[worry]

Out of curiosity, is minimum wage a living wage in other countries? Because in the US it is certainly not.

[Tapper]

worrywort, on 10 June 2010 - 09:55 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, is minimum wage a living wage in other countries? Because in the US it is certainly not.

It is here. You probably won't be able to go on a holiday or own a car, but minimumwage is pretty good. The minimumwage for a 36 hour job is € 9,02 gross, which means € 7,61 net.
EDIT: This is for adults (20+ I think).

On a monthly basis, that is 1187,00 clean, which is not a whole lot (although Gothos will kill me for saying that) but if you live clean and cheap (say, 400 a month for rent, a normal figure for, for example, a student room), you'll have some cash left for insurance (€80-100 a month, compulsory), gas, water and electricity, your phone, television, internet, clothing, food and the occassional evening out.

EDIT: the problem starts mostly when a job at minimumwage is part-time. Then, you're fucked, and may rake in more cash by not working but by drawing government support.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 10 June 2010 - 10:19 PM

[Jusentantaka]

Tapper, on 10 June 2010 - 10:16 PM, said:

worrywort, on 10 June 2010 - 09:55 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, is minimum wage a living wage in other countries? Because in the US it is certainly not.

It is here. You probably won't be able to go on a holiday or own a car, but minimumwage is pretty good. The minimumwage for a 36 hour job is € 9,02 gross, which means € 7,61 net.
EDIT: This is for adults (20+ I think).

This is actually the 'theoretical' minimum living wage for most of the US, ~$11 an hour (though with a 40hr work week), because with it you can have a car, gas money and the rest you mentioned. So long as you don't live in a city or have to support anyone but yourself.

[Tapper]

Well, so basically, it is a fairly humane salary.
Then again, you can't afford a car of it, as the shit is taxed out of petrol here.

[Aristai]

H.D., on 10 June 2010 - 09:45 PM, said:

Why punish the waiter for the cook's fuckup? He's getting paid a minimum wage no matter what in both countries right? Over here, you'd send it back and gauge your tip on how the server behaved during the situation.

You do seem to take a very personal affront to this, and it's kind of mind-boggling, Mac. If I go over to England, I'll know not to tip at pubs, and to only tip for exceptional service at restaurants thanks to this thread.

Because tipping is as varied and subjective as the average person's intelligence. People can leave retardedly large tips for no good reason at all, and on the flip side leave pennies cause they don't like your new hair style. It's really a crap shoot. Do some men tip more based on cleveage shown? Maybe. And as been mentioned before it's common practise for cooks and other positions to still recieve part of a tip-out on top of their wage.

Anyhow, it is what it is. Not about to change anytime soon in North America...

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

And once again we're back to the moral of the thread: Regardless of whether or not tipping is the best system, or if you agree with it or not, behave in an appropriate manner for the culture in which you find yourself. This means that if you're in the usa, TIP. It doesn't matter if you agree with it, you ARE an asshole if you don't. On the flip side, if you are an American visiting the UK, do not insist on tipping because it's how you do it back home. You will also look like an asshole. If you end up in some wierd hypothetical country where it is expected that you leave old nail clippings as a tip, bust out the clippers. When in Rome and all that.

[Macros]

we're discussing the tipping culture, not whether we tip, its been clearly established that I do tip

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Oh, I thought we were still on if you should tip or not.

We're supposed to read other people's posts?

[Macros]

I don't bother with it, takes too much time.

[Tsundoku]

Thread Zombie!

An article from today in Australia. The title is a bit rude though, definitely not objective:

-------------------------------

http://www.news.com....i-1225929449411

Why Australia is a nation of tight misers

* By Daryl Passmore
* From: The Sunday Telegraph
* September 26, 2010 4:01AM

Despite having a strong economy, Australians don't like handing over tips / AAP Source: AAP

* Australians rarely tip for good service - poll
* Generation Y are the biggest tippers
* Majority of people hand over small change
* Join us over on Facebook | Twitter

HERE'S a tip: Australia is a nation of penny-pinchers when it comes to rewarding good service.

In fact, two-thirds of people surveyed say they never, or very rarely, give tips.

And when we do, it's likely to be just loose change.

"Aussies are poor tippers even when the economy is going well," researcher Mark McCrindle said. "But in this financial downturn, the news for hospitality staff is not good."

For many, it's not a question of being mean but of philosophy.

Thirty-five per cent of people argue that tipping fuels the expectations of people wanting "something for nothing" and five out of six people say it is simply unnecessary in Australia.

"The most common responses were that they did not believe in tipping, that costs for staff and services were already built into the prices we pay, and that inflation and the increased costs of living made tipping an unviable custom," Mr McCrindle said.

His company sought the views of 532 people nationwide through its regular surveys.

One respondent said: "In other countries, tipping is essential to a good night's pay; here, it's really icing on an already well-covered cake."

Another said: "Why should people get extra money if they're already paid for what they do?"

Surprisingly, Generation Y - often portrayed as a self-focused "me" group - are actually more frequent tippers. People aged 16 to 30 are almost twice as likely to tip frequently or regularly than baby-boomers.

"Additionally, Gen Y-ers are the most thoughtful tippers in that they consider a wider range of factors related to the service they receive before handing over their cash," Mr McCrindle said.

"However, Gen Y-ers prefer to keep it cheap and cheerful, as they're the least likely generation to tip above $10."

Asked the size of the biggest tip they had ever given, only 18 per cent of people of all ages said it was more than $25.

Half gave a figure between $10 and $20 and more than a quarter of people have never parted with more than $5.

"This suggests tipping in this country is predominantly limited to handing over spare change, spare notes or rounding the bill up to the nearest zero," Mr McCrindle said.

"While a number of Australians surveyed did not tip under any circumstances, the majority were prepared to - but only for exceptional service."

When we do tip, it is most likely to be at cafes and restaurants. Wait staff (83 per cent) are three times more likely to receive something than bar staff.

Only 19 per cent said they had tipped hotel concierges and just nine per cent rewarded doormen.

----------------------------------

Here is one of the more interesting comments:

Robynsway Posted at 4:48 AM Today

In the US, income for service is linked to quality of service provided (tipping) so that the employer doesn't have to pay the full wage. In 1989, in the US, I waitressed (I used to be an Aust'n lawyer) for $1.83 per hour. I was taxed as if I had made the minimum wage in tips (which was more than $1.83/hr at that time) plus made an additional 15% (which I didn't make). In contrast, Australian wages abide by its strong labour laws. There is no need to tip. Do NOT get caught up in this "tipping" nonsense. It's demeaning for the workers. Workers should do good work because it's their job to do so, or because they will otherwise get fired. US good deeds only get done if there is an extra monetary award. In the US, a tip is expected even getting a coffee from Starbucks, yet that staff is paid above minimum wage, and the stuff comes out of a pot. It has become an expectation without being accompanied by extra service. And what if I don't want the extra service; do I still tip? Don't go there, Australia! It's an American company's (opening up a branch in Australia) ploy not have to pay standard wages in Australia. Service in Aust is more friendly than the US, even w/o tips.

This post has been edited by Sombra: 26 September 2010 - 03:12 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

Who tips at a Starbucks? That's like fast-food, you place an order, get it at the counter. They might have a tip-jar there, but for fucks sake don't tip them.

[Vengeance]

You know who else has a tip jar. The bum down at the on ramp of the freeway. Like starbucks don't give him any money.

[Shinrei]

Quote

It's demeaning for the workers.

Whatever.

Quote

Workers should do good work because it's their job to do so, or because they will otherwise get fired.

You can be fired even when you work for tips. And having money as a reward does not mean there is no intrinsic reward for hardwork. It's demeaning (see what I did there), for this poster to assume that Americans don't take pride in their work.

Quote

US good deeds only get done if there is an extra monetary award.

Gross generalization. That's like saying Aussies only do something if there's booze involved.

Oh...wait....

[Tapper]

H.D., on 26 September 2010 - 03:24 AM, said:

Who tips at a Starbucks? That's like fast-food, you place an order, get it at the counter. They might have a tip-jar there, but for fucks sake don't tip them.

EDIT: it may be that in Australia, tipping expectations were different? If I read the article correctly, the comment was about the Aussie Starbucks branch. Anyway, I don't want to get burnt on that subject.


However, in all honesty, I had to ask Venge when to tip and when not as I was thoroughly confused with whether to tip or not in lunch rooms...

Anyway, now that I've sampled America, I would say the service I've experienced in places where i was expected to tip, was on par with the European countries I've visited. Funnily enough, I'd rate the service provided in, say, the local supermarket or the liquor/beer store we went to as way, way better than it is here.

The main difference between the behaviour of the waiting staff here and there was that I was asked whether I liked anything else with a far greater frequency in the States than I'm used to here in Europe...
Which, in a way, is logical, as the expected tip is a % of the total sum .

This post has been edited by Tapper: 26 September 2010 - 11:50 AM

[Shinrei]

I should've tipped you after you led me to Vengy's house. Damn, my bad. You were pretty nice/competent, too.

[Tapper]

Shinrei, on 26 September 2010 - 01:03 PM, said:

I should've tipped you after you led me to Vengy's house. Damn, my bad. You were pretty nice/competent, too.

Heh

Maybe if I had put on that bell boy uniform you were insisting whoever came to pick you up would wear....

[Terez]

I was surprised to see this thread was still alive. Sorry I missed all you guys in Chicago...that would have been fun! But I went to DragonCon instead...

[Vengeance]

Terez, on 27 September 2010 - 04:41 PM, said:

I was surprised to see this thread was still alive. Sorry I missed all you guys in Chicago...that would have been fun! But I went to DragonCon instead...

Boo... There is always next year..

[Tarcanus]

There are only a few places where I tip, and it's generally where I know the servers only make $2.50 an hour or something and they NEED tips to stay afloat. I don't tip at places like Quiznos, or McDonald's, etc. because I know their employees make the minimum wage. I survived on minimum wage for a while and they can, too, without tips. I also doubt I would tip a bellman or something of that nature because isn't bringing in your bags their job? How can they perform better service than just getting your bags to the right room? If they did a song or dance number that I enjoyed while we rode the elevator to the room, sure, I'd tip.

I don't know if it's been discussed yet in here, but does anyone else add to the tip for 'rent' when they've been sitting in the restaurant or whatever for a long time? A friend of mine and I used to sit in diners for hours and hours and tipped extra because we knew we had been taking that table from other patrons the waitress could've been getting tips from.

[Macros]

no

not joining in

just back from the states and the service was fucking awful, apart from McDonalds.

Only good service we got was in the stop in Toronto, oh wait that's in Canada.

Bar staff were as slow as a wet week and ignorant as hell for the most, and when I didn't tip/ left a small tip I got the dirtiest looks ever, as if my name was joseph and I offered to let their kids play in my basement.