[caladanbrood]

So if a waiter goes out for a meal, does he have to tip - surely he wouldn't have enough money;)

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Yes it is. The thing is, in the USA minimum wage isn't enough to support more than one poor person. If you're trying to support a kid or something, you're screwed. Minimum wage is fine for a highschool kid living with his parents, but for an adult to live anything but the barest existence on it isn't going to happen.

Plus,, it's just the way it is. Waitresses and bartenders get tipped. So do cabs, bellhops, hotel cleaning staff, and baristas if you order something crazy.

[Optimus Prime]

When I go to a restaurant....I'm thinking to myself...

"Ok...if the waitress is a normal, solid server...and the bill is 50 dollars...I'll tip at least 10 dollars, which is 20 percent."

My thinking on this is, as others have stated, many servers/waitresses make $2.35 an hour or something like that...so without tips...they would be destitute. Yet even the guys that work with me...who make minimum wage...which in California is $8 an hour right now...need tips. 8 bucks an hour is not a livable income in Southern California.

Living here isn't cheap. Nothing is cheap in California.

I've found that people who have worked in the service industry tip much better of course.

[Shinrei]

People, economics is a relative system. When I go to Europe, especially the UK, my eyes bulge out at the prices on the menu. Why? Because they pay their help a full wage, and in order to do so, they charge more. The customer isn't "held ransom" to tip, because the prices on the menu will generally be cheaper in the US. It all evens out in the end.

Sales tax where I live is 5.5%. That isn't included on the menu price, any more than the tip is. But it's something a restaurant goer is expected to pay.

For those of you who are outraged at restaurant businesses not paying a decent wage, the truth of the matter is the good tippers outweigh the bad for the most part. That means, instead of getting some crappy government mandated minimum wage, I manage to make ok money. And the fact that I have to work hard to give extra good service to get it makes sense to me.

Also, because it is part of the culture, i.e. taught, observed and expected, you wont' find many Americans bristling at the thought of tipping like many of the people on this thread are.

And Cougar your definition of attitude is the same as mine, but it sounds like you are applying it to a single individual (me), while I am regarding a "way of thinking or disposition" as it applies to the society I live in. And in my society/country/culture, 10% is a bad tip. So in more simple terms, it isn't MY attitude that says 10% is a bad tip, it is the attitude of the service industry in the USA that 10% is a bad tip.

[Cougar]

I'm clearly talking about the disposition of US society as a whole not you SnS, I'm not into having a personal shot at people

Nevertheless the reason it's so reprehensible an idea to us Europeans is because if you think through the original idea behind tipping the US model has moved away from this. The actual price of the food and tip is irrelevant, and no one is objecting to paying the actual tip, it is the idea that the tip is effectively 'compulsory' or a pressumed part of the price, rather than being a bonus for excellent service.

If the waitress gets to keep the tip then the seller must be making enough back from the sale of the food to cover his costs and overheads and make a profit this is the same in both US and Europe. The difference is the US employer is paying very little and expecting the customer to make up the shortfall in what he pays through the tip, in the UK you'd pay more for the food but the staff wages are factored into the cost. They still get paid poorly so I'd always put in a reasonable tip dependent on service though.

If people know about it and accept it in the states, I suppose it doesn't make any difference, but in reality, it's borderline whether this is really a tip in the true sense at all.

Oh and nobody gets a tip for carrying my bags, I'm well capable of doing that myself.

[Shinrei]

Fair enough Cougar, I'm sorry I misunderstood your original comment.

In answer to several of you who speak about tipping as being reprehensible, I just have to defend it by saying that the tipping culture of restaurants has helped pay my way through my degree. If my only option was to be working for a minimum wage, which at best would be about $7.00 an hour, I would be in a rather bad situation financially. As such, monetarily, restaurant jobs are generally more coveted than working in the many minimum wage jobs out there like McDonalds or in retail somewhere. So, if I I can just lay it out in terms like this:

Tipping is good because
A) Servers can potentially do better on tips than they could on minimum wage jobs.
Restaurants can keep costs down and that keeps prices on the menu lower and helps make the restaurant successful (which means it can continue to exist and provide jobs).
C) Service should theoretically be better. As Mezla pointed out from personal experience, the places with bad service are the ones where the gratuity is guaranteed.

The overwhelming negative coming from the non-north americans on this thread is from the consumer standpoint, i.e., I don't like the fact that I have to shell out more money above the listed menu price for my server. This is valid coming from countries that do not have this tipping culture. However, I keep the hope that international travelers, where ever they are going, do their best to comply with the local customs. I DON'T tip when I'm in Japan, because there it would be seen as insulting, even if the service provided is 5 stars.

[paladin]

its not like you're paying any different. euro countries just factor the tip into the price so it can be taxed easily. which is the other bonus to the us method, people have to claim their tips, but most people only claim a small percentage, giving them way more money in the long run by not being taxed on it

[Cougar]

At least I won't make any tipping faux pas next time I'm in the 'states:)

I wonder if the difference in tipping cultures is down to Europeans being old countries riven with 1000 year old aristocracies and (comparatively) rigid class systems, where silent, perfect service was demanded by middle and upper classes without a second thought. America doesn't have this same bourgoise stick jammed up it's arse..sorry ASS,....just a thought, I'm not going to write a thesis on it!

[Coco with marshmallows]

Cougar;259030 said:

I wonder if the difference in tipping cultures is down to Europeans being old countries riven with 1000 year old aristocracies and (comparatively) rigid class systems, where silent, perfect service was demanded by middle and upper classes without a second thought.

Intriguing idea, but i'd be more inclined to also include that the owners of restaurants were living the capitalist dream of minimising staff costs as well. In this case by passing the cost directly onto the clients through the expectation of tipping.

essentially, you could work your arse off all night, and end up with sweet F.A. (not Forkrul Assail, the other one) if there were no tips to be had.

I worked in a cocktail bar that paid people minimum wage in glasgow (significantly less than Mcdonalds, etc) because we were expected to make up the difference i tips. I had some horrendous nights there, and came to truly despise non-tippers. Also, i have since tipped quite well when i go out.

Having said that, one question I have for those in the US is where do you draw the line? you're not going to tip inMcdonald's, but the staff there are paid minimum wage also, correct?

[ch'arlz]

Cocoreturns;259140 said:

Having said that, one question I have for those in the US is where do you draw the line? you're not going to tip inMcdonald's, but the staff there are paid minimum wage also, correct?

staff at McDonalds is all behind the counter. they don't get tipped.

[Aptorian]

Actually, at a McDonalds. when there's a lot of customers, we'd come down to the table or the parking lot with the food.

[Skywalker]

McDonalds here in the US has some of the worst service. As does Burger King... make that all fast food outlets with 'self service'.

In my experience at least, the folks behind the counter are quite distracted and keep their eye on the counters for the drive-through windows at the expense of walk-in customers.

The greeting/ small talk/ service with a smile is too scripted and perfunctory to be genuine... and more often than not, when you change your mind/ can't make up your mind/ complain how long your order is taking, you actually get impatience and sass in response.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

The standard accepted practice is that fast food workers don't get tipped. I suppose it's because they provide very little service, you take your own food to your table and clean up after yourself. Everybody there is a cashier, cook, or manager, no servers so no tipping. Interestingly enough, non-burger fast food sandwich places (Subway, Quiznos, Blimpie, Mr Goodsense, JImmie Johns, etc) typically have tip jars. I don't buy it that they should be tipped for making me a sub, but the guy who makes me a burger shouldn't. Strange.

[paladin]

because sub places customize the order to what you want. they're doing you a service when they build the sandwich to your custom specs. or at least that makes sense to me, not that i tip them very often, but on occassion for a difficult order i will

[Zanth13]

ch said:

staff at McDonalds is all behind the counter. they don't get tipped.

I got tipped at least once while working at Mcdonalds back in high school

It was this lady who was so impressed with my service she counted out like 1.34$ in change and gave it to me

It was just because I was being extra charming that day :cool:


~zanth tries to excel at everything he does... (except spelling and running)

[Flawed]

It is part of English society i feel but not in the same way.

Tipping is done because you receive a service that is exemplary and your needs were catered or looked after in a good / right way. Its not a.......

" Ta you carried my bags for me, here have a tenner "

Its more a......

" Yes you carried my bags but you work here. Its your job......... What?! the restaurant down the road is excellent and you can get me a table? Brilliant have a tenner! "

that's the difference.

I know what i mean

[Nequam]

Aptorian;256647 said:

Well we also pay around 55-65% in taxes and the price of food and gas has been rising steadily of late.

How much are you guys paying for a gallon of gas...or whatever you measure it in? Also, does your government supply medical insurance and the like? How are your civil works projects? (I'm not trying to make a point or anything, I'm just curious.) Because if you guys get better things back from your government that taxes supply than it was worth it right?

I know that we don't really see much from our tax dollars around my area. Except police officers and what not I guess.

...Oh yeah, tips.
Personally I've never went to restraunt and not given at least 10% tip. (except one time when I didn't bring enough money...I left some starburst instead ) I've almost always had good service though. I rarely ever tip in any other situations however.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

For me to not leave a tip at all in a restaurant the service has to be so bad ass to be offensive. A while ago I had a waiter, who was already providing some of the worst service ever, sat down at my table. This was after I had asked him for something. He sat there for several minutes, complaining about how hard he was working. As he got up to leave, he called one of the waitress a bitch because she told him to get to work. He got no tip.

[Anomander Rake]

This thread is very fascinating.

There is a big difference in service culture I guess in UK compared to North America.

Pubs, clubs - in UK they don't tip, because if you want a drink you go to the bar and order it from the person behind the bar. So we don't have people bringing the drink to you.

Hotels - Well I can't say I've been to a hotel (stayed at hotels costing ~£150 a night, don't know about higher ones that that) where they carry your bags, plus I am more than capable to carry my own bags anyway. Also if eating at the hotel restuarant, the prices on the menu are a rip-off, if you where to go to a restaurant down the street you could get the food 75% cheaper.

I guess in the UK, the way we think is that the person who is serving you, it is part of their job and that is what they are getting paid for from their employer, and their employer is in turn charging us for the food appropriately that the employer is able to pay his staff and make some profit. The ONLY time a customer may tip is if they were so impressed by the person serving them, that they wanted to give their thanks and appreciation, which comes back to the original purpose of the tip.

The problem with the tipping culture in the US is that it can create hostilities and hate towards a customer who doesn't tip, who may not have the means to fork out £10 pounds (that's a crazy amount, could get 2 pizza's for that ) etc and is only having this meal once in a blue moon. If I was to go to the US and eat there, I would still have the UK mentality that the price we are paying for the food is paying for the service and food that we are recieving. But then again there is a reason why Britain is called "Rip-off Britain", and why we feel the right that the amount we are paying for the food is more than enough for everything that is being provided while at the restaurant, whereas in the US if the food is much cheaper, we may well be inclined tip.

Thing is as someone mentioned earlier, if you are tipping because you feel sorry for the person who is serving you because they are getting such a low wage, then it becomes charity really and not a tip.

lol, it seems that a whole spew of jobs have been created in the US based on the tipping culture that we don't particularly have in UK, e.g. A Bag carrier at hotel, waitresses bringing you the drink from the bar etc.

[Skywalker]

Us Indians (dots not feathers) get a bad rap when it comes to tipping.

Well... for the record, I tipped a pizza delivery dude 20% last night. So there.

@ Anomander Rake - I always feel grumpy about tipping in hotels... you are expected to tip folks that barely even serve you. I mean the room service guy that brings up a breakfast or something has only carried it from the kitchens to your room. What do we tip him for? Not spilling anything? Then there are the doormen and valets... don't get me started on the valets. Are we tipping them for not scratching our car? Is it like insurance against voluntary defacement of your property?

The other place I hate to tip is on casino floors. I mean the whole charm of casinos for me is that I get free booze even as I am losing my money to the house! So I do grudge the waitress that gets them to me too late the $1