[Vengeance]

Ok I just found and posted this in another thread but I think that it might also apply to the cover art.

MoI us edition 231

Quote

" We fled, a handful of survivors. Ryllandaras, old friend - we fell out clashed, then clashed again on another continent. He had gone the farthest, found a way to control the gifts - Soletaken and D'ivers both. White Jackal. Ay'tog. Agkor."

and
231/232

Quote

"The White Jackal had vanished into mists centuries past, dead, or if not dead, then as good as. Treach had driven him from a ledge, sent him spinning and writhing down into hte fathomless crevasse. No enemies worthy of the name since then. The tiger's arrogance was legendary - it had not been difficult, embracing such assurity"

No based on those I am going to say that the white dog might be Ryllandaras, and if he is a soletaken who is also a D'iver then the other animals might be his D'iver parts. The reason that they look black could be from how the shadows were hitting them.

Ok so I just realized that this is about the 4th time that he has been brought up. So ignore....

[Ammanas]

Isn't it obvious? Kruppe is the Queen of High House Dark!

Seriously, I'm in the Kruppe is definitely not a God or most likely not an ascendant either camp.

p 465 GOTM "Lorn smiled as the fat man attempted to open a warren and failed. The fat man, eyes widening, promptly rolled over the mule's rump and lands heavily in the dust." She could have easily perforated him.

Prior to Kruppe leading the mission to the Gadrobi Hills, Krul appears in Kruppe's dream cautions him to "step carefully." Kruppe replies " Kruppe always steps carefully."

Might sound crazy but if I were Shadowthrone I would be heavily recruiting Kruppe--he's obviously super intelligent and the Eel's talents could definitely be an asset to High House Shadow.

[flea]

james9700;266781 said:

Might sound crazy but if I were Shadowthrone I would be heavily recruiting Kruppe--he's obviously super intelligent and the Eel's talents could definitely be an asset to High House Shadow.

yes, then we can get a scene with Pust and Kruppe. Throw Tehol into the mix and Brood might use his hammer on himself.

[caladanbrood]

I would. I really would.

[Aptorian]

james9700;266781 said:

Isn't it obvious? Kruppe is the Queen of High House Dark!

Seriously, I'm in the Kruppe is definitely not a God or most likely not an ascendant either camp.

p 465 GOTM "Lorn smiled as the fat man attempted to open a warren and failed. The fat man, eyes widening, promptly rolled over the mule's rump and lands heavily in the dust." She could have easily perforated him.

Prior to Kruppe leading the mission to the Gadrobi Hills, Krul appears in Kruppe's dream cautions him to "step carefully." Kruppe replies " Kruppe always steps carefully."

Just a point.

Ottataral affects new gods the same way it does mages, so that's not actually evidence against Kruppe being a mage. ST couldn't use his powers when he held Kalams knives (I thought that was pretty lame by the way )

[Jorram]

Chainsaw said:

I read this a bit differently than most, I guess. As the "fourth" party approaches, it seems that all the others (priest and lady included) turn and face that direction... the priest, after all, is the one who actually announces it. But then... there is a sudden rumble from BEHIND the party, because the lady actually physically turns to look at the "sudden rumble of carriage wheels". She is also noticeably familiar with the approaching carriage.

OK, on another reread and despite my initial acceptance of this idea, I'm not so sure now.

1) The Hounds gaze in the direction of the main street and it is from there that the fourth individual is expected.

Quote

All at once the Hounds returned, hackles raised, gazes keen on something far up the main street.
“One more,� whispered the priest. “One more and the last, yes.�

2) The quote with the carriage:

Quote

From the hills, thunder and jade rain slashing down like the arrows from ten thousand battles. From down the street, the sudden rumble of carriage wheels.

On the one hand, SE uses different adverbs for the two - the newcomer is "up the main street", while the carriage is "down the street". On the other hand the latter could still refer to the same direction, because it is juxtaposed to the hills (that are supposedly the other, out-of-the-city direction). The turning of the woman could easily be from gazin towards the street to meet the eyes of the other man.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i know who the grey haired man is! thom merrilin!

[Aptorian]

Anyone got an opinion on this quote from the Dragnipur part:

Quote

Onward, onward, even as the storm behind them drew closer, cloud piling on cloud, silver and roiling and shot through with twisting spears of iron. Ash had begun to rain down on them,...]

What are spears of iron doing inside a pure power cloud/magical storm of chaos?

[Sinisdar Toste]

i took this to just be a descriptor of the storm, iron in colour maybe, not make-up

[Aptorian]

You mean they are iron colored lightning charges?

I guess that might be right, perhaps I took the meaning a bit too litteral.

[Sinisdar Toste]

basically,

what i wanna know is where the ashes are coming from in the storm,

dead bodies?

[caladanbrood]

General magery - chaos portal devouring the mini-warren, possibly.

[Khellendros]

Ok, my thoughts:

1) Has anyone mentioned that Shadowthrone, Edgewalker, and the third dude (who I don't think is Hood) don't seem to be able to see the dead man and woman? It's a bit like how in one of the other books Cotillion realises that there are loads of things in Shadow which he (and presumably Shadowthrone) can't see, though others, like the Hounds and Panek could.

2) The fighting dogs definitely seem to be signifying something to me, though unknown as yet. A bit like the Nachts with Withal on the Crippled God's isle in MIdnight Tides.

3) Kruppe's 'witness' suggests two things to me:

a) Karsa will play an extremely pivotal role in whatever happens...and possibly his last.

It also sounds like the events have already happened, i.e. Kruppe is about to recount the events of Toll the Hounds - like Trull was supposedly doing for Midnight Tides. This lends credence to Kruppe being the narrative voice. This in turn suggests to me that unlike with Midnight Tides, where scenes of Trull telling the story where never mentioned, we may in this book get scenes, like intervals, throughout Toll the Hounds with Kruppe, K'rul, and the third guy briefly discussing what Kruppe has just told them. Possibly.

[Optimus Prime]

Aptorian;267107 said:

Anyone got an opinion on this quote from the Dragnipur part:



What are spears of iron doing inside a pure power cloud/magical storm of chaos?

I took it to be just a general description of how crazy and chaotic the inside world of the sword is...

I have a feeling that whatever passes for reality within the sword is quite....insane.

[Reborn]

I don't know if you have made this connection regarding Ditch yet but in case you haven't:

[qoute]He had once been a wizard of Pale, driven by desperation into betrayal.[/qoute]
At the siege of Pale in the beginning of Gardens of the Moon I remember that Rake was allied with the rulers (or at least some influential people in Pale) who then betrayed him by fleeing the city. I recall Anomander Rake stating in a conversation with Baruk that these betrayers earned nothing but Dragnipur. One was not aware of the significance of that sword yet but I very much remember Baruk's shocked reaction. I think it's possible that Ditch is one of those unlucky guys who fled their own city and therefore betrayed the allegience with Rake and earned Dragnipur.

[Optimus Prime]

Well we already knew that, didn't we? The two wizards that escaped Dragnipur were delivered to Rake via Baruk. Ditch was obviously not one of those

[Jason]

In the first scene they are in a fragment of Shadow. The four guys meeting are those who have tried to rule the shadow realm. In BH EW mentions how ST wasn’t the first to think him self god of shadow. Besides, EW can’t leave shadow and there is no way in the world even crazy old ST would step foot in Hoods place.

The Jade rain illustrates how the events with the jade giant has had repercussions throughout the warrens.

Second scene. The one thing I took out of that is minor. It is how Aspalar mentioning how she remembers Ganoes face. Makes me think even more now that Paran and Sorry are going to hook up. The two Aspalars just have to meet.

Third Scene: Definitely Karsa’s children. Don’t worry about the timeline kids! Just go with it!

Finally, “witness.� Kruppe, has a cunning plan and Karsa is part of it.

[Reborn]

Yeah, I just noticed that you had already made the connection. Sorry.

I think I should read the prologue a bit more thorouhgly tomorrow. I actually just read it for the first time after being away without Internet the whole damn weekend. I'm always a master at that thing called timing.

I really liked the prologue, though. It was very good speculation-material.

[Optimus Prime]

Reborn;267289 said:

Yeah, I just noticed that you had already made the connection. Sorry.

I think I should read the prologue a bit more thorouhgly tomorrow. I actually just read it for the first time after being away without Internet the whole damn weekend. I'm always a master at that thing called timing.

I really liked the prologue, though. It was very good speculation-material.

It's all good. Yah I'm planning a re-read tonight. I liked it as well, though I missed the "distant past" flashback we've come accustomed to in the prologues...I love those.

It was a great prologue in that it really drives us nuts with glimpses and teases of what's to come.....

[Tattooed Hand]

Khellendros;267180 said:

Ok, my thoughts:

1) Has anyone mentioned that Shadowthrone, Edgewalker, and the third dude (who I don't think is Hood) don't seem to be able to see the dead man and woman? It's a bit like how in one of the other books Cotillion realises that there are loads of things in Shadow which he (and presumably Shadowthrone) can't see, though others, like the Hounds and Panek could.

2) The fighting dogs definitely seem to be signifying something to me, though unknown as yet. A bit like the Nachts with Withal on the Crippled God's isle in MIdnight Tides.

3) Kruppe's 'witness' suggests two things to me:

a) Karsa will play an extremely pivotal role in whatever happens...and possibly his last.

It also sounds like the events have already happened, i.e. Kruppe is about to recount the events of Toll the Hounds - like Trull was supposedly doing for Midnight Tides. This lends credence to Kruppe being the narrative voice. This in turn suggests to me that unlike with Midnight Tides, where scenes of Trull telling the story where never mentioned, we may in this book get scenes, like intervals, throughout Toll the Hounds with Kruppe, K'rul, and the third guy briefly discussing what Kruppe has just told them. Possibly.

I definitely think it's no accident that SE has Kruppe echoing Karsa's catch phrase. But I wonder if the echo is to give the reader a sense of what Kruppe is about to do, i.e. kick some ass, but the way Kruppe, not Karsa, does, through some elaborate plan that outwits everyone and manages to manipulate events on a large scale.

From the last scene I also think that the grey and gaunt guy by the fire is also the bard Kruppe saw earlier at Krul's bar because he finishes the lyric that Kruppe can't remember.

And finally, I think that Kruppe is about to layout his plan to save Daruhjistan again. These dreamscape fireside moments generally function narratively as where Kruppe gathers information or works things out, not as retellings.

This last bit and Karsa's daughters intrigued me the most. I think they are going to welcome daddy home and I cannot wait to see that reunion. I have a feeling they are going to end up being pretty bad ass. :folken: