[Cougar]

I've been to France more times than I can count and they definitely take tips. The bottom line is from what you guys are saying is that hotels and restaurants in the US take advantage of a tipping culture to pay piss poor wages.

@ Coco/Xander 1 US Gallon is 3.8 litres so a gallon of petrol in the UK in dollars would be about $8.00.

A 3 bed house in Scunthorpe, which is just about as cheap in rent as you can get in the UK is c.$1300 per month plus $200 council tax and about $200 per month for gas,leccy and water. In the centre of manchester a small flat would be about $1000 pcm.

Loaf of bread c$2.00, pint of milk $1.50. Average cost of a house = $400,000 at least.

How does that compare to the cost of living in the US

[Shinrei]

I can't speak as to why the culture is to tip in restaurants in the US. My friend once said the idea might be to encourage better service, since how much money you actually make is based on how well you treat the customer.

Because I'm in grad school I wait tables to make ends meet. Standard wage for a server is $2.35. Yes, that is well below the governmentally mandated minimum wage, but that's because money from tips is expected. AND, as someone said earlier, I do report my tip money to the government to be taxed.

And guess what, I give the best service I can possibly provide (and I work at a pretty fancy restaurant), because if I don't get tipped, I don't pay rent.

In my experience, Chinese and Indians (dots not feathers) are the worst tippers, although some couple speaking an Eastern European language who were in my restaurant tonight left me 10%. Not terrible, but unless I did something to deserve it anything less than 15% is just a "bad customer".

[Zanth13]

Shinrei no Shintai;257528 said:

I can't speak as to why the culture is to tip in restaurants in the US. My friend once said the idea might be to encourage better service, since how much money you actually make is based on how well you treat the customer.

Because I'm in grad school I wait tables to make ends meet. Standard wage for a server is $2.35. Yes, that is well below the governmentally mandated minimum wage, but that's because money from tips is expected. AND, as someone said earlier, I do report my tip money to the government to be taxed.

And guess what, I give the best service I can possibly provide (and I work at a pretty fancy restaurant), because if I don't get tipped, I don't pay rent.

In my experience, Chinese and Indians (dots not feathers) are the worst tippers, although some couple speaking an Eastern European language who were in my restaurant tonight left me 10%. Not terrible, but unless I did something to deserve it anything less than 15% is just a "bad customer".

Before my first deployment, when me and my buddies would go out, we would pick a different place each week usually...

We would always tip in excess... I dont know why we did, but the waiter/waitress (esp if cute) would always get like a 110 % tip cuz each of us would throw in from 10 to 20 dollars (pure tip) so the waiter/waitress could walk away with 70-100 dollar tip

[Cougar]

Shinrei no Shintai;257528 said:

...although some couple speaking an Eastern European language who were in my restaurant tonight left me 10%. Not terrible, but unless I did something to deserve it anything less than 15% is just a "bad customer".

I think this attitude is the key point in the debate, in the UK, and I've worked in restaraunts, for someone to be a bad customer they would have to be doing something wrong, not just giving you what would be regarded as a resonable tip. 10% is standard, 15% is for good.

I would only go higher if I was in some cheap place. When you are paying £200 (for 2) in a restaraunt the service will be silver star (well it bloody better be) as standard and 10-15% tip is a good chunk of cash. If it was, like £15 I'd happily sling in a £5 for good service, always in change, never on the credit card, so you know it goes to the staff.

I've experienced directly the tendency to berate you for not leaving a tip, I oressume that the guy thought because I am English he would humilate me into leaving more of a tip by loudly picking up on me 'only' leaving 12ish% by shouting after "was there something wrong with the service" in a crowded restaraunt NB: this tactic probably only works with weak arsed members of the repressed middle classes who'll do anything to avoid a scene!!

I replied (this scene may not be verbatim)
"You are demonstrating exactly the attitude which compelled me to leave you a standard tip" (I'm paraphrasing here) at which point I politley offered the gentleman the opportunity to have his "teeth smashed down his throat", and retired for the evening/made a hasty retreat;)

[Shinrei]

Cougar, it's not an "attitude". In the states if service is good (I like to believe I give excellent) 15% is expected. THe reason for less could be one of many things:

1) Not understanding that tipping 15% is the culture.
2) Not understanding that I make $2.35 an hour.
3) Being cheap.
4) Being bad at Math.

just to name a few. This isn't my "attitude", it's how tipping works in US restaurants.

Edited to add: I am not defending bad service by the way. THere is no obligation to tip 15% if the service is awful. I'm a big tipper, since I know how important it is to wait staff, but if the service is crap, I will leave 5% or even nothing if the situation warrents it.

And, I'd get fired from my job if I challenged a customer on the tip they left me so you won't see me doing that. That's just tacky.

[Lost Marine]

@Apt, I live in a city of about 40,000 people, I'm maybe ten miles outside town. This is actually a fairly pricey house for the region, most sell for around 120k or less. Prices of living vary so much in the US from state to state that you can't really say that there is a national standard of living. In fact national corporations actually adjust salaries depending on what part of the country you live in to compensate for this.

Even the military does this, when I was stationed in Hawaii I made more then someone stationed in North Carolina would make.

Again this is one of those things were the sheer size of the US comes into play. If you want to compare the US to anything it has to be to Europe as a whole.

[Aptorian]

This makes sense.

Even tiny Denmark has such fluctuations. You can buy a farm for 30.000 pounds in the south and various other "far away" areas of Denmark while a small house can cost 1.000.000 pounds or more in the most popular areas. And just to clarify 1.000.000 pounds is what people on average makes in 30 years here.

[Cougar]

Shinrei no Shintai;257842 said:

Cougar, it's not an "attitude". In the states if service is good (I like to believe I give excellent) 15% is expected. This isn't my "attitude", it's how tipping works in US restaurants.

I think we are falling into a linguistic trap here: I am using 'attitude' in the true sense to mean an outlook, or a way of thinking or a disposition, without having a positive or negative presumption.

SnS you seem to have assumed I'm using it in the more modern abreviated sense: ie "attitude" means "bad/poor attitude". I'm not; by attitude I simply mean the difference in the outlook on tipping in the states.

You consider a customer a 'bad customer' based on a poor tip, in the UK this is not the case as tipping is not essential to making a living from a waiting job. I think it all comes down to this fact, if you made a reasonable wage as standard then tips would be a bonus not an essential element of your wage.

I am astonished that businesses are allowed to get away with this, expecting people to make up a decent wage from what is essentially a discretionary bonus seems morally and socially reprehensible.

Oh and the guy who shouted after me was in New Jersey, I believe they are renowned for this sort of uncouth behaviour??

[caladanbrood]

Shinrei no Shintai;257842 said:

Cougar, it's not an "attitude". In the states if service is good (I like to believe I give excellent) 15% is expected. THe reason for less could be one of many things:

1) Not understanding that tipping 15% is the culture.
2) Not understanding that I make $2.35 an hour.
3) Being cheap.
4) Being bad at Math.

just to name a few. This isn't my "attitude", it's how tipping works in US restaurants.

Edited to add: I am not defending bad service by the way. THere is no obligation to tip 15% if the service is awful. I'm a big tipper, since I know how important it is to wait staff, but if the service is crap, I will leave 5% or even nothing if the situation warrents it.

Aye, the main difference being that we would generally only tip if the service was excellent. So your run-of-the-mill average service would get no tip, because it was nothing special, even if there was nothing specifically wrong with it.

And of course everyone believes that the service they provide is good. Doesn't mean they're always right;)

[Mezla PigDog]

My biggest tipping gripe is that anywhere with a service charge included always has terrible service. I never purposefully go to such places. It's not like their menu is any cheaper because of it, but we have no choice but to pay an extra 10%.

[Obdigore]

The only time I see a 'service charge' on top of the food/drink charges, are when your party is 8+. That is pretty common here in Minnesota.

@the cost of things....
I currently pay 1300$ plus utils for renting a 2bedroom house. I can go 10 miles SE, and houses cost between 800,000-2,200,00, and then go 10 miles west of that, and they cost 150,00-400,000. In the US, at least in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota, US. It is very much based on where you are geographicaly, and financially for the pricing market.

If I get REALLY great service, I will often leave a large tip, and ask to speak to the manager before I leave, and comment on it. Most of the time noone tells the managers of places that it was really great service if it was really great, I often get a part of the meal comped for the feedback as well, which is cool.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I think the thing to get out of all this is if you're in the States, tip or look like the worst sort of prick. The people don't care if you aren't expected to tip in Europe, you're not in Europe, you're somewhere where you tip.

For food, I tip 15% for standard service, 20% for good service, and 10% for bad service. If it's horrible service, I will stiff someone, but I've only gotten service that bad twice i think. Waitresses do not even make minimum wage here. They get something like 2.50$ an hour.

Tip your bartender. If you run a tab, do about 15%. Bar waitresses need to be tipped too. Sometimes they are expecting too much. I worked at a club and heard one of the girls say she felt she deserved a dollar a beer. That is excessive.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Is there no minimum wage law in the US? If not, that's barbaric. I mean, as a student doing a part time holiday job, temping in a low paid position, I get $15US after tax. How could someone live off of $2.50 an hour? Those are slave wages in my view, surely the govt should step in?

[caladanbrood]

Nearly 50% of the world lives on $2 per day...

Thats what I've learned so far in my three environmental engineerign lectures this semester

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Yeah but I mean in the US. Relative costs and so on.

[paladin]

there is a min wage law in the US, and some states have higher min wages, and some cities and counties have even higher min wages.

but, there are some workarounds. people that work for tips(like waitresses) have lower minimum wages(because tips make up the majority of their income). i also believe that employees that work on commission operate in the same manner.

waitressing a decent restaurant or bartending a popular bar can generate lots of tip money. i know some waitresses that make 30-50k yearly. i know some bartenders that make over 100k yearly.

hard work pays off in the service industry, and that is how work should be designed. if you dont produce, you're cut.

[caladanbrood]

paladin;258648 said:

hard work pays off in the service industry, and that is how work should be designed. if you dont produce, you're cut.

Absolutely, and that's how it should be. But getting paid the kind of wage that means you can't actually live without tips just completely ruins the point of tips... it's basically holding the customers to randsom, saying they have to tip otherwise the person serving them won't be able to affort their rent/food etc. Turns the whole principle on its head.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

At that point, it becomes charity, which sort of defeats the purpose of working for a living...

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Thelomen Toblerone;258630 said:

Is there no minimum wage law in the US? If not, that's barbaric. I mean, as a student doing a part time holiday job, temping in a low paid position, I get $15US after tax. How could someone live off of $2.50 an hour? Those are slave wages in my view, surely the govt should step in?

You can't live on that. It's legal because it's a position that is expected to make the majority of their money from tips. If your tips plus the minimal salary don't at least give you the minimum wage, the employer is obligated to pay you the difference.

[Menandore]

Ok, this is making no sense. So there is a minimum wage and presumably it's enough to live of right? So you're arguing that people get