[Quick~]

Just thought I'd make a little thread about something that sort of struck me whilst reading NoK regarding Artan/Tay (anyone else find it amusing how Dancer called him that?).

Firstly we had Gardens of the Moon where he confronts Moons Spawn head on in a direct mage battle and based on the interactions there it appears he knows little of Anomander.

Now with his standing as a high mage and knowledge of other ascendants/gods this seemed rather odd.

In NoK we have some more hints into what Tay knows when he's revealed to be on basically first name terms with Agayla (in all likelihood the weaver of life) and if I remember rightly some stuff about the QoD. Anyway what kinda cemented my theory was when Tay exclaims about how "not even Osserc..." could have held back the storm the fisherman did. I mean from the information we've been given it seems certain someone like Rake would be at least a match for Osserc.

This kind of seems like a throw away line on its own but I thought it was a nice touch to cement perhaps how Tay is more involved with the houses of life, light than with those of death and dark. It'd certainly explain a lot of his apparent oversights and gaps in his knowledge during the encounter with Rake if this was the case.

So yeah, that was about it o-o

[Aptorian]

It doesn't really explain anything.

Most of us have filed away the monumentus fnck-up at Pale to GotMisms and just perhaps, Tay having an enormous ego. Anyway you put it, it's just not logical that Tay, or one of the other commander or mages for that matter, didn't pick up on the danger of messing with Rake long before Pale.

[Quick~]

aww apt, raining on my parade to attribute meaning where there might not have been any D:

I guess I just like trying to patch holes xD

[pastures]

well isn't he a fire mage? so obviously being a high mage of fire he would know about HH Light and Osserc. Osserc would pretty much be his patron god wouldnt it, seeing as how the evolution of the human warrens stem from the elder?

[Optimus Prime]

Also, in GotM, Rake even mentions how he had never fully committed himself in all his scraps with the Empire.

There is obviously more to Tay than we know...but he could just be wrong in his assumption about Osserc's power or abilities.

[ShadowOwl]

Tay was a high priest of D'rek, the Worm of Autumn -isn't that the opposite of light and life?

[Optimus Prime]

I'm pretty sure Tay uses more than one warren...maybe not as many as QB...but definitely more than one warren.

[Mentalist]

ShadowOwl;260322 said:

Tay was a high priest of D'riss, the Worm of Autumn -isn't that the opposite of light and life?

Correction

D'rek--the worm of Autumn

D'riss/Triss -- Queen of Dreams, High house Life

Tay was the High Priest of D'rek
He also used Higth Telas warren against Kallor in MoI--the warren of fire.

[Optimus Prime]

That is also what he uses against the Pannion Mages at the end of MoI, no? Those rolling waves of sorcery he blasts at them are Telas, I believe.

[pastures]

i blive all good mages can use multiple warrens, although they may not be as skilled in it as a sole practitioner might be. there have been other instances where mages use multiple warrens (they are all connected anyway) e.g. Hairlock, Brood, Trygalle Trading Guild, Emancipor's masters i think, and of course that guy who can use ALL the warrens, etc. I believe all high mages can use multiple warrens.

that said, i think his specialty is Light and light aspected warrens (fire, life, etc), hence his familiarity with Osserc.

[Holsety]

pastures;260418 said:

i blive all good mages can use multiple warrens, although they may not be as skilled in it as a sole practitioner might be. there have been other instances where mages use multiple warrens (they are all connected anyway) e.g. Hairlock, Brood, Trygalle Trading Guild, Emancipor's masters i think, and of course that guy who can use ALL the warrens, etc. I believe all high mages can use multiple warrens.

that said, i think his specialty is Light and light aspected warrens (fire, life, etc), hence his familiarity with Osserc.

BTW is there a strict difference between normal and "high" warrens? For instance there are Denul healers and then there are "High" denul healers. Does "high denul" just mean a high mage using denul? Or is there some other distinguishing factor?

What the hell makes a high mage anyway?

[Silencer]

High Mage - someone with incredible reserves of power (i.e. can blast a lot/for a long time) or someone with incredible mastery of the warren, either through use, study or other means.
"High" warrens are simply a way of differentiating the skill going into it - so basically a High Mage using their main warren would be using High x. Although not necessarily. A High Denul healer can heal worse wounds, better, faster. Simply put.
As to most good mages having multiple warrens - not true. Most of the mages we have seen are exceptional. We are looking at a huge convergence of power here - hence QB, CG, AR, etc. all being involved. Look at Tattersail. In GotM, she can only use one, despite having been offered the position of High Mage. Tay can only use a couple of warrens - Telas and Thyr, although I believe they are both High. He can also call on the power of D'rek, as he is still a priest of said God.

[pastures]

I think Tattersail is an exception to the High Magery - multiple warrens thing. In fact, her mastery of the warrens does not lead me to believe she is worthy of the title. The only thing that warrants that is her sensitivity to the Deck. That can be construed as multiple warrens, by the way.

[Mentalist]

We get a number of hight mages that got de-souled by QB in MoI--we don't know lots about them, but htey could be a 1-warren type mages. I'm fairly certain High priests would be 1-warren mules....

[Silencer]

Were they High Mages though?
I recall QB being called a 'middling wizard', so it's not necessary that they were all HM;s. (That being said, the Serc guy could pull storms down, so he would be pretty mean).

I disagree with the 'all High Mages have multiple warrens theory'. Certainly, the majority of them wouldn't have several High warrens. Maybe they know something from the other warrens, can access them, and channel quite a bit of power through them....but even those are very unlikely 'maybe's' in my book.

There is no doubt about it, Tayschrenn is a very powerful individual. Somewhat special too. He isn't exactly Quick Ben, but still.....and Beak wasn't a practitioner of "High" anything. He had lots of warrens, but didn't have heaps of skill or power with them.
Who else have we seen? Kellanved can do all the shadow/illusion aspected warrens now....but he is the God of Shadow. So that's not fair.
In general, one could say that multiple warrens are a trade-off against one High warren, unless you cheat like Quick, or are really good like Tay.

[Aptorian]

From the wiki:

Quote

His body holds 12 souls

Kebharla, she was more a scholar than a mage (MoIp.356)
2 further bodies (un-named)
Renisha, a sorcerer of High Meanas
Keluger, A Septime Priest of D'riss, the Worm of Autumn
Narkal, the warrior-mage, sworn to Fenner and aspirant to the god's Mortal Sword
Ullan, the Soletaken priestess of Soliel
__Set'alahd Crool,__a Jhag half blood who'd once driven Dassem Ultor back half a dozen steps in furious counter attack, his sword shining with the blessing of some unknown ascendant.
Etra, a mistress of the Rashan warren
Birith'erah, mage of the Serc warren who could pull storms down from the sky
Gellid, witch of the Tennes warren

[Osseric's mortal sword]

What does the word "septime (priest of D'riss)" mean in that context? Something to do with 7?

[Aptorian]

Perhaps it's the opposite of septarch

[Lisheo]

High Mages: Perhaps they tap a part of the warren that other mages cannot use? We've seen how single warrens have slightly different aspects eg Hood can be used for summoning and death magic. Maybe High Telas is very very fiery lol.

Use of different warrens by a single individual: Correct me if Im wrong,but I think its all about visualisation. Tattersail visualised the use of magic as ONE warren choosing its practitioner, as does Seren Padac and Kulp, I believe. Whereas Beak sees them all as candles that can be lit at will. Tays seems to understand the natures of warrens very well, as does QB. Bottle was taught with spirit magic, so he has another different view of things. Hairlock used Chaos without the aid of the CG, so is it safe to assume once you understand the nature of the warrens and how chaos flows between em, you can access more...?

[Traveller]

'.....and Beak wasn't a practitioner of "High" anything. He had lots of warrens, but didn't have heaps of skill or power with them.'

Whaaat?! Beak was a natural high mage.. he was incredibly powerful, he just hadn't been taught about his limits. Even Fiddler doubts that saving the bonehunters was worth his life... with tuition from someone like QB, he could have wiped the floor with anyone.