and most bitter rival--to justice.

But Pir is not alone in his desire for Maurin’s head. Vos, an assassin trained by the oldest and most secretive of the Tienene orders, has instructions to head east, to deal with the Untaran renegade once and for all. But first, she must cross paths with a band of Bautrelli warrior mages, the infamous Dying Suns, whose objectives are shrouded in mystery and deceit, hidden even from their newest recruit.

The Balerian jungles care little for western politics, or the rivalry of old friends. They hide their secrets well, but they cannot hide forever. Old, dark enemies are on the move, plotting their revenge on a world they crave for their own. The time for hiding, the time of peace, is over.

The time for Balerian fire draws near.

[Tapper]

Yellow, on Jun 26 2009, 09:30 AM, said:

Thought I'd post the blurb I wrote a while back. Would you want to read this book?

Quote

It is a time of peace. The Untaran uprising has been shattered; the renegade Garrum Maurin and the last dregs of his army are routed. They flee north, but the Llensman council have sent Merophen Pir, their most decorated general, in pursuit. He will follow over ice and oceans, will cross the world itself to bring his oldest friend--and most bitter rival--to justice.

But Pir is not alone in his desire for Maurin’s head. Vos, an assassin trained by the oldest and most secretive of the Tienene orders, has instructions to head east, to deal with the Untaran renegade once and for all. But first, she must cross paths with a band of Bautrelli warrior mages, the infamous Dying Suns, whose objectives are shrouded in mystery and deceit, hidden even from their newest recruit.

The Balerian jungles care little for western politics, or the rivalry of old friends. They hide their secrets well, but they cannot hide forever. Old, dark enemies are on the move, plotting their revenge on a world they crave for their own. The time for hiding, the time of peace, is over.

The time for Balerian fire draws near.

I would read it!

As a minor point: I would like a mention of the newest recruits name if it is someone other than Vos infiltrating the Suns. If you wrote that sentence just to show how secretive the Dying Suns are, and don't present a (major) PoV from within their organisation, I'd personally go for:

the infamous Dying Suns, whose objectives are shrouded in mystery and deceit, known only to their upper echelons.