[Dunsparrow]

I feel like there's a significant analogy in the first scene that I'm missing. The portions that I feel are important are the leash on the dead dog, the numerous pointed looks at the dog, and the multiple mentions of time repeating (and then not repeating).

SE rarely repeats himself without a reason, and I feel like there's some deep metaphorical meaning to the scene (although maybe we're not meant to understand it yet). Thoughts?

[tiam]

Imperial Historian;273960 said:

Technically know as it was the night of the shadow moon and all of malaz island was technically part of shadow for that night at least.

The fact that it looks to be hood's realm isn't a problem, as if it's on the border of shadow edgewalker could be there, so it could be a boundary realm between hood's realm and shadowthrones. This makes sort of sense being neutral ground an all, ST and hood don't strike me as being trusting enough to walk into the heart of the others power, or let another walk into the heart of there's.

also it seems to b on the outskirts or possibly an obscure place maybe even in the nascent. Seems that ST doesnt know where they are and Hood seems a bit obscure in describing it. Also isnt the nascent a fragment of shadow anyway if it is indeed the nascent.

Further more it may be the nascent as that is the direct link.

Nascent is shadow fragment (if wrong plz stop me.) that leads to Hold version of Hoods realm. So this explains that EW can go there and can be a mitigator.

[Jason]

Sinisdar Toste;273427 said:

couldnt the wagon also have its shadow in the shadow realm? panek says they all cast shadows, how much "they all" are we talking about?
.

That's probably more like it now that I think of it (rep!). I think this insight also gives us a better understanding of Edgewalker and what "edge" he is walking as well as the nature of the shadow realm.

After reading SE letter Hetan posted it seems pretty obvious that it is indeed Rakes Wagon coming up the road.

[Kimloc]

Being pretty new to the series, I just read the prologue today, before my earlier post. My first impression was, crazy as it might sound, that those two people were dreaming. I know they're dead and dead people prolly don't dream but..the way it was written with the guy saying there were 3 soldiers who didn't know each other and they left 1 by 1. Then he says everything gets repeated day after day. And the woman saying she never owned a dog before and agreeing this place was more confusing than life. Then Hood/Edge/ST arriving jacked up the surreal meter way high and shot down my dream theory.

Since the two are obviously dead, my new conclusion was this place is purgatory. I don't how it is tied to shadow if Edgewalker is truly restricted to the shadow warren.

[Seed]

I don't see why everyone is getting so excited that Edgewalker is there. The Grey Hooded Man™ states that places like the village they are in are ubiquitous...as in being everywhere at the same time.

I believe this particular village exists in multiple warrens at once all the way down to a physical representation in the Malaz world, probably some squalid little village near the 7Cities somewhere. The aura of neglect, forgetfulness, a village of the lost and forgotten or perhaps some incident in the past has burnt it through the warren layers and versions of it are existing in quite a few warrens at the same time each seperated only by tissue thin insubstantial barrier from the warren side of things. (I can't help but think of the descriptions from GotM and MoI when mages opened their warrens there was a sense of opening or penetrating through many veil-like layers, almost like the walls of each warren are a layered skin of their own aspected power...like a power onion. Are warrens like ogres? (j/k) the more layers passed the deeper into the warren and further from the real world you get) Hmm it could actually be the filtering mechanism for the whole warren structure where it absorbs chaos energy and filters it inwards to itself, aspecting it as the energy is absorbed through the walls and into the warrens...dialysis tubing if you will...but I digress.

The ghosts are on the hood layer, edgewalker and shadowthrone et al are on the shadow layer hence why the ghosts can't be seen. Although depending on the power of the being and how many warrens they have access to it's quite possible they can see hints of things on other layers in the same place, hence the glance at the dog, although what he was seeing probably still wasn't exactly what was what the ghosts were seeing.

Anyway that the direction my thoughts are going lately regarding the first section of the prologue.

[Mentalist]

Seed, take a look at my post # 108, that seems to have gone ssadly neglected... how farfetched is my idea?

[Jorram]

@Seed - I think ubiquitous here means that you can find such places often, at many places. Not meaning that they are everywhere at the same time (omnipresent).

This is also conveyed by the contempt in the voice of the grey person. Were they such special places (omnipresent), they would certainly not be so non-special, useless, etc.

[Tarr]

What about those places that keep appearing in the shadow realm (e.g.the longhouse minala and her kids lived in) they keep getting pulled in from other realms.

It may also explain the ghost's as there are plenty of them in the shadow realm and the shadow realm is ubiquitous...

[Jason]

Been wondering about the hidden meaning of the fighting dogs right at the beginning of the prologue.

Had an idea. Not completely convinced on this one but thought I might throw it out there.

Perhaps its an analogy where the dogs are like mortals and the humans/ghosts who hold their leashes are the gods. In reality it is the mortals who want to fight and the gods are rather companionable. The dogs fight and suffer and die, those who hold their leashes go on and on day after day repeating.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i like that metaphor jason. very profound. repd

[Dunsparrow]

Jason;276416 said:

Been wondering about the hidden meaning of the fighting dogs right at the beginning of the prologue.

Had an idea. Not completely convinced on this one but thought I might throw it out there.

Perhaps its an analogy where the dogs are like mortals and the humans/ghosts who hold their leashes are the gods. In reality it is the mortals who want to fight and the gods are rather companionable. The dogs fight and suffer and die, those who hold their leashes go on and on day after day repeating.

that's very good thinking. That part of the story has been driving me the most crazy, and I asked for opinions but no one seemed to respond besides you!

I think you're on the right track, although I feel like there's even more specific significance. The man has an unused leash...perhaps like a god with no more followers? Putting a leash on the dead dog must have meaning too...maybe related to hood?

At any rate, the "disgust" comment could certainly be relating to the squabbling of mankind, your theory is a good one

[Wry]

Maybe it's simpler than that... perhaps this is the book where the deragoth and the Hounds of Shadow finally come face to face.

[Set'alahd Crool]

An interesting theory indeed. Let's expand it a bit.

The dead priest seems to have been there longer and he lets his dog roam free of its leash, where as the woman is a recent arrival who wants to keep her dog leashed and maintain control over it.

Elder Gods vs New anyone?

[Sinisdar Toste]

the dogs represent mortals who always want to fight and the gods are the ones holding the leashes (the woman representin new gods) but without any real control (the man representin elder gods?). in reality the gods are indifferent to the quarrels of mortals, but get dragged along when they are too "hands-on" (the woman again, representin d'rek, the errant etc.), which is definitly a recurring theme of SE's work.

i just posted this in the message from steve thread, got the idea from jason. but now edited it a bit to fit in the elder god vs. new dichotomy.

[Abyss]

Jason;276416 said:

...
Perhaps its an analogy where the dogs are like mortals and the humans/ghosts who hold their leashes are the gods. In reality it is the mortals who want to fight and the gods are rather companionable. The dogs fight and suffer and die, those who hold their leashes go on and on day after day repeating.

Interesting theory - but perhaps the reverse is true.

We saw a theme in TB about gods being at the mercy of their worshippers.
Maybe it's the humans who want to fight and the gods who want none of it.

- Abyss, notes that on the other hand, you have five more fingers...

[MegaLeafs]

Thoughts after reading Steve's letter. The hooded figure is Anomander.

Edgewalker is there to mitigate - to lessen in force or intensity - of something. The hooded figure not being revealed by name really doesn't scream the figure being Hood to me but is of equal height with Edgewalker another Tiste?

"this has been a long time coming" and the curt response "you may think so, Edgewalker" well we all knew Draginpurs(sp?) days were numbered. So is Edgewalker there to mitigate the damage of breaking the sword or stopping the wagon?

"Disgust," that one word says to me its not a "bad guy" but someone tired and ready for a change.

They are in an overlapping realm thats for sure we have shadow and death there, Jade as well that usually involved with the negation or imprisonment, its a useless and timeless realm, and Shadowthrone is in on whatever is happening although I don't see how he fits in but he is usually involved in everything somehow, but the hounds sure did mess with the wagon before. Doesn't that seem as good a place as any to break the sword or stop the wagon?

The cart coming isn't for the dead lady as Steve said, and the next couple scene's take us to the slowing of Dragnipur and reminder about Draconus whatever he's bringing to the table, no idea, Apalara is in but only really relay's to the reader more info on the hounds escaping and the slowing of the wagon.

So I put forward the hooded one is Anomander! He is ready to deal with Dragnipur and from what was stated that the events of this book will have profound implications, how about all that Chaos catching the wagon what was supposed to happen when that happens anyways? I forget.

[Mentalist]

Chaos would then get the gate tot he heart of KG, proceed to consume it, and become th emost powerful force, shattering the balance of creation


I think

[Zanth13]

MegaLeafs;276981 said:

Thoughts after reading Steve's letter. The hooded figure is Anomander.

Edgewalker is there to mitigate - to lessen in force or intensity - of something. The hooded figure not being revealed by name really doesn't scream the figure being Hood to me but is of equal height with Edgewalker another Tiste?
"this has been a long time coming" and the curt response "you may think so, Edgewalker" well we all knew Draginpurs(sp?) days were numbered. So is Edgewalker there to mitigate the damage of breaking the sword or stopping the wagon?

"Disgust," that one word says to me its not a "bad guy" but someone tired and ready for a change.

They are in an overlapping realm thats for sure we have shadow and death there, Jade as well that usually involved with the negation or imprisonment, its a useless and timeless realm, and Shadowthrone is in on whatever is happening although I don't see how he fits in but he is usually involved in everything somehow, but the hounds sure did mess with the wagon before. Doesn't that seem as good a place as any to break the sword or stop the wagon?

The cart coming isn't for the dead lady as Steve said, and the next couple scene's take us to the slowing of Dragnipur and reminder about Draconus whatever he's bringing to the table, no idea, Apalara is in but only really relay's to the reader more info on the hounds escaping and the slowing of the wagon.

So I put forward the hooded one is Anomander! He is ready to deal with Dragnipur and from what was stated that the events of this book will have profound implications, how about all that Chaos catching the wagon what was supposed to happen when that happens anyways? I forget.

I like your theory very much... the only problem I have is since when has Edgewalker been a confirmed Tiste anything...

all we know about him (unless im missing something) is that he is very old, elementalish and connected to shadow...

I dont think its ever been stated (or hinted) that he is a Tiste...

other then that wow, I never even conisidered it being Rake. I am gonna have to think about that for a while..

[Kurt Montandon]

Why would Rake bother concealing his features?

He's not exactly subtle.

As well ... my theory as to the identity of the other mysterious character - the grey man in Kruppe's dream - is the Tyrant of Darujhistan. Erikson merely said we hadn't met this person, not that we'd never heard of him. And I strongly suspect the Tyrant's story is more complicated than "despot that was overthrown," that's likely just the revisionist narrative.

Or maybe it's another formerly hiding Elder God.

[dktorode]

I dont see any reason why Rake would be wearing a hood.
This is obviously Erikson telling us that it is indeed hood who is there.
Its just taken from the perspective of a person who wouldn't know that they are in fact looking at Hood...THE Hood

I dont think we need to look so deep.

So Hooded figure = Hood
Don't see any reason to believe otherwise, just doesnt make sense.